#IStandWithAhmed (or Inventing While Muslim is a thing?)

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Citation?

Clockboy is all over the map when it comes to discussing what he actually did. In this video, he says he's an inventor, and his most recent invention is a clock that he built from scraps he found around the house. In another video I posted, he says it took him 10 to 20 minutes to build. That he could "invent" a clock in 10 to 20 minutes from scraps that he found around the house is just 100% flat out crap. There is absolutely no doubt that he just dumped some clock guts inside a pencil case.

I am not convinced that he merely took a clock and dumped the whole thing into a case and that is all. I've read the conservative websites that claim this but have you actually tried to be critical of what you were reading? Have you tried to reproduce the zoomed in photo? Have you looked at specs of the alleged 70's (or is it 1986) product? Did it include everything in the zoomed-in photo that you zoomed into? For example, is there really a battery in the original specifications for the alleged clock?

Also, I don't think his saying he made it out of scraps around the house is inconsistent with his saying he made it from parts. It isn't "all over the place."

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No it looked like an electronic device in a case, but not a bomb. It is not rare for students to put electronic devices in cases.

Says who?

Me. See previous post.

 

[Jaecp]

Wait, is he really challenging the idea of putting electronics in a case?

Barbos, do you not know what static electricity is and the common way to keep it from destroy electronics?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Perhaps you could explain how any of that is remotely relevant.

The analogy shows, that it is not necessary for an actual hoax to be successful to determine that something might be used as part of a hoax. Ahmed brought a suspicious contraption to school that looked more like a suitcase bomb than a clock and could not adequately explain why he did it.

It looked like an electronic device in a case. It didn't look like a clock you would buy in a store or a bomb you would see on television. The fact that it had numbers on it not counting down but displaying like a clock made it look less like a bomb than is being reported on conservative websites. Also, there were other elements missing already discussed.

It's not an unreasonable to think that maybe he intended it to be some sort of prank.

It is actually unreasonable when you listen to his story and when you realize the clock display is a clock display not a timed countdown to a bomb. Realizing that is something that you can do straight away. As some people in the thread said, though, when you take into account his Muslim background, some people might jump to the conclusion it's a bomb or a hoax bomb...

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Wait, is he really challenging the idea of putting electronics in a case?

Yes, he is. Amazing, isn't it?

 

[Jaecp]

Amazing fits, I suppose, although that's not the adjective I'd have chosen

 

[Jayjay]

Thanks for the Kubiak comment. But it raises a question, if Ahmed was already brining more advanced gadgets in middle school, why did he do such a bad job with this one, especially if its purpose was to impress his teacher?

Before answering, are you aware of individual bias in lacking creativity to answer? That is just because we cannot think of the answer doesn't mean it isn't there. But I'll take a stab at it. He had a teacher whom he wanted to show. There was a specific context regarding class discussion he wanted to demonstrate, something small that could take 20 minutes of work.

Another explanation is that the history teacher is mistaken and Ahmed has never made anything more complex than that. But that's really irrelevant to anything except curiosity about Ahmed's engineering abilities... personally, I think it would have been great if he would build stuff but for some reason it seems that now that everyone thinks he's a super-genius the expectations are absurdly high and that can be discouraging to a kid.

As for specific elements of a bomb, that's pedantic sophistry.

It isn't pedantic sophistry, it's calling out clearly missing elements.

Only real criteria is if people think it looks like a bomb, and we know that the English teacher did.

I am not even sure if they said that or if they said they thought it was a hoax bomb or if they said the former then the latter when they felt stupid about it.

We know the teacher said that she thought it looks like a bomb from Ahmed's own account. The school rules on prohibited items mentions "look-alike weapons", but keep in mind that "hoax bomb" is the legal reason that the police used to bring him to the processing center.

The device certainly didn't look like a clock anymore.

No it looked like an electronic device in a case, but not a bomb. It is not rare for students to put electronic devices in cases.

Guess what else looks like an electronic device in a case? A suitcase bomb.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Before answering, are you aware of individual bias in lacking creativity to answer? That is just because we cannot think of the answer doesn't mean it isn't there. But I'll take a stab at it. He had a teacher whom he wanted to show. There was a specific context regarding class discussion he wanted to demonstrate, something small that could take 20 minutes of work.

Another explanation is that the history teacher is mistaken and ...

I doubt that the teacher is mistaken to any significant degree.

As for specific elements of a bomb, that's pedantic sophistry.

