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January 6 Hearings Live

SLD said:
blastula said:
Most of Pence's precious 74 million support the coup attempt that included his lynching. Most of them believe the election was stolen
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I stil wonder what the impact would be had they truly committed the violence they espoused. And I have no doubt that they would have. Granted it would have been difficult for them to breach Pence’s security detail because they would have shot anyone trying to attack him without qualms. The shooting of Ashli Babbit shows that the rioters could have been stopped by a few well placed shots. No one went further after she was shot.

But Romney barely escaped. What would have happened had the guard not found him going in the wrong direction and they confronted him openly? He would have been a prime target having voted for impeachment. Or what if the officer who shot Babbit hadn’t and they breached the chamber with such representatives as Pelosi and AOC? If they had killed someone, would we even have this debate? It would clearly been on Trump. Would the Republicans still be so enamored with this fucking asshole? It’s only by sheer luck that they didn’t catch at least one of these folks off guard.

I suspect not much would change. The Republican Party would still be excusing what happened. It was Antifa infiltrators, because Trumper would never do something like that. They would mock the idea of holding Trump accountable because, after all, he didn’t really incite the violence and he didn’t actually kill anyone personally.
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I keep thinking back to what happened after the Oklahoma City bombing. In the previous years (oddly concurrent with Clinton's time in the White House), there was a growing far-right militia movement. Weekend warriors training in the woods of Michigan and elsewhere, storing weapons and ammo, "prepping" for the coming conflict, etc. McVeigh and Nichols fell in with some of these folks, and shared some of their beliefs.

When the bomb went off (and after an attempt was made to blame it on brown folks), the nation was shocked. That famous photo of a firefighter carrying a bloody infant out of the wreckage went as "viral" as the one of the firefighters raising the flag after 9/11. The country recoiled in horror, and the militia types? Their recruiting dried up, they went very quiet, and dropped off the radar as if to say "hey, don't try to pin that on us...we're just a bunch of guys who like shooting cans in the back yard."

Would that have happened if the insurrectionists had killed a Congressman or Senator? I'm not so sure. With the amount of support among Republicans for the idea that the election was "stolen," (a clear majority) and that violence might be necessary to rectify the situation (a significant minority), I'd guess that excuses would be flying fast and furious. These folks think Ashli Babbitt was a martyr for the cause and/or a victim of "the deep state."

No, I think it would take a truly horrific mass casualty event at a notable landmark to even budge some of these people. It would have to be bigger than Oklahoma City, maybe even bigger than 9/11 in order to shake some of the cobwebs loose. I mean, they weren't moved by two dozen elementary school kids and teachers being slaughtered. Dozens of country music fans being gunned down didn't faze them. And if someone did manage to pull off an attack on the nation (bombing the Capitol or some such), the first thing they'd probably do is scream "why didn't Biden protect us?!"
 
I read an article about how one woman who died at the insurrection had so quickly become radicalized by QAnon and the Trump movement. It seems people are easily becoming seduced and addicted to this stuff now. Kind of like the online warriors protecting the missing children... even after they've been found two years ago.

Militias are paranoid fucks. The Trump movement is aimless, with no direction, no leadership, no goal other than 'we've got to save our nation'.
 
SLD said:
blastula said:
Most of Pence's precious 74 million support the coup attempt that included his lynching. Most of them believe the election was stolen
Click to expand...
I stil wonder what the impact would be had they truly committed the violence they espoused. And I have no doubt that they would have. Granted it would have been difficult for them to breach Pence’s security detail because they would have shot anyone trying to attack him without qualms. The shooting of Ashli Babbit shows that the rioters could have been stopped by a few well placed shots. No one went further after she was shot.

But Romney barely escaped. What would have happened had the guard not found him going in the wrong direction and they confronted him openly? He would have been a prime target having voted for impeachment. Or what if the officer who shot Babbit hadn’t and they breached the chamber with such representatives as Pelosi and AOC? If they had killed someone, would we even have this debate? It would clearly been on Trump. Would the Republicans still be so enamored with this fucking asshole? It’s only by sheer luck that they didn’t catch at least one of these folks off guard.

I suspect not much would change. The Republican Party would still be excusing what happened. It was Antifa infiltrators, because Trumper would never do something like that. They would mock the idea of holding Trump accountable because, after all, he didn’t really incite the violence and he didn’t actually kill anyone personally.
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You can compare what Republican leaders were saying the early days following 1/6. Many of them were condemning Trump, and now the same ones are back to kissing the ring again. e.g., McCarthy, Graham.
 
