#IStandWithAhmed (or Inventing While Muslim is a thing?)

[Jayjay]

“A child may not be left unattended in a juvenile processing office and is entitled to be accompanied by the child’s parent, guardian, or other custodian or by the child’s attorney,” Section 52.025
Mohamed did not see his parents until he was released from a juvenile detention center, according to police and his family.

This was a violation of the law.

The way I understand that is that they can't put him in a jail cell or even a room by himself, but have to always have someone attending him. Not necessarily parents or a lawyer because they might not be there yet even if notified.

Think about it: when a kid is brought to the juvenile procesiing office, and the parents aren't there, what are they supposed to do with him if he can't be left unattended? Wait outside the door until a parent arrives, then bring him in for processing? That makes no sense.

 

[Jayjay]

I still don't understand what this kid was thinking. Was this an intentional hoax to get attention and a politically correct backlash, including his invitation to the white house and now this big law suit? I'm not sure I'm ready to make that accusation, but I think it very well could have been. All this kid did was disassemble a clock and put it in a form that looked vageuly like a bomb... for no apparent purpose other than to show it to people.

He said what he was thinking. He wanted to show his robotics teacher the kind of electronic tinkering he did at home in the hopes that his teacher would give him more challenging assignments.

It doesn't have to make sense to you, an adult who probably never built a case mod in your entire life. But to a teenager in a robotics class, taking the electronic components from something and installing them into a different housing to make an unusual but still functional item makes perfect sense. It's what those kids like to do.

What your source for it being a "robotics class"? Earlier in this thread I think the closest course that may have been possible was engineering math. And what's your source for Ahmed's motivation being that his teacher would give him more challenging assignments? All I've seen is that he claims he wanted to impress his teachers.

Or are you just making this up?

 

[barbos]

“A child may not be left unattended in a juvenile processing office and is entitled to be accompanied by the child’s parent, guardian, or other custodian or by the child’s attorney,” Section 52.025
Mohamed did not see his parents until he was released from a juvenile detention center, according to police and his family.

This was a violation of the law.

The way I understand that is that they can't put him in a jail cell or even a room by himself, but have to always have someone attending him. Not necessarily parents or a lawyer because they might not be there yet even if notified.

Think about it: when a kid is brought to the juvenile procesiing office, and the parents aren't there, what are they supposed to do with him if he can't be left unattended? Wait outside the door until a parent arrives, then bring him in for processing? That makes no sense.

Yes, I think the key thing here "may not be left unattended". He can be attended by police themselves but he can also request be attended by his parents, lawyer or someone else but it does not imply that police must grant such request automatically. For example if his parents were suspected (and I bet they were at some point) then it's clearly not possible for them to be attending, his parents could have been far away too.

Also, "may not be left unattended" is merely police safety measure/regulation and not a civil rights matter. If Ahmed had killed himself while left alone then his family would have had a point in demanding compensation. But since nothing happened they are not entitled to anything. And he was not left unattended anyway

 

[RavenSky]

f the Principal had confiscated the thing and sent Ahmed back to class, we never would have heard about it. The whole discussion is centered on probable cause, and the role Ahmed's religion played in the decision to take him out of school in handcuffs for the not-crime of bringing a clock to school, and the other not-crime of maintaining his clock was a clock.

Sure they could have simply confiscated the hoax bomb but they felt they needed to do more to discourage future hoaxes. He wasn't arrested for the non-crime of bringing a clock to school. Once you take the wires out of a well designed clock case and shabbily put them in a large case and bring that case somewhere it doesn't belong its no longer just a clock its a hoax bomb.

It has been said over and over but you still don't seem to get it.

It requires a hoax to be a "hoax bomb". There was no hoax. Just a homemade clock case.

 

[barbos]

Sure they could have simply confiscated the hoax bomb but they felt they needed to do more to discourage future hoaxes. He wasn't arrested for the non-crime of bringing a clock to school. Once you take the wires out of a well designed clock case and shabbily put them in a large case and bring that case somewhere it doesn't belong its no longer just a clock its a hoax bomb.

It has been said over and over but you still don't seem to get it.