It isn't pedantic sophistry, it's calling out clearly missing elements.

Only real criteria is if people think it looks like a bomb, and we know that the English teacher did.

I am not even sure if they said that or if they said they thought it was a hoax bomb or if they said the former then the latter when they felt stupid about it.

We know the teacher said that she thought it looks like a bomb from Ahmed's own account. The school rules on prohibited items mentions "look-alike weapons", but keep in mind that "hoax bomb" is the legal reason that the police used to bring him to the processing center.

So then the likely scenario is that the teacher made a huge blunder. She saw a clock with numbers moving forward [and she possibly took into account Ahmed's being Muslim] and mistakenly concluded a bomb. Then, when she brought it to the office or wherever other staff observed it, they said oops, that's a mistake, how do we get out of this OR for some other reason they modified the conclusion to "it's a hoax bomb." They then tried to pressure Ahmed quickly without his parents being present to put it in writing it was a hoax bomb or he'd be expelled permanently. That isn't a fair scenario at all.

The device certainly didn't look like a clock anymore.

No it looked like an electronic device in a case, but not a bomb. It is not rare for students to put electronic devices in cases.

Guess what else looks like an electronic device in a case? A suitcase bomb.

It looks like a non-harmful electronic device in a pencil case, not a bomb in a suitcase. When someone tells you beforehand that it's a clock, then that is what you will conclude upon looking inside, not that it is a bomb.

Also, from before:

It is not rare for students to put electronic devices in cases.

 

[Jayjay]

Well that was a typo. I meant to say "could be a timer as much as a clock".

Timers visibly count down. They don't display the time of day.

That's my point exactly: Ahmed's device did not display the time of day. If it did, then it would have been less suspicious. As for timers visibly counting down, please take your cell phone, open the clock application and go to the timer. What does it show? Mine says 00:00.0. Just like Ahmed's device would if plugged in.

 

[Jayjay]

Citation?

Clockboy is all over the map when it comes to discussing what he actually did. In this video, he says he's an inventor, and his most recent invention is a clock that he built from scraps he found around the house. In another video I posted, he says it took him 10 to 20 minutes to build. That he could "invent" a clock in 10 to 20 minutes from scraps that he found around the house is just 100% flat out crap. There is absolutely no doubt that he just dumped some clock guts inside a pencil case. As I said before, the kid is a fraud. It's particularly shameful that he is flat out lying to kids on a Youtube channel called, "Inspiring Inventors" and is being hailed as some sort of role model.

That video linked to another one, which is NSFW, but made me laugh.

Show

 

[thebeave]

Timers visibly count down. They don't display the time of day.

That's my point exactly: Ahmed's device did not display the time of day. If it did, then it would have been less suspicious. As for timers visibly counting down, please take your cell phone, open the clock application and go to the timer. What does it show? Mine says 00:00.0. Just like Ahmed's device would if plugged in.

The idea that a bomb timer has to be the type that counts down to zero is ridiculous. If you want to make a clock into a bomb timer, you set the clock to the current time, then set the alarm to the time you want the bomb to go off. For a normal clock, at the set alarm time, a voltage is applied to the alarm buzzer/chime and you hear the alarm. When you modify it to be a bomb timer, you put a detonator (or a relay to a detonator) in place of the alarm buzzer/chime.

There was a news article I read years ago where some Muslim bomber in the Middle East set his clock timer bomb to go off at a particular time, but it went off an hour early and blew him up when no one was around. Turns out there was a Daylight Savings change the previous night, but he forgot to update his bomb alarm time to reflect that.

Countdown timers are great for movies, as you can see how much time left the hero has to cut the red wire. I doubt they're really used all that much in the real world.

Also, when you first plug in an alarm clock without any battery backup, it typically displays a flashing "12:00", not "00:00". At least with every clock I've ever seen.

 

[RavenSky]

Perhaps you could explain how any of that is remotely relevant.

The analogy shows, that it is not necessary for an actual hoax to be successful to determine that something might be used as part of a hoax.

But it still needs to be intended as a hoax

Ahmed brought a suspicious contraption to school that looked more like a suitcase bomb than a clock and could not adequately explain why he did it. It's not an unreasonable to think that maybe he intended it to be some sort of prank.

He did adequately explain it.

Right, and the cops did exactly that. They looked for intent, and when they determined it wasn't a hoax they let Ahmed go. Of course with advantage of hindsight one can always pretend that a reasonable person should not have taken several hours to do so, but the fact is that it took a while for the media and even people in this thread to determine that it was the innards of an alarm clock instead of an "invention". If you don't already know what it is supposed to be, figuring out the intent might as well take that much, especially if Ahmed was not able to explain it.

