#IStandWithAhmed (or Inventing While Muslim is a thing?)

[Jayjay]

Where did I say he should have been arrested at all?

Then what, exactly, are you trying to say?

I'm just answering AthenaAwakened's question, why the school was not evacuated if everyone thought it was a bomb. The answer being, that nobody thought it was a bomb and nobody is making that claim.

No one here is taking the position that the school officials should "just" take the word of the student that it was not a bomb, but it is 100% clear from their actions and words that they themselves KNEW it was not a bomb. That is why the police tried to pin "hoax bomb" on him... except he never tried to portray the clock as a "hoax bomb" either. In order for it to be a "hoax bomb" someone needs to try to play a hoax. Ahmed Mohammad did not try to fool anyone into believing it was a bomb. He maintained at all times that it was a clock.

Indeed he did. But your logic is flawed. A hoax bomb would be a hoax bomb even if the hoax was not played yet (and before you jump on it, I'm not saying it was a hoax bomb either. Just commenting on your logic). And the last I checked, we lived in a world where people are capable of lying, so just because someone says something, doesn't make it true. You check for other evidence.

 

[Jayjay]

But anyway, minor inaccuracies in your understanding of the events aside, the point is that nobody thought it was a bomb. You keep repeating that as if it's an established fact that everyone is claiming that the English teacher or someone else thought it was a bomb, but I cannot find any reference in any of the reports that anyone would have made such a claim.

So he was cuffed and arrested because...?

According to the reports I've seen, at the suspicion of having made a "hoax bomb" or trying to build a bomb. Not having built a bomb.

 

[RavenSky]

Then what, exactly, are you trying to say?

I'm just answering AthenaAwakened's question, why the school was not evacuated if everyone thought it was a bomb. The answer being, that nobody thought it was a bomb and nobody is making that claim.

No one here is taking the position that the school officials should "just" take the word of the student that it was not a bomb, but it is 100% clear from their actions and words that they themselves KNEW it was not a bomb. That is why the police tried to pin "hoax bomb" on him... except he never tried to portray the clock as a "hoax bomb" either. In order for it to be a "hoax bomb" someone needs to try to play a hoax. Ahmed Mohammad did not try to fool anyone into believing it was a bomb. He maintained at all times that it was a clock.

Indeed he did. But your logic is flawed. A hoax bomb would be a hoax bomb even if the hoax was not played yet. And the last I checked, we lived in a world where people are capable of lying, so just because someone says something, doesn't make it true. You check for other evidence.

Then what evidence was he arrested on?

We apparently all agree that no one thought it was a real bomb. We also know for a fact that he didn't play, or attempt to play, or say he planned to play, a hoax on anyone. As such, it is your logic that is flawed if you are suggesting that he was arrested for a "hoax" not played.

 

[RavenSky]

So he was cuffed and arrested because...?

According to the reports I've seen, at the suspicion of having made a "hoax bomb" or trying to build a bomb. Not having built a bomb.

Except that he didn't try to build a bomb, nor did he try to play a hoax. So let's ask again, he was cuffed and arrested because...?

 

[Jayjay]

And speaking of inventors and talented kids, here is one:

While Braille embossers -- or machines that render written words into tactile text -- are a resourceful tool for the visually impaired, they often come at a steep price, with most devices costing upwards of $2,000 and weighing at least 20 pounds.

Enter 13-year-old entrepreneur Shubham Banerjee. The eighth-grader is aiming to disrupt the market with a machine he fashioned from a Lego Mindstorms EV3 kit -- a hardware and software package that enables users to create robots.

(...)

In addition to enthusiastic support from the blind community, Banerjee’s creation has already caught the eye of one of Silicon Valley’s leading hardware makers. Intel, where Banerjee’s father is an engineer, invested an undisclosed sum last November, making him the youngest entrepreneur to ever receive venture capital, according to the company.

That investment follows an initial $35,000 injection from Banerjee’s father to get the venture off the ground. And, as he is currently too young, Banerjee’s mother has claimed the title of Braigo Labs’ CEO.

Not that every's dad could just cough up $35,000 to help their kid get off the ground, but that's just to put things in perspective. Ahmed may be the biggest clock-based celebrity since Flavor Flav but he's still just an average kid, and I'm not sure if all the media publicity and outrage is helping or harming him (maybe helping, since he'll probably make some good connections and advice from like-minded folks).

