Israel vs. Palestine, split off from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[PyramidHead]

I was really hoping AOC would have the guts to unequivocally defend Ilhan Omar's entirely accurate tweets about the Israel lobby, but she caved and applauded Omar for apologizing.

 

[Derec]

I was really hoping AOC would have the guts to unequivocally defend Ilhan Omar's entirely accurate tweets about the Israel lobby, but she caved and applauded Omar for apologizing.

 

[untermensche]

Israel is doing evil things.

Oppression and theft are evil.

I don't think it should take a god to get people to see that however.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I was really hoping AOC would have the guts to unequivocally defend Ilhan Omar's entirely accurate tweets about the Israel lobby, but she caved and applauded Omar for apologizing.

What's anti-semitic about that quote? Being against the actions of the government of Israel is not synonymous with being against Jews in general.

That's like saying that if you criticize the crackdowns of the Chinese government on dissidents it means you're a racist who hates asians.

 

[Elixir]

I was really hoping AOC would have the guts to unequivocally defend Ilhan Omar's entirely accurate tweets about the Israel lobby, but she caved and applauded Omar for apologizing.

What's anti-semitic about that quote? Being against the actions of the government of Israel is not synonymous with being against Jews in general.

That's like saying that if you criticize the crackdowns of the Chinese government on dissidents it means you're a racist who hates asians.

I know, right? Reminds me of how publishing anything critical of Trump make you un-American.

 

[funinspace]

I was really hoping AOC would have the guts to unequivocally defend Ilhan Omar's entirely accurate tweets about the Israel lobby, but she caved and applauded Omar for apologizing.

I'm fine with her quote there as well. The Israeli apartheid machinations in the West Bank is close enough to the funky work 'evil' in my book. The US sure didn't like it when South Africa was doing similar shit. Maybe she has said something anti-semitic, but I haven't seen it presented anywhere so far...not that I've been looking for it.

 

[Derec]

I'm fine with her quote there as well.

I expected you would be.

The Israeli apartheid machinations in the West Bank is close enough to the funky work 'evil' in my book.

You must be careful to distinguish West Bank from Gaza. They are two very different entities with different statuses, different governments and different issues.
This tweet by Omar was regarding Gaza in particular, and not West Bank. It is from 2012, when Israel yet again had to defend itself from an attack by Gaza, which is run by a terrorist group Hamas. For Omar, it is an "evil doing" for Israel to defend itself against Hamas. Let that sink in!
In 2005, Israel completely withdrew from Gaza, removing all soldiers and settlements. The result was an increase in mortar and rocket attacks and Hamas took over as the ruling power. That caused the naval blockade that is in effect currently. Hamas led three wars against Israel since then, in 2008, 2012, and 2014. Currently, Hamas is involved in low level attacks against the border with Israel where they organize riots in which grenades are being thrown across the border fence and there are infiltration units that attempt to cross the border on a regular basis. In addition, there are balloons with incendiary and explosive payloads sent across the border that have caused millions of economic and also environmental damage to the fields and nature areas along the Gaza envelope.


By the way, one reason why Israel can't leave West Bank (other than its disputed status) is that it cannot risk it becoming a terrorist entity like Gaza. If that were to happen, a much higher share of the Israeli population would be in the line of fire from even short range Qassam rockets like the cities of the Gaza envelope are right now.


The US sure didn't like it when South Africa was doing similar shit.

Maybe she has said something anti-semitic, but I haven't seen it presented anywhere so far...not that I've been looking for it.

When you single out Israel and call it "evil" for Israel to defend itself from Islamist terrorist aggression, then her views are pretty clear.

 

[Toni]

I was really hoping AOC would have the guts to unequivocally defend Ilhan Omar's entirely accurate tweets about the Israel lobby, but she caved and applauded Omar for apologizing.

The quote is misattributed. Omar tweeted that in 2012, prior to becoming a US Representative. Attribution should reflect that. As posted, it is deceptive.


I certainly think she should apologize and/or retract her words right after Trump apologizes and retracts his bigoted, racist, sexist remarks about grabbing women by the pussy, calling various women bitches, his disparaging remarks about women in general, about blacks, Muslims, and immigrants.

 

[Derec]

What's anti-semitic about that quote?

The quote (context being the 2012 Gaza war) says that it is "evil" for Israel to defend itself against aggression from Hamas in Gaza.

