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January 6 Hearings Live

Jimmy Higgins

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America has always been bout that cash yo. Claimed independence over it, enslaved Africans because of it, & voted a dickhead into its high office for it.
Trump was elected because of white supremacism, not cash.
The white supremacists are the minority.
Minority, yes. Small minority? No. The one's wearing hoods, small group. The evangelicals? Much much larger. We learned with 2016 that there were a few types of Republicans: racist evangelicals, evangelicals that'd sell their souls to the devil for courts to rule over sex, hyper-partisans, and a few of them are actually principled conservatives.

The Majority of Trump supporters are a combination of people dealing with some level of poverty and living with unfounded concerns about threats to their way of life (like gun ownership and Christian values).
No. No. And No. What we learned on January 6th, which consisted of a lot of middle to upper class white people, a lot of white people are sick of no longer being the defacto owners of America by default. Yes, Trump has support among the poor, but he has a good deal of support among not poor white people as well. It has little to do with economics and much more to do with race. These opinions have been cultivated by the right-wing since Nixon's adoption of the Southern Strategy and things really got going with Limbaugh and then Fox News. Things are so bad, these people think Fox News is part of the MSM and they need Newsmax or OANN.
Every type of Trump supporter you've mentioned can be tied to a cash-driven purpose.
Yeah, no.
Many evangelicals are seeking financial blessings (prosperity) from the lord by voting according to what they believe God expects (like no abortion & gay sex).
But it has nothing to do with spirituality or god.
White people, that are sick of no longer being defacto owners of America are seeking to hold on to what exactly? Hint, it's related to wealth.
Status.
Racism itself was and still is a tool used to exploit people for profit.
For the GOP it is political power. For Fox it is ratings and commercial advertisement money. For the average person, it is personal.
 

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His Flatulence was the nutcase in charge, but he's not the driving force.
And why would you make this claim? You are saying a segment of the population is responsible for Orange's behavior?
Trump's behaviour was irrelevant until 62,985,153 voters made him POTUS in 2016.
Tell that to his debt holders. And those he fooled into investing in his failed casino venture. The other owners in the USFL which was catching as Spring league.
They may not have been among the 62,985,153 voters who made him POTUS in 2016, so there's no need of telling them.
You said "Trump's behaviour was irrelevant" until the 2016 election, but that wasn't true. His actions had ad consequences before that. When he won the electoral college in 2016, he would just end up breaking the next thing he touched, as per the norm.
The magnitude of the consequences of Trump's behaviour after 62,985,153 voters made him POTUS makes the consequences of his behaviour prior to that inconsequential. This is why Trump's presidency is but a symptom of the US's disease.
 

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But it has nothing to do with spirituality or god.
Yet their spiritual relationship with God is expected to manifest itself on earth in what way? Wealth
Status = Wealth

political power

And what do they expect to gain from political power? Wealth
Hmmm

I don't think it's necessarily about wealth. Sometimes Usually power is its own purpose to such people.

Wealth, what you understand of wealth, is "power to". You can toss money and be able to do anything.

Read Ursula K LeGuin's forward to "The Tombs of Atuan", if you haven't, and then recall that while reading your statement

But for some people, they seek to have power over others.

They want to be as petty and cruel as their god, on whom they bestow the right of Divine Command.

The thing is, god is only ever a metaphor for the self for such folks
 

Gospel

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Nice but without wealth you can't pay cronies to help you exert your power.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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But it has nothing to do with spirituality or god.
Yet their spiritual relationship with God is expected to manifest itself on earth in what way? Wealth
Status = Wealth
I'm reminded of Hotel Rwanda, where the manager is explaining bribes and how cash is cash, but cigars and alcohol provide class, status. This isn't about wealth. It is about being up top (even if they aren't remotely near the top).
political power
And what do they expect to gain from political power? Wealth
Firstly, most white people aren't wealthy, though almost all wealthy people are white.

The key to status is that even if you aren't rich, you are still white and part of the machine chewing up other people. There are others left, below you, to piss on. Some people need to be able to think they can piss on others.

The people on January 6th were mostly not poor. They were middle to upper class white people, fighting for an America to return to its glory days of closet gays, no African American Month, and when things were generally perfect (actually point in time never existed). Again, status, not wealth.
 

Gospel

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The reason the "New World" was sought after was for wealth. The primary reason America declared independence is because the British Empire tried to fuck with that wealth. Africans were enslaved for wealth. The constitution in all its glory is wealth's infamous shield.

The people on January 6th were mostly not poor.

The poor, rich, and in between all care about wealth.

The key to status is that even if you aren't rich, you are still white and part of the machine chewing up other people.