It requires a hoax to be a "hoax bomb". There was no hoax. Just a homemade clock case.

You keep insisting on taking Ahmed's word on it, police does not work like that. They don't assume what you say to be the truth.

 

[Arctish]

He said what he was thinking. He wanted to show his robotics teacher the kind of electronic tinkering he did at home in the hopes that his teacher would give him more challenging assignments.

It doesn't have to make sense to you, an adult who probably never built a case mod in your entire life. But to a teenager in a robotics class, taking the electronic components from something and installing them into a different housing to make an unusual but still functional item makes perfect sense. It's what those kids like to do.

What your source for it being a "robotics class"? Earlier in this thread I think the closest course that may have been possible was engineering math. And what's your source for Ahmed's motivation being that his teacher would give him more challenging assignments? All I've seen is that he claims he wanted to impress his teachers.

Or are you just making this up?

I have already provided a link to the school district website which contains a link to a pdf listing of the courses available in Ahmed's former high school, and pointed out the engineering class open to freshmen which is described as a course of study focused on robotics problems and design, remember?

"Engineering Mathematics [ENGMATH 13036700]
Grades: 9-10 Credits: 1 I, M, N
Engineering Mathematics is a course where students solve and model robotic design problems. Students use a variety of
mathematical methods and models to represent and analyze problems involving data acquisition, spatial applications, electrical measurement, manufacturing processes, materials engineering, mechanical drives, pneumatics, process control systems, quality control, and robotics with computer programming."


I and others have also linked to interviews and quotes in which Ahmed stated his reasons for bringing the clock to school.

So, no, I'm not making this up.

 

[barbos]

Arctish, have you yourself done any robotics, electronics or programming?

 

[Arctish]

Arctish, have you yourself done any robotics, electronics or programming?

Robotics came along after my high school and college years were long over, but I have done a bit of science geek tinkering, like building an antenna out of lumber and hardware cloth so I could listen to the radio waves given off by the planet Jupiter, and helping a friend with a pickle lamp. My husband is the one who has done some case modding, and our kid took a robotics class in middle school.

 

[barbos]

Arctish, have you yourself done any robotics, electronics or programming?

Robotics came along after my high school and college years were long over, but I have done a bit of science geek tinkering, like building an antenna out of lumber and hardware cloth so I could listen to the radio waves given off by the planet Jupiter, and helping a friend with a pickle lamp. My husband is the one who has done some case modding, and our kid took a robotics class in middle school.

So, answer is no. Do you understand why people who actually have done these things call that kid an idiot?

 

[thebeave]

Robotics came along after my high school and college years were long over, but I have done a bit of science geek tinkering, like building an antenna out of lumber and hardware cloth so I could listen to the radio waves given off by the planet Jupiter, and helping a friend with a pickle lamp. My husband is the one who has done some case modding, and our kid took a robotics class in middle school.

So, answer is no. Do you understand why people who actually have done these things call that kid an idiot?

This is something I've speculated about. The people who think he's a bullshitter seem to be the ones who have at least a little bit of background and experience with electronics and circuit boards. Those that think he's some sort of whiz bang electronics genius probably have no idea what something basic like a resistor looks like or does, or what the inside of a digital clock might look like. Look at the video below where Ahmed is being interviewed by Robin Roberts from Good Morning America (GMA). Around the 4:05 mark, he proudly shows the motherboard from a "media player". Someone with just basic electronics knowledge can see he just removed a few screws and yanked it out of an old CD player or something. The typical GMA viewer, though, is probably thinking, "Holy Crap, look at that thing! All those colorful wires and doo hickeys...how could anyone design and build that...it looks so "sciencey"? That kid is the new Thomas Edison!" And of course Robin Roberts is gushing over it, and Ahmed claims, "Its not my first invention and it won't be my last invention."

The kid is a fraud.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Someone with just basic electronics knowledge can see he just removed a few screws and yanked it out of an old CD player or something. The typical GMA viewer, though, is probably thinking, "Holy Crap, look at that thing! All those colorful wires and doo hickeys...how could anyone figure that out? That kid is the new Thomas Edison!" And of course Robin Roberts is gushing over it, and Ahmed claims, "Its not my first invention and it won't be my last invention."