Being against the actions of the government of Israel is not synonymous with being against Jews in general.

It depends. If you criticize Israel for something that you would not criticize any other country, then your motivation for singling out Israel is because it is the Jewish homeland.

That's like saying that if you criticize the crackdowns of the Chinese government on dissidents it means you're a racist who hates asians.

If Chinese government is the only one you so criticize, then probably yes.
In any case, Omar is not attacking Israel for cracking down on any dissidents, but on defending itself from a terrorist entity that was shooting rockets and mortars at it. If you think Israel is "evil" for responding for acts of aggression, then you are probably an antisemite, esp. when you do not hold any other countries to such ridiculous standard.

By the way, imagine the outcry from the Islamic Caucus in Congress if it was Israel pumping toxic gas into Gaza tunnels? But since it's Egyptians, crickets.
Two Palestinians suffocate to death in Egypt border tunnel

 

[Derec]

The quote is misattributed.

It is not misattributed, unless you believe the real Ilhan Omar has been replaced by a pod person since 2012.

Omar tweeted that in 2012, prior to becoming a US Representative. Attribution should reflect that. As posted, it is deceptive.

Yes, it is from 2012. But she is still the same person. And it shows that her hatred of Israel has been going for a while.

I certainly think she should apologize and/or retract her words right after Trump apologizes and retracts his bigoted, racist, sexist remarks about grabbing women by the pussy, calling various women bitches, his disparaging remarks about women in general, about blacks, Muslims, and immigrants.

Tu quoque fallacy. We can and should criticize Omar no matter what Trump does or does not do.

 

[Derec]

That does not mean she does not want ICE to deport no undocument aliens. She may believe what you claim, but nothing she has said directly point to i.

That's your problem. You cannot comprehend any synthesis of thought. Unless she says something verbatim, you will deny she thinks something, even when it is evident from two or more statements.

No one made that claim.

It is a claim often made. Not only about AOC but about KH as well.

Of course you have backed up your poorly reasoned straw men - that is what you do. But they are still straw men.

Again, you lack reading comprehension.

- - - Updated - - -

If the quote is real, what I object to is her invoking Allah just as I object to any Christian politician invoking their brand of magical bullshit into our politics.

It is. She tweeted it in 2012, when Israel was defending itself from rocket and mortar attacks by Hamas Islamists. Hence her invocation of Allah.

 

[PyramidHead]

I was really hoping AOC would have the guts to unequivocally defend Ilhan Omar's entirely accurate tweets about the Israel lobby, but she caved and applauded Omar for apologizing.

The quote is misattributed. Omar tweeted that in 2012, prior to becoming a US Representative. Attribution should reflect that. As posted, it is deceptive.


I certainly think she should apologize and/or retract her words right after Trump apologizes and retracts his bigoted, racist, sexist remarks about grabbing women by the pussy, calling various women bitches, his disparaging remarks about women in general, about blacks, Muslims, and immigrants.

No, none of that whataboutism, no details about the time she tweeted it, her tweet is spot on and I'm right there with her asking Allah or whomever to get people critical of imperialism and apartheid. No qualifiers, no apologies needed.

 

[Derec]

No, none of that whataboutism, no details about the time she tweeted it, her tweet is spot on and I'm right there with her asking Allah or whomever to get people critical of imperialism and apartheid. No qualifiers, no apologies needed.

It is not apartheid or imperialism to defend your own country from aggression from Islamic terrorists who want to destroy you.

This is the head of Hamas in Gaza, Yahya Sinwar. Ilhan Omar calls Israel "evil" for defending itself from their attacks with rockets and mortars.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I was really hoping AOC would have the guts to unequivocally defend Ilhan Omar's entirely accurate tweets about the Israel lobby, but she caved and applauded Omar for apologizing.

The quote is misattributed. Omar tweeted that in 2012, prior to becoming a US Representative. Attribution should reflect that. As posted, it is deceptive.


I certainly think she should apologize and/or retract her words right after Trump apologizes and retracts his bigoted, racist, sexist remarks about grabbing women by the pussy, calling various women bitches, his disparaging remarks about women in general, about blacks, Muslims, and immigrants.

While she might have said it before she was a US representative that doesn't make it not her words.