Sounds to me like someone considers that machine a valuable possession.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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The reason the "New World" was sought after was for wealth. The primary reason America declared independence is because the British Empire tried to fuck with that wealth. Africans were enslaved for wealth. The constitution in all its glory is wealth's infamous shield.
The people on January 6th were mostly not poor.
The poor, rich, and in between all care about wealth.
Yes, you keep saying that. It isn't what is happening though.
The key to status is that even if you aren't rich, you are still white and part of the machine chewing up other people.
Sounds to me like someone considers that machine a valuable possession.
It is a metaphor.
 

Gospel

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Yes, you keep saying that. It isn't what is happening though.

Make America Great Again was Trump's slogan. The slogan denotes that America is in decline. Looking at America's foundation and its principles both having everything to do with wealth tells me, yes, that's exactly what the fuck is happening here.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Yes, you keep saying that. It isn't what is happening though.
Make America Great Again was Trump's slogan. The slogan denotes that America is in decline. Looking at America's foundation and its principles both having everything to do with wealth tells me, yes, that's exactly what the fuck is happening here.
Yeah, no on that again. Yes, it implies America is in a decline. But it isn't "America" he's referencing. He's talking about White Heterosexual America.
 

Angry Floof

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Nice but without wealth you can't pay cronies to help you exert your power.

One kind of power might be where even a broke ass authority figure hijacks a hive mind of bigotry and stupidity that can be directed at his cronies and enemies alike.
Edit: but granted, a perception of wealth and promises to share it.
 

Gospel

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Yes, you keep saying that. It isn't what is happening though.
Make America Great Again was Trump's slogan. The slogan denotes that America is in decline. Looking at America's foundation and its principles both having everything to do with wealth tells me, yes, that's exactly what the fuck is happening here.
Yeah, no on that again. Yes, it implies America is in a decline. But it isn't "America" he's referencing. He's talking about White Heterosexual America.

Hmm, I wonder why that slogan successfully appealed to White Heterosexual Americans. Could it be that they value certain American principles? It's a wonder what those principles are... :cautious:
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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We might say that orange exploited the stupidity that runs amok in the U.S. Uninformed butthurt white people were and remain his primary supporters.
 

Gospel

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I'm reminded of Hotel Rwanda, where the manager is explaining bribes and how cash is cash, but cigars and alcohol provide class, status. This isn't about wealth. It is about being up top (even if they aren't remotely near the top).

Cigars and alcohol being used for class & status would fit nicely under the webster's definition of wealth.
 

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Yes, you keep saying that. It isn't what is happening though.
Make America Great Again was Trump's slogan. The slogan denotes that America is in decline. Looking at America's foundation and its principles both having everything to do with wealth tells me, yes, that's exactly what the fuck is happening here.
Yeah, no on that again. Yes, it implies America is in a decline. But it isn't "America" he's referencing. He's talking about White Heterosexual America.
Which, to be honest, is the only kind of America that Trump and his cronies care about or recognize.
 

Gospel

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Won't happen. Politics and bullshit concerns over democracy itself will be the smoke and mirrors used to avoid the previous administration being held accountable. I think what the January 6th Committee hopes to achieve is to sell Americans on the idea that democracy was in trouble that day and it could get worse if we don't send a message now by holding Trump and his minions accountable. Judging by what Republican voters have sent sailing into offices across America I think the Committee's sales numbers are on par with, Toys“R”Us, Blockbusters & Radio shack.
 

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Holy shit, that was funny.

"Phony Soprano" My new favorite nickname for Trump.
 

ZiprHead

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The threats were also directed against the election workers mother and grandmother…,

Extremely upsetting to hear of the personal threats directed towards the family if the AZ SOS while their daughter was dying in their home! And against not only election workers but their elderly mother/grandmother.
She and her mother should sue the lot of them into oblivion.
Seen Elsewhere said:
Moss and Freeman can't sue because the Orange Turd made his accusations while he was still POTUS:

"In a 5–4 decision, the Court ruled that the President is entitled to absolute immunity from legal liability for civil damages based on his official acts. The Court, however, emphasized that the President is not immune from criminal charges stemming from his official or unofficial acts while he is in office."
Nixon v. Fitzgerald

Defamation is a civil, not a criminal, tort.
Shit...
 

ZiprHead

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The threats were also directed against the election workers mother and grandmother…,

Extremely upsetting to hear of the personal threats directed towards the family if the AZ SOS while their daughter was dying in their home! And against not only election workers but their elderly mother/grandmother.
She and her mother should sue the lot of them into oblivion.
Seen Elsewhere said:
Moss and Freeman can't sue because the Orange Turd made his accusations while he was still POTUS:

"In a 5–4 decision, the Court ruled that the President is entitled to absolute immunity from legal liability for civil damages based on his official acts. The Court, however, emphasized that the President is not immune from criminal charges stemming from his official or unofficial acts while he is in office."
Nixon v. Fitzgerald

Defamation is a civil, not a criminal, tort.
Shit...
Guess I spoke too soon.