I honestly didn't know if this belongs in this thread or the day without stupid thread:


www.politico.com

Bernard Kerik provides batch of documents to Jan. 6 select committee

The former New York City Police commissioner also provided a “privilege log” describing materials he declined to provide to the committee.
www.politico.com www.politico.com

I'll be honest, I had no idea who the fuck Bernard Kerik was. And then upon reading the wikipedia page describing his history, of course the cunt would be working for Giuliani to aid in a coup. And it appears he is just as competent as Rudy. One of the documents he surrendered was a 10 day plan to reinstate God-Emperor Trump back to his rightful throne. It does all the classic hits; Arizona votes were full of dead people, Hugo Chavez was helping Dominion to overthrow the election etc and then when you get page 16, you find a list his team has compiled of "Social Media Conservative Influencers". Here is the document, but I'll quote page 16.

huh.png


Now I'm not a conservative, but one of these is not like the others. Though I do find it hilarious that Sam Seder is a greater influence to conservatives than Steven Crowder or Michael Knowles. It almost makes me wish a certain someone was still around pontificating his idiocy; I would have loved to have gotten his take from this.
 
Patooka said:
I'll be honest, I had no idea who the fuck Bernard Kerik was.
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Last time I checked, he was one of the biggest pieces of shit that had ever been involved in New York police work. He was to Rudy what G. Gordon Liddy was to Nixon. A thuggish, corrupt enforcer. IIRC, Liddy got his own conservative talk show after he got out of prison.
 
Sean Hannity to Mark Meadows said:
We can't lose the entire WH counsel's office. I do not see January 6 happening the way he is being told. After the 6th. [sic] He should announce will lead the nationwide effort to reform voting integrity. Go to Fl and watch Joe mess up daily. Stay engaged. When he speaks people will listen.
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link

The intent seems pretty clear here. Trump tried to steal the election on January 6th. Didn't have a prayer, but it sounds like he thought Pence was going to decertify states to send the election to the House. McConnell and Pence did not act in ways he would have preferred.
 
These messages pretty much prove there was a "legal" coup attempted and it hinged on VP Pence asserting authority where it didn't belong. The coup had a large enough circle that people at Fox News knew about it.
 
article said:
The mother of Ashli Babbitt, the pro-Trump rioter who was killed when she stormed the Capitol last January, joined Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) on Thursday to talk about her daughter and criticize Capitol Police.

Micki Witthoeft stood next to Greene outside the Capitol and spoke about her daughter’s love of the country. “I miss her every day,” Witthoeft said in a video posted on social media. “I’m here because Americans do have the right to protest.”

She said her daughter came to Washington “to hear Donald Trump speak about a stolen election.” Witthoeft, blaming a “careless, reckless police officer” for her daughter’s death, delivered a broader attack on the Capitol Police force.
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It is tragic that anyone died in the insurrection, or the dozens of officers attacked and harmed. But what is disgraceful, is that Babbit's mother is saying her daughter had a right to protest. She was allowed that right to protest. She wasn't shot at the Trump "death to democracy" rally. She was shot inside the Capitol building trying to break through to get into a room with Congressional officials. That isn't protesting!

The security allowed people to enter certain areas, areas deemed expendable. Babbit was trying to force her way, and then the way of all those with her, into an area that was not deemed expendable.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
article said:
The mother of Ashli Babbitt, the pro-Trump rioter who was killed when she stormed the Capitol last January, joined Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) on Thursday to talk about her daughter and criticize Capitol Police.

Micki Witthoeft stood next to Greene outside the Capitol and spoke about her daughter’s love of the country. “I miss her every day,” Witthoeft said in a video posted on social media. “I’m here because Americans do have the right to protest.”

She said her daughter came to Washington “to hear Donald Trump speak about a stolen election.” Witthoeft, blaming a “careless, reckless police officer” for her daughter’s death, delivered a broader attack on the Capitol Police force.
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link

It is tragic that anyone died in the insurrection, or the dozens of officers attacked and harmed. But what is disgraceful, is that Babbit's mother is saying her daughter had a right to protest. She was allowed that right to protest. She wasn't shot at the Trump "death to democracy" rally. She was shot inside the Capitol building trying to break through to get into a room with Congressional officials. That isn't protesting!

The security allowed people to enter certain areas, areas deemed expendable. Babbit was trying to force her way, and then the way of all those with her, into an area that was not deemed expendable.
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Can you imagine How Derec would react to that statement if it was made by a black mom of a black guy that got shot by a cop?
 
I remember watching this on television. I can't even begin to imagine Trump giving a speech anything like this. Nixon was previously the most corrupt President in my lifetime. Watching this contrasted with the reports of Trump "gleefully" watching the Capitol riots a year ago is a helluva thing. This is how far we have fallen.

 
Lindsey Graham was 'very disrespectful' in meeting with Jan. 6 officers - Raw Story - Celebrating 17 Years of Independent Journalism
Sandra Garza, the longtime partner of Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick, who died shortly after the Jan. 6 attack, accused Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., of being "very disrespectful" during a meeting about a commission proposal that was rejected by Republicans.

Garza joined former D.C. Police Officer Michael Fanone, who was badly injured by the rioters, and other officers involved in the response in meeting with Republican senators in May. Most of those senators told the officers how "tragic" they found the attack, thanked them for their service and made eye contact during the meeting, according to the New York Times.
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The Capitol Police and the Scars of the January 6th Riot - The New York Times

But Graham's behavior upset Garza to the point where she confronted him, she told the outlet.