Ahmed did explain it right from the very first second when he showed it to his teacher. No one at the school, or at the police department, or here was fooled into ever thinking it was anything other than a clock. Since there was never any question that it was a clock and was meant to be a clock, Ahmed never should have been arrested and taken from the school in handcuffs.

How do you know when "it was obvious to even the most dimwitted person on this planet"?

Produce evidence that even a single teacher, school official or police officer in Ahmed's town actually thought it was a bomb. Produce even a single person on this thread who actually thought it was a bomb.

 

[Jayjay]

The analogy shows, that it is not necessary for an actual hoax to be successful to determine that something might be used as part of a hoax.

But it still needs to be intended as a hoax

Ahmed brought a suspicious contraption to school that looked more like a suitcase bomb than a clock and could not adequately explain why he did it. It's not an unreasonable to think that maybe he intended it to be some sort of prank.

He did adequately explain it.

Not according to the cops. Unless you have the transcripts of the police interview, it's anyone's guess what he said. Ahmed's own recollection is unreliable and seems to be changing all the time.

Right, and the cops did exactly that. They looked for intent, and when they determined it wasn't a hoax they let Ahmed go. Of course with advantage of hindsight one can always pretend that a reasonable person should not have taken several hours to do so, but the fact is that it took a while for the media and even people in this thread to determine that it was the innards of an alarm clock instead of an "invention". If you don't already know what it is supposed to be, figuring out the intent might as well take that much, especially if Ahmed was not able to explain it.

Ahmed did explain it right from the very first second when he showed it to his teacher. No one at the school, or at the police department, or here was fooled into ever thinking it was anything other than a clock. Since there was never any question that it was a clock and was meant to be a clock, Ahmed never should have been arrested and taken from the school in handcuffs.

Of course there was a question of whether it was a clock. Maybe they deduced that it was made from clock parts, but had no idea why. We know for a fact that the English teacher thought it looked like a bomb when she confiscated it.

How do you know when "it was obvious to even the most dimwitted person on this planet"?

Produce evidence that even a single teacher, school official or police officer in Ahmed's town actually thought it was a bomb. Produce even a single person on this thread who actually thought it was a bomb.

Produce evidence of me or anyone else claiming that anyone ever thought it was a bomb, instead of merely looking like one, or be done with this old canard.

 

[laughing dog]

But it still needs to be intended as a hoax

Ahmed brought a suspicious contraption to school that looked more like a suitcase bomb than a clock and could not adequately explain why he did it. It's not an unreasonable to think that maybe he intended it to be some sort of prank.

He did adequately explain it.

Not according to the cops. Unless you have the transcripts of the police interview, it's anyone's guess what he said. Ahmed's own recollection is unreliable and seems to be changing all the time.

Which means he ought to presumed innocent (i.e. left alone at that point).

Right, and the cops did exactly that. They looked for intent, and when they determined it wasn't a hoax they let Ahmed go. Of course with advantage of hindsight one can always pretend that a reasonable person should not have taken several hours to do so, but the fact is that it took a while for the media and even people in this thread to determine that it was the innards of an alarm clock instead of an "invention". If you don't already know what it is supposed to be, figuring out the intent might as well take that much, especially if Ahmed was not able to explain it.

Ahmed did explain it right from the very first second when he showed it to his teacher. No one at the school, or at the police department, or here was fooled into ever thinking it was anything other than a clock. Since there was never any question that it was a clock and was meant to be a clock, Ahmed never should have been arrested and taken from the school in handcuffs.

Of course there was a question of whether it was a clock. Maybe they deduced that it was made from clock parts, but had no idea why. We know for a fact that the English teacher thought it looked like a bomb when she confiscated it.

Produce evidence of me or anyone else claiming that anyone ever thought it was a bomb, instead of merely looking like one, or be done with this old canard.

If it did not look like a bomb or if no one thought it looked like a bomb, how in the world could anyone think it was a "hoax" bomb? I realize that is a logical question, but it oughtn't be that hard to understand as you seem to make it.

 

[Nexus]

Which means he ought to presumed innocent (i.e. left alone at that point).

No. Presumption of innocence is for trials not police investigations.

If it did not look like a bomb or if no one thought it looked like a bomb, how in the world could anyone think it was a "hoax" bomb?