April 21 (Reuters) - Two Georgia election workers who were the target of vote-rigging conspiracy theories have reached a settlement agreement with the far-right One America News Network in their defamation lawsuit against the outlet, according to court papers filed on Thursday.

Wandrea "Shaye" Moss, a voter registration officer in Fulton County, and Ruby Freeman, Moss's mother and a temp worker for the 2020 election, sued OAN officials along with former U.S. President Donald Trump's ex-lawyer Rudy Giuliani for allegedly spreading lies about them in their efforts to overturn Trump's election loss. read more


The agreement announced on Thursday in U.S. District Court in Washington will result in Moss and Freeman's asking Chief Judge Beryl Howell to dismiss the OAN defendants from the litigation. In addition to the network itself, those defendants are OAN Chief Executive Robert Herring, President Charles Herring and reporter Chanel Rion.

Terms of the settlement were not disclosed in a joint status report filed with the court.
Lawsuits against Ghouliani and the Gateway Pundit are stillin process.

:cheer:
 

Elixir

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So, armed creeps broke into the home of an election worker’s family… and are not in jail afaik.
What do we think will happen if one of those being threatened decides to “stand their ground” and starts spraying lead, perforating Trumpsuckers that step onto their property?
 

Loren Pechtel

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His Flatulence was the nutcase in charge, but he's not the driving force.
And why would you make this claim? You are saying a segment of the population is responsible for Orange's behavior?
I'm saying there's a segment of the population that would have voted for anyone who espoused his basic views, whether it was the nutcase or not. He didn't create his backers, he capitalized on them.
 

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Hearing starts at 3pm eastern tomorrow. The focus will be on the pressure put on the DOJ by the administration.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Yes, you keep saying that. It isn't what is happening though.

Make America Great Again was Trump's slogan. The slogan denotes that America is in decline. Looking at America's foundation and its principles both having everything to do with wealth tells me, yes, that's exactly what the fuck is happening here.
If you're a redneck America probably looks like it's in a decline. If you're a religious fundie it looks like it's in decline.

That doesn't mean it is to the rest of us, though.
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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His Flatulence was the nutcase in charge, but he's not the driving force.
And why would you make this claim? You are saying a segment of the population is responsible for Orange's behavior?
I'm saying there's a segment of the population that would have voted for anyone who espoused his basic views, whether it was the nutcase or not. He didn't create his backers, he capitalized on them.
Of course. But orange and his backers are still responsible for their behavior. We shouldn't be making excuses for them.
 

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The latest hearings dealt heavily with Eastman and the fake elector scheme. Apparently, DOJ is now acting. A GOP participent in this from Georgia has just been subpeonaed. And two Nevada participants are in trouble. One had his phone confiscated by agents of the DOJ and the search is on for the second. Now the question is what else is going on at DOJ as far as this goes? And what did Trump know about this fake elector scheme and when did he know it?

Follow those bread crumbs!
 

Cheerful Charlie

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The January 6 Comittee has now subpeonaed 14 people from 7 states. And the usual rules are in order. The first to cooperate get the best deals fom the authorities.

Hums "That's the sound of the men working on the chain gang".
 

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What a parade of scumbags.
There seems to be agreement among the treason scumbag community (aka the GOP) that they will pretend not to know these hearings are even happening. No response whatsoever.
 

Loren Pechtel

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His Flatulence was the nutcase in charge, but he's not the driving force.
And why would you make this claim? You are saying a segment of the population is responsible for Orange's behavior?
I'm saying there's a segment of the population that would have voted for anyone who espoused his basic views, whether it was the nutcase or not. He didn't create his backers, he capitalized on them.
Of course. But orange and his backers are still responsible for their behavior. We shouldn't be making excuses for them.
I'm not making excuses. I'm saying the same factors would have been at work even without the orange turd. He just brought them out of the woodwork.
 

Elixir

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I'm not making excuses. I'm saying the same factors would have been at work even without the orange turd. He just brought them out of the woodwork.

We’d be better off if they had stayed in the woodwork.
And I disagree that “they” would have voted for anyone espousing Trump’s views.
He doesn't have views. The lemmings voted for a personality.
 

ZiprHead

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That video testimony showed that Republican Representatives Andy Biggs, Mo Brooks, Matt Gaetz, Louie Gohmert and Scott Perry sought pardons from Trump, which could have inoculated them against prosecution for any activities they may have engaged in before or during the Jan. 6 riot at the Capitol.
 