 

[Jayjay]

According to the reports I've seen, at the suspicion of having made a "hoax bomb" or trying to build a bomb. Not having built a bomb.

Except that he didn't try to build a bomb, nor did he try to play a hoax. So let's ask again, he was cuffed and arrested because...?

I paraphrased the reason stated by the police. Nwo of course the polcie may be lying and the only real reason is that his name is Ahmed (or any other myriad reason Texas cops may have), but that's irrelevant - what's clear is that he wasn't arrested because anyone thought he had made a bomb, which is the ludicruous claim that I was addressing.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Police should reply seriously to any claim of a possible bomb, especially on the grounds of a public school.

To do otherwise would be entirely irresponsible.

Teachers should immediately report anything they suspect to be a bomb.

To do otherwise would be entirely irresponsible.

The only problem here is that the teachers were idiots and their ability to discriminate a clock from a bomb was apparently no better than other teachers' abilities to discriminate a fountain pen from a knife.

There rare of course no standard rules on what a bomb must be. However they thought it was a bomb, the first priority would have been to immediately evacuate the school. The bomb of course would be left on the premises until the bomb squad arrived.

 

[Ford]

Except that he didn't try to build a bomb, nor did he try to play a hoax. So let's ask again, he was cuffed and arrested because...?

I paraphrased the reason stated by the police. Nwo of course the polcie may be lying and the only real reason is that his name is Ahmed (or any other myriad reason Texas cops may have), but that's irrelevant - what's clear is that he wasn't arrested because anyone thought he had made a bomb, which is the ludicruous claim that I was addressing.

There's something still missing here. He's a kid, was (apparently) cooperative, was not violent or attempted to flee, and his engineering teacher could have easily verified that what he'd built was a time-keeping device and nothing more. He had apparently no criminal record, no history of making threats, and I'm guessing was entirely confused as to why he was being treated as a dangerous criminal.

The cops could have taken him to the station for questioning without putting on handcuffs or arresting him. The way they treated him makes absolutely no sense.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Then what, exactly, are you trying to say?

I'm just answering AthenaAwakened's question, why the school was not evacuated if everyone thought it was a bomb. The answer being, that nobody thought it was a bomb and nobody is making that claim.

No one here is taking the position that the school officials should "just" take the word of the student that it was not a bomb, but it is 100% clear from their actions and words that they themselves KNEW it was not a bomb. That is why the police tried to pin "hoax bomb" on him... except he never tried to portray the clock as a "hoax bomb" either. In order for it to be a "hoax bomb" someone needs to try to play a hoax. Ahmed Mohammad did not try to fool anyone into believing it was a bomb. He maintained at all times that it was a clock.

Indeed he did. But your logic is flawed. A hoax bomb would be a hoax bomb even if the hoax was not played yet (and before you jump on it, I'm not saying it was a hoax bomb either. Just commenting on your logic). And the last I checked, we lived in a world where people are capable of lying, so just because someone says something, doesn't make it true. You check for other evidence.

The problem with the hoax bomb theory is that the entire hoax has been fabricated in the minds of the adults at the school and on the police force. Since they thought is up, maybe they should be the ones getting arrested.

 

[barbos]

There's something still missing here. He's a kid, was (apparently) cooperative, was not violent or attempted to flee

You are not implying that police should shoot people who are attempting to flee?

and his engineering teacher could have easily verified that what he'd built was a time-keeping device and nothing more.

"build" is a strong word here. I think all his engineering teacher could verify is that he made a pretty good imitation of a bomb.

He had apparently no criminal record, no history of making threats.

Do we know that for sure?

 

[barbos]

I'm just answering AthenaAwakened's question, why the school was not evacuated if everyone thought it was a bomb. The answer being, that nobody thought it was a bomb and nobody is making that claim.

No one here is taking the position that the school officials should "just" take the word of the student that it was not a bomb, but it is 100% clear from their actions and words that they themselves KNEW it was not a bomb. That is why the police tried to pin "hoax bomb" on him... except he never tried to portray the clock as a "hoax bomb" either. In order for it to be a "hoax bomb" someone needs to try to play a hoax. Ahmed Mohammad did not try to fool anyone into believing it was a bomb. He maintained at all times that it was a clock.