Once you see it doesn't have explosives you know its not a real bomb but if the device has wires and timers and is in a place where it doesn't belong it still looks like a hoax bomb.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

That's my point exactly: Ahmed's device did not display the time of day. If it did, then it would have been less suspicious. As for timers visibly counting down, please take your cell phone, open the clock application and go to the timer. What does it show? Mine says 00:00.0. Just like Ahmed's device would if plugged in.

The idea that a bomb timer has to be the type that counts down to zero is ridiculous. If you want to make a clock into a bomb timer, you set the clock to the current time, then set the alarm to the time you want the bomb to go off. For a normal clock, at the set alarm time, a voltage is applied to the alarm buzzer/chime and you hear the alarm. When you modify it to be a bomb timer, you put a detonator (or a relay to a detonator) in place of the alarm buzzer/chime.

There was a news article I read years ago where some Muslim bomber in the Middle East set his clock timer bomb to go off at a particular time, but it went off an hour early and blew him up when no one was around. Turns out there was a Daylight Savings change the previous night, but he forgot to update his bomb alarm time to reflect that.

Countdown timers are great for movies, as you can see how much time left the hero has to cut the red wire. I doubt they're really used all that much in the real world.

Also, when you first plug in an alarm clock without any battery backup, it typically displays a flashing "12:00", not "00:00". At least with every clock I've ever seen.

The context of what we were discussing is what an "average person" would be thinking because of what they've seen in "movies." So we would expect to see 00:00 not 12:26 or whatever slowly counting forward. like a clock.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Timers visibly count down. They don't display the time of day.

That's my point exactly: Ahmed's device did not display the time of day. If it did, then it would have been less suspicious.

Do you have any evidence at all of what the clock displayed? If not, then we should presume it is likely it displayed 12:00 upon starting up like clocks do.

As for timers visibly counting down, please take your cell phone, open the clock application and go to the timer. What does it show? Mine says 00:00.0. Just like Ahmed's device would if plugged in.

A cell phone is irrelevant. A clock (allegedly from 1986) displays 12:00.

 

[RavenSky]

No. Presumption of innocence is for trials not police investigations.

If it did not look like a bomb or if no one thought it looked like a bomb, how in the world could anyone think it was a "hoax" bomb?

Once you see it doesn't have explosives you know its not a real bomb but if the device has wires and timers and is in a place where it doesn't belong it still looks like a hoax bomb.

It can't be a "hoax bomb" without the "hoax" part

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

[Young Muslim male brings an electronic device to school in a pencil case.] Then...
Claim#1: "It's a bomb!"

[Claim#1 is proved wrong.]. Then...
Claim#2: "It's a hoax bomb!"

[Claim#2 is proved wrong.] Then...
Claim#3: "Well, he made me think it was a hoax bomb. It was a hoax hoax bomb!"

 

[laughing dog]

No. Presumption of innocence is for trials not police investigations.

It should be for the school and the police. Neither had any indication that this device was intended to 1) look like a bomb or 2) fool people into thinking there was a bomb. In fact, they had ample evidence to the contrary for both. Yet, instead of dropping it or backing off, they doubled down on their stupidity.

Once you see it doesn't have explosives you know its not a real bomb but if the device has wires and timers and is in a place where it doesn't belong it still looks like a hoax bomb.

If it doesn't look like a bomb, it cannot possibly look like a hoax bomb. Using your rationale, anything that doesn't look like a bomb can be called a "hoax bomb".

 

[arkirk]

It should be for the school and the police. Neither had any indication that this device was intended to 1) look like a bomb or 2) fool people into thinking there was a bomb. In fact, they had ample evidence to the contrary for both. Yet, instead of dropping it or backing off, they doubled down on their stupidity.

Once you see it doesn't have explosives you know its not a real bomb but if the device has wires and timers and is in a place where it doesn't belong it still looks like a hoax bomb.

If it doesn't look like a bomb, it cannot possibly look like a hoax bomb. Using your rationale, anything that doesn't look like a bomb can be called a "hoax bomb".

Obama seemed awful affectionate toward this "alarm clock." Could he be shielding this kid from abuse in hopes he might eventually come up with some improvements on his drones? That's what we need MORE OF...better ways of killing those we don't like. Obama is a long way from worrying about the human rights of some. He could have been kissing this boy's ass just to get close to him. At any rate, this story is not worth 1319 posts.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Maybe NASA wants to use him to fake another moon landing.