She appears to be a supporter of suicide terrorism in the United States. Is that what you want to see more of?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I was really hoping AOC would have the guts to unequivocally defend Ilhan Omar's entirely accurate tweets about the Israel lobby, but she caved and applauded Omar for apologizing.

What's anti-semitic about that quote? Being against the actions of the government of Israel is not synonymous with being against Jews in general.

That's like saying that if you criticize the crackdowns of the Chinese government on dissidents it means you're a racist who hates asians.

The first statement is clearly false. If anything it's the Palestinians that have hypnotized the world, continually sacrificing their own people and blaming Israel for it.

 

[PyramidHead]

AOC is digging herself deeper and deeper every time she talks about Ilhan Omar's treatment by others in Congress. She won't come right out and actually defend Omar, and seems to tacitly agree Omar's comments about the Israeli lobby were actually racist comments against Jewish people (or at least she agrees that Jewish people were right to be offended by them). This is a huge disappointment for the many progressives and leftists, including a large contingent of Jews, who are also critical of Israel's occupation of Palestine and see no anti-semitism in feeling that way.

Never put your faith in politicians, no matter what they say or do, because they will always disappoint you in the end.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

AOC is digging herself deeper and deeper every time she talks about Ilhan Omar's treatment by others in Congress. She won't come right out and actually defend Omar, and seems to tacitly agree Omar's comments about the Israeli lobby were actually racist comments against Jewish people (or at least she agrees that Jewish people were right to be offended by them). This is a huge disappointment for the many progressives and leftists, including a large contingent of Jews, who are also critical of Israel's occupation of Palestine and see no anti-semitism in feeling that way.

Never put your faith in politicians, no matter what they say or do, because they will always disappoint you in the end.

Maybe because it's not really her fight and she has other things which are more important to her to deal with, so why would she want to bother to insert herself too much into the middle of someone else's bullshit?

 

[PyramidHead]

AOC is digging herself deeper and deeper every time she talks about Ilhan Omar's treatment by others in Congress. She won't come right out and actually defend Omar, and seems to tacitly agree Omar's comments about the Israeli lobby were actually racist comments against Jewish people (or at least she agrees that Jewish people were right to be offended by them). This is a huge disappointment for the many progressives and leftists, including a large contingent of Jews, who are also critical of Israel's occupation of Palestine and see no anti-semitism in feeling that way.

Never put your faith in politicians, no matter what they say or do, because they will always disappoint you in the end.

Maybe because it's not really her fight and she has other things which are more important to her to deal with, so why would she want to bother to insert herself too much into the middle of someone else's bullshit?

If she hadn't said anything that'd be one thing, but the fact that she is drawing attention to the issue by constantly weighing in on it, but doing so in a way that constantly either throws Omar under the bus re: anti-semitism or leaves that accusation unchallenged, is a very troubling sign.

 

[untermensche]

AOC is digging herself deeper and deeper every time she talks about Ilhan Omar's treatment by others in Congress. She won't come right out and actually defend Omar, and seems to tacitly agree Omar's comments about the Israeli lobby were actually racist comments against Jewish people (or at least she agrees that Jewish people were right to be offended by them). This is a huge disappointment for the many progressives and leftists, including a large contingent of Jews, who are also critical of Israel's occupation of Palestine and see no anti-semitism in feeling that way.

Never put your faith in politicians, no matter what they say or do, because they will always disappoint you in the end.

She's not digging herself anywhere.

That is a delusion.

The Israeli lobby represents an evil government.

I don't care if they get pissed off.

 

[PyramidHead]

AOC is digging herself deeper and deeper every time she talks about Ilhan Omar's treatment by others in Congress. She won't come right out and actually defend Omar, and seems to tacitly agree Omar's comments about the Israeli lobby were actually racist comments against Jewish people (or at least she agrees that Jewish people were right to be offended by them). This is a huge disappointment for the many progressives and leftists, including a large contingent of Jews, who are also critical of Israel's occupation of Palestine and see no anti-semitism in feeling that way.

Never put your faith in politicians, no matter what they say or do, because they will always disappoint you in the end.

She's not digging herself anywhere.

That is a delusion.

The Israeli lobby represents an evil government.

I don't care if they get pissed off.

You're agreeing with Omar and me then, and disagreeing with AOC, who still refuses to repudiate accusations of Omar's anti-semitism. Bernie has the right take as usual, and oddly enough so does Geraldo Rivera.