Indeed he did. But your logic is flawed. A hoax bomb would be a hoax bomb even if the hoax was not played yet (and before you jump on it, I'm not saying it was a hoax bomb either. Just commenting on your logic). And the last I checked, we lived in a world where people are capable of lying, so just because someone says something, doesn't make it true. You check for other evidence.

The problem with the hoax bomb theory is that the entire hoax has been fabricated in the minds of the adults at the school and on the police force. Since they thought is up, maybe they should be the ones getting arrested.

That would be some news, "Teachers arrested for thinking...."

 

[barbos]

And speaking of inventors and talented kids, here is one:

While Braille embossers -- or machines that render written words into tactile text -- are a resourceful tool for the visually impaired, they often come at a steep price, with most devices costing upwards of $2,000 and weighing at least 20 pounds.

Enter 13-year-old entrepreneur Shubham Banerjee. The eighth-grader is aiming to disrupt the market with a machine he fashioned from a Lego Mindstorms EV3 kit -- a hardware and software package that enables users to create robots.

(...)

In addition to enthusiastic support from the blind community, Banerjee’s creation has already caught the eye of one of Silicon Valley’s leading hardware makers. Intel, where Banerjee’s father is an engineer, invested an undisclosed sum last November, making him the youngest entrepreneur to ever receive venture capital, according to the company.

That investment follows an initial $35,000 injection from Banerjee’s father to get the venture off the ground. And, as he is currently too young, Banerjee’s mother has claimed the title of Braigo Labs’ CEO.

Not that every's dad could just cough up $35,000 to help their kid get off the ground, but that's just to put things in perspective. Ahmed may be the biggest clock-based celebrity since Flavor Flav but he's still just an average kid, and I'm not sure if all the media publicity and outrage is helping or harming him (maybe helping, since he'll probably make some good connections and advice from like-minded folks).

It's nice project for a kid, but it is still a toy. Can't really be compared to a real printer at all. So business wise it is a certain failure, intel funding notwithstanding. Big companies are obligated to help kids which are in the news no matter what, otherwise it's a bad publicity, this clock inventor is an illustration.
Other than that this printer boy certainly has a potential to be an engineer.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I'm just answering AthenaAwakened's question, why the school was not evacuated if everyone thought it was a bomb. The answer being, that nobody thought it was a bomb and nobody is making that claim.

No one here is taking the position that the school officials should "just" take the word of the student that it was not a bomb, but it is 100% clear from their actions and words that they themselves KNEW it was not a bomb. That is why the police tried to pin "hoax bomb" on him... except he never tried to portray the clock as a "hoax bomb" either. In order for it to be a "hoax bomb" someone needs to try to play a hoax. Ahmed Mohammad did not try to fool anyone into believing it was a bomb. He maintained at all times that it was a clock.

Indeed he did. But your logic is flawed. A hoax bomb would be a hoax bomb even if the hoax was not played yet (and before you jump on it, I'm not saying it was a hoax bomb either. Just commenting on your logic). And the last I checked, we lived in a world where people are capable of lying, so just because someone says something, doesn't make it true. You check for other evidence.

The problem with the hoax bomb theory is that the entire hoax has been fabricated in the minds of the adults at the school and on the police force. Since they thought is up, maybe they should be the ones getting arrested.

That would be some news, "Teachers arrested for thinking...."

Or in the case NOT thinking, more like fear-filled fantasizing.

 

[barbos]

I'm just answering AthenaAwakened's question, why the school was not evacuated if everyone thought it was a bomb. The answer being, that nobody thought it was a bomb and nobody is making that claim.

No one here is taking the position that the school officials should "just" take the word of the student that it was not a bomb, but it is 100% clear from their actions and words that they themselves KNEW it was not a bomb. That is why the police tried to pin "hoax bomb" on him... except he never tried to portray the clock as a "hoax bomb" either. In order for it to be a "hoax bomb" someone needs to try to play a hoax. Ahmed Mohammad did not try to fool anyone into believing it was a bomb. He maintained at all times that it was a clock.

Indeed he did. But your logic is flawed. A hoax bomb would be a hoax bomb even if the hoax was not played yet (and before you jump on it, I'm not saying it was a hoax bomb either. Just commenting on your logic). And the last I checked, we lived in a world where people are capable of lying, so just because someone says something, doesn't make it true. You check for other evidence.

The problem with the hoax bomb theory is that the entire hoax has been fabricated in the minds of the adults at the school and on the police force. Since they thought is up, maybe they should be the ones getting arrested.