False dichotomy.

 

[dismal]

So, answer is no. Do you understand why people who actually have done these things call that kid an idiot?

This is something I've speculated about. The people who think he's a bullshitter seem to be the ones who have at least a little bit of background and experience with electronics and circuit boards. Those that think he's some sort of whiz bang electronics genius probably have no idea what something basic like a resistor looks like or does, or what the inside of a digital clock might look like. Look at the video below where Ahmed is being interviewed by Robin Roberts from Good Morning America (GMA). Around the 4:05 mark, he proudly shows the motherboard from a "media player". Someone with just basic electronics knowledge can see he just removed a few screws and yanked it out of an old CD player or something. The typical GMA viewer, though, is probably thinking, "Holy Crap, look at that thing! All those colorful wires and doo hickeys...how could anyone design and build that...it looks so "sciencey"? That kid is the new Thomas Edison!" And of course Robin Roberts is gushing over it, and Ahmed claims, "Its not my first invention and it won't be my last invention."

The kid is a fraud.

I think it's mostly a case of people who prefer a certain narrative to reality choosing to ignore the bits of reality that don't fit the preferred narrative.

I never heard anyone actually rebut the idea the kid unscrewed a few screws from a clock and threw the insides in a case. They chose to ignore it because the story was better if it was a genius "invention". The kid just played along. Maybe he thought "hey if people make this big a fuss over me maybe I am that awesome". He's probably earned a participation trophy in life.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

He said what he was thinking. He wanted to show his robotics teacher the kind of electronic tinkering he did at home in the hopes that his teacher would give him more challenging assignments.

What tinkering? All he did was pull some components out of a clock and put them in a box. Any 6 year old could do that. He did it just to go "hey teacher, look how I can remove a casing and make it look more like a bomb"? And he did that in a culture where somebody freaked out over a pop tart "shaped like a gun"? And he expected no reaction? He's a kid. He isn't an idiot. And he has gained from this. I am not saying he did it on purpose, but I would not be at all surprised if he did.

 

[barbos]

Someone with just basic electronics knowledge can see he just removed a few screws and yanked it out of an old CD player or something. The typical GMA viewer, though, is probably thinking, "Holy Crap, look at that thing! All those colorful wires and doo hickeys...how could anyone figure that out? That kid is the new Thomas Edison!" And of course Robin Roberts is gushing over it, and Ahmed claims, "Its not my first invention and it won't be my last invention."

False dichotomy.

What's that supposed to mean?
The kid is a complete idiot. And these MIT people are going to agree with my assessment, not publicly maybe but they are.

- - - Updated - - -

This is something I've speculated about. The people who think he's a bullshitter seem to be the ones who have at least a little bit of background and experience with electronics and circuit boards. Those that think he's some sort of whiz bang electronics genius probably have no idea what something basic like a resistor looks like or does, or what the inside of a digital clock might look like. Look at the video below where Ahmed is being interviewed by Robin Roberts from Good Morning America (GMA). Around the 4:05 mark, he proudly shows the motherboard from a "media player". Someone with just basic electronics knowledge can see he just removed a few screws and yanked it out of an old CD player or something. The typical GMA viewer, though, is probably thinking, "Holy Crap, look at that thing! All those colorful wires and doo hickeys...how could anyone design and build that...it looks so "sciencey"? That kid is the new Thomas Edison!" And of course Robin Roberts is gushing over it, and Ahmed claims, "Its not my first invention and it won't be my last invention."

The kid is a fraud.

I think it's mostly a case of people who prefer a certain narrative to reality choosing to ignore the bits of reality that don't fit the preferred narrative.

I never heard anyone actually rebut the idea the kid unscrewed a few screws from a clock and threw the insides in a case. They chose to ignore it because the story was better if it was a genius "invention". The kid just played along. Maybe he thought "hey if people make this big a fuss over me maybe I am that awesome". He's probably earned a participation trophy in life.

Who is going to rebut it? that lady on TV?