As Fanone recounted the attack he survived, Graham appeared "bored and distracted," she said. "I said, 'I feel like you're being very disrespectful, and you're looking out the window and tapping your fingers on the desk,'" she recalled.

Another senator present at the meeting told Garza that she was "misreading" Graham's body language, which only "infuriated" her more, she told the Times.

Capitol Police Officer Harry Dunn, who also attended the meetings, told the outlet he was equally angry that the Republican senators refused to commit to doing the "minimum" in response to the attack. Graham, who made a "big show of how angry" he was with the riot, opposed the commission, he recalled. Sen. Tim Scott, R-S.C., who was also in the meeting, told the officers that while he and Graham agreed that there should be "accountability" for the attack, they would not back an independent commission, Dunn told the Times.

Graham said after the meeting that he had a "very productive" discussion with Garza and the officers but opposed the commission because it would "turn into a partisan food fight."
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Not participating in it then complaining about how partisan it is... like killing one's parents and then begging for mercy because one is an orphan.
 
From half a year ago: Conservatives go after Capitol police officers who testified before Jan. 6 commission | Salon.com - "Right-wing media pundits spent much of Tuesday attacking the cops who fought off a violent mob on January 6"

And they came to love cops.

Newsmax cuts away from Marjorie Taylor Greene in the middle of her rant against the FBI - Raw Story - Celebrating 17 Years of Independent Journalism
The right-wing TV network was covering the press conference conducted by Greene and Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL), in which the two right-wing lawmakers accused the federal government of orchestrating the January 6th Capitol riots.

"You know what I think needs to be the biggest investigation in United States history?" Greene said during a lengthy rant. "What is going on at the FBI and what is happening at the Department of Justice? And the American people deserve those answers because it's the American people and the taxpayers that pay for all of it! Now I don't want to have anything to do with a government that is going to be so obsessed with overturning regime change in our own country when it should be serving the American people, particularly..."
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The Newsmax host then cut away from MTG.
"All right, Marjorie Taylor Greene," the host said. "With Congressman Matt Gaetz there, putting forth some of the arguments from the Republican side that you certainly didn't hear today from President Biden and the Democrats."
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BREAKING: Gaetz, Marjorie Taylor Greene Hold Presser On The 'Truth Of The Jan. 6th Protests' - YouTube
Matt Gaetz and MTG both proposed that the FBI was somehow involved in the attacks.
 
Riot committee 'aggressively' shifts focus to criminal conspiracy charges against Trump and GOP lawmakers: report - Raw Story - Celebrating 17 Years of Independent Journalism
noting
Capitol attack panel investigates Trump over potential criminal conspiracy | US Capitol attack | The Guardian - "Messages between Mark Meadows and others suggest the Trump White House coordinated efforts to stop Joe Biden’s certification"
The committee’s new focus on the potential for a conspiracy marks an aggressive escalation in its inquiry as it confronts evidence that suggests the former president potentially engaged in criminal conduct egregious enough to warrant a referral to the justice department.

House investigators are interested in whether Trump oversaw a criminal conspiracy after communications turned over by Trump’s former chief of staff Mark Meadows and others suggested the White House coordinated efforts to stop Biden’s certification, the sources said.

The select committee has several thousand messages, among which include some that suggest the Trump White House briefed a number of House Republicans on its plan for then-vice president Mike Pence to abuse his ceremonial role and not certify Biden’s win, the sources said.
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About time. The problem so far is that it's hard to pin anything outright criminal onto Trump. He didn't record himself as much as some of his followers did when they attacked the Capitol.
 
Rep. Ilhan Omar on Twitter: "Today marks one year since the attacks of January 6th. I will never forget the experience of fearing for my life, my fellow members, and staff on a day designed to show the strength of our democracy." / Twitter
Then a tweet thread, ending with
Rep. Ilhan Omar Statement on One Year Anniversary of January 6th Insurrection | Representative Ilhan Omar
Today marks one year since the attacks of January 6th. I will never forget the experience of fearing for my life, my fellow members, and staff on a day designed to show the strength of our democracy. I will never forget the call I made to the father of my children, asking him to tell my children I loved them if I couldn’t.

...
I know personally what happens when a government fails, civil strife takes hold, and people are displaced. And I know that coup attempts are rarely one-time affairs.

...
The next coup is not only possible; it has already begun.

...
To stop the next coup, we must reinvigorate the democratic experience. That requires, at a minimum, passing the John Lewis Voting Rights Act and strengthening election laws around the country to prevent the next coup. But it also requires reforming our institutions so that they are once again responsive to the core demands of our constituents. That requires abolishing fundamentally antidemocratic elements of our system like the Senate filibuster and the electoral college, and it requires major investments in childcare, education, health and climate like the Build Back Better Act.

The coup attempt on January 6th was a warning for what’s to come if we don’t act. The work to prevent the next coup begins now.
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