That would be some news, "Teachers arrested for thinking...."

Or in the case NOT thinking, more like fear-filled fantasizing.

Sorry, but that looks like a hoax bomb, go arrest me.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I'm just answering AthenaAwakened's question, why the school was not evacuated if everyone thought it was a bomb. The answer being, that nobody thought it was a bomb and nobody is making that claim.

No one here is taking the position that the school officials should "just" take the word of the student that it was not a bomb, but it is 100% clear from their actions and words that they themselves KNEW it was not a bomb. That is why the police tried to pin "hoax bomb" on him... except he never tried to portray the clock as a "hoax bomb" either. In order for it to be a "hoax bomb" someone needs to try to play a hoax. Ahmed Mohammad did not try to fool anyone into believing it was a bomb. He maintained at all times that it was a clock.

Indeed he did. But your logic is flawed. A hoax bomb would be a hoax bomb even if the hoax was not played yet (and before you jump on it, I'm not saying it was a hoax bomb either. Just commenting on your logic). And the last I checked, we lived in a world where people are capable of lying, so just because someone says something, doesn't make it true. You check for other evidence.

The problem with the hoax bomb theory is that the entire hoax has been fabricated in the minds of the adults at the school and on the police force. Since they thought is up, maybe they should be the ones getting arrested.

That would be some news, "Teachers arrested for thinking...."

Or in this case NOT thinking, more like fear-filled fantasizing fueled to frenzy

 

[Arctish]

You are not implying that police should shoot people who are attempting to flee?

Who said anything about shooting people?

and his engineering teacher could have easily verified that what he'd built was a time-keeping device and nothing more.

"build" is a strong word here. I think all his engineering teacher could verify is that he made a pretty good imitation of a bomb.

If it had been a pretty good imitation of a bomb, it would have included a pretty good imitation of an explosive substance. But since it lacked imitation plastic explosive, imitation fertilizer + imitation diesel fuel, or some such component, it just looked like an electronic gadget that keeps track of time.

He had apparently no criminal record, no history of making threats.

Do we know that for sure?

Yes.

 

[Arctish]

The problem with the hoax bomb theory is that the entire hoax has been fabricated in the minds of the adults at the school and on the police force. Since they thought is up, maybe they should be the ones getting arrested.

That would be some news, "Teachers arrested for thinking...."

Yeah, it would be, especially since it wasn't the teachers who came up with the "hoax bomb" hoax.

 

[bilby]

Doesn't zero tolerance also include zero tolerance for anything that remotely looks like said item?

Not only can you not bring any real guns to school, but you'll be suspended for bringing in anything that remotely resembles a gun.

Here is an article with some examples:

6 School Suspensions Over Obviously Fake Guns

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/21/6-school-suspensions_n_4136563.html

Here is how the administration of the Irving High School in question interprets "zero tolerance"

We cannot allow items on campus that can be perceived to pose a threat.

That's brilliant.

I wish they had had that at my school. I would never have had to go to a single class, because the school would be in lockdown every single day. Even a less than averagely intelligent nine year old could find a way to exploit such an insane rule to completely shut down his school at a whim.

Zero Tolerance, like Mandatory Sentencing, is a way for the moronic people who are in charge to completely cripple the use of any intelligence by their subordinates.

What I don't understand is why people put up with it - as a pupil or as a parent, I would protest against this insanity by simply insisting that it be implemented exactly as written, thereby crippling the system.

ANYTHING can be perceived to pose a threat. Their rule is functionally equivalent to "The campus may not exist; or, where it does exist, must not contain any physical objects of any kind".

 

[Artemus]

ANYTHING can be perceived to pose a threat. Their rule is functionally equivalent to "The campus may not exist; or, where it does exist, must not contain any physical objects of any kind".

With the same criteria that leads to the disassembled clock 'looking like a bomb," they'd better suspend every kid wearing shoes since some actually did make a shoe bomb.

 

[bilby]

ANYTHING can be perceived to pose a threat. Their rule is functionally equivalent to "The campus may not exist; or, where it does exist, must not contain any physical objects of any kind".

With the same criteria that leads to the disassembled clock 'looking like a bomb," they'd better suspend every kid wearing shoes since some actually did make a shoe bomb.

Yup.

Pretty much anything could be a weapon disguised as that thing.