 

[Jayjay]

What your source for it being a "robotics class"? Earlier in this thread I think the closest course that may have been possible was engineering math. And what's your source for Ahmed's motivation being that his teacher would give him more challenging assignments? All I've seen is that he claims he wanted to impress his teachers.

Or are you just making this up?

I have already provided a link to the school district website which contains a link to a pdf listing of the courses available in Ahmed's former high school, and pointed out the engineering class open to freshmen which is described as a course of study focused on robotics problems and design, remember?

"Engineering Mathematics [ENGMATH 13036700]
Grades: 9-10 Credits: 1 I, M, N
Engineering Mathematics is a course where students solve and model robotic design problems. Students use a variety of
mathematical methods and models to represent and analyze problems involving data acquisition, spatial applications, electrical measurement, manufacturing processes, materials engineering, mechanical drives, pneumatics, process control systems, quality control, and robotics with computer programming."

Fair enough. I remembered the course name but not the description.

However, that's just a guess, as there is another course that could match the description of an "engineering class":

Concepts of Engineering and Technology
[CONCENGT 13036200]
Grades: 9 Credits: 1 MacARTHUR
This course provides an overview of the various fields of science,
technology, engineering, and mathematics and their
interrelationships. Students will apply knowledge and skills
through various computer applications and project-based
activities. Students will work on assigned design teams to develop
a product or system. Students will learn about the many career
options that are available to them in the engineering occupational
cluster

Both of these are possible, but I'd expect that the "Concepts of Engineering" is an introductory course that is more likely to have been arranged at the beginning of grade 9. Based on this information on the student handbook alone, I think it's a premature conclusion to say that the class that Ahmed was taking was necessarily a robotics class.

I and others have also linked to interviews and quotes in which Ahmed stated his reasons for bringing the clock to school.

Yes, but not specificly that the reason was to get more challenging assignments rather than just impress. I've seen a lot of the interviews (but by no means all) and what you claimed was something I've not heard of before, hence need citation.

 

[barbos]

Speaking of this clock making genius.There was one video where he was shown as a background I mean audio was from reporters, so you can't hear what he was saying. On that video he was unsurprisingly holding circuit board of something and at one point he pulled electrolytic capacitor out, effectively destroying it. To be fair it had been pretty much destroyed before he started it and without audio it's hard to say what he was trying to accomplish there, but if you ask me that was pretty idiotic.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

False dichotomy.

What's that supposed to mean?

A false dilemma (also called false dichotomy, false binary, black-and-white thinking, bifurcation, denying a conjunct, the either–or fallacy, fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses, the fallacy of false choice, the fallacy of the false alternative, or the fallacy of the excluded middle) is a type of informal fallacy that involves a situation in which only limited alternatives are considered, when in fact there is at least one additional option. ...

The options may be a position that is between two extremes (such as when there are shades of grey) or may be completely different alternatives. Phrasing that implies two options (dilemma, dichotomy, black-and-white) may be replaced with other number-based nouns, such as a "false trilemma" if something is reduced to only three options.

False dilemma can arise intentionally, when fallacy is used in an attempt to force a choice or outcome such as, in some contexts, the assertion that "if you are not with us, you are against us."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

 

[barbos]

What's that supposed to mean?

A false dilemma (also called false dichotomy, false binary, black-and-white thinking, bifurcation, denying a conjunct, the either–or fallacy, fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses, the fallacy of false choice, the fallacy of the false alternative, or the fallacy of the excluded middle) is a type of informal fallacy that involves a situation in which only limited alternatives are considered, when in fact there is at least one additional option. ...

The options may be a position that is between two extremes (such as when there are shades of grey) or may be completely different alternatives. Phrasing that implies two options (dilemma, dichotomy, black-and-white) may be replaced with other number-based nouns, such as a "false trilemma" if something is reduced to only three options.

False dilemma can arise intentionally, when fallacy is used in an attempt to force a choice or outcome such as, in some contexts, the assertion that "if you are not with us, you are against us."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

I does not help

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I does not help

You said it, not me.

 

[barbos]

I does not help

You said it, not me.

Still does not help