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The big take away of today's hearings was that the bizarre conspiracy theories Trump presented from the internet ond conspiracists were systematicaly debunked and Trump was informed of that in no uncertain terms. After Barr resigned, Trump ran through AGs and still could not get somebody tothrough the election. He finally found his yesman in Jeffery Clark. But when at aWhitehouse meeting he quizzed the soon to be deposed AG refused to be an assistant AG to Clark and stated he would resign, all present at that meeting also stated they would resign. And Trump was warned that hundreds of DOJ officials would resign. And that government agencies such as the FBI would refuse to take orders from Clark. Trump was forced to back down. A few days later Trump went to his backup plan. The January 6 insurrection.

Clark was questioned by the committee and took the Fifth over 100 times. Next up, what exactly did Trump do after he realized appointing Clark would result in mass DOJ resignations?
 

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Jeffrey Clark's home was raided and searched by the FBI this morning. Announced by ABC News just before 3 pm. They said Clark was standing out in the street watching in his pajamas.

Holy Crap!
 

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Mutterings that Ivanka Trump may have committed perjury have appeared:
CBSNews.com said:
Following the meeting, Holder's lawyer, Russell Smith, said that there were "inconsistencies" in Ivanka Trump's remarks.

"That's why we're cooperating with the committee, and they can determine whether there was perjury or something less than that," Smith told reporters.
 

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Jeffrey Clark's home was raided and searched by the FBI this morning. Announced by ABC News just before 3 pm. They said Clark was standing out in the street watching in his pajamas.

Holy Crap!

Here is Tucker Carlson's response to the pajamas.

1656074155744.png
 

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Why was he standing out in the street? Did the FBI throw him out while they searched his house?

This reminds me of a story a friend told me about once when he wrecked his car while driving drunk and he got out of his car and pretended to be an onlooker. lol

Jeffrey Clark: Wow, what's going on? Whose house is that getting raided? What a loser. LOL
 

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Jimmy Higgins

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I thought 1/6 was bad. The investigation, which has effectively been using Trump appointed, GOP approved people in the Trump Admin as all the witnesses, has been even more damning than I thought. If a trial could be held before a judge, Trump would be convicted of sedition and conspiracy to commit sedition.
 

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I thought 1/6 was bad. The investigation, which has effectively been using Trump appointed, GOP approved people in the Trump Admin as all the witnesses, has been even more damning than I thought. If a trial could be held before a judge, Trump would be convicted of sedition and conspiracy to commit sedition.

It is a sad and scary fact that the fate of this country might very well end up resting in the mentally incompetent hands of some trumpsucking juror who will refuse to convict the orange menace, no matter who airtight the evidence against him.
 

prideandfall

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I thought 1/6 was bad. The investigation, which has effectively been using Trump appointed, GOP approved people in the Trump Admin as all the witnesses, has been even more damning than I thought. If a trial could be held before a judge, Trump would be convicted of sedition and conspiracy to commit sedition.

It is a sad and scary fact that the fate of this country might very well end up resting in the mentally incompetent hands of some trumpsucking juror who will refuse to convict the orange menace, no matter who airtight the evidence against him.
if it's any consolation, it won't come to that - because this will never lead to any sort of criminal trial.

a select committee is simply an investigative body which can then make recommendations to other agencies on actions to pursue.
there is zero chance that the committee will make a strong proposal for criminal prosecution of trump or anyone else, at best they might issue a public statement saying "eehhh maybe someone should do something, if they feel like it maybe?" about the whole thing.

if by some longshot impossible odds miracle the DOJ or FBI or someone actually took all the evidence from the hearing and built a case against trump et al, the repubs would flip the utter fuck out about it and the dems would instantly capitulate and apologize for being 'partisan' and there would be a unified governmental PR front to stop any formal criminal investigation "for the sake of unity and moving forward"

so, your fear is unfounded - there will never be a trial at all on which a trump supporter could be a juror.
 

Elixir

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if by some longshot impossible odds miracle the DOJ or FBI or someone actually took all the evidence from the hearing and built a case against trump et al, the repubs would flip the utter fuck out about it and the dems would instantly capitulate and apologize for being 'partisan' and there would be a unified governmental PR front to stop any formal criminal investigation "for the sake of unity and moving forward"

I do not think that is so.
IF by some longshot the DOJ (the only entity actually empowered to do anything about it) took up a criminal prosecution, it would be because they
* knew they had evidence enough to convict, and
* had the support of 75+ percent of the American public in doing so, indicating that some lone trumpsucker would be unlikely to make it onto the jury.
There will be some lower-level criminals who will face the music first, and (I think and hope) those trials will force the emergence of even more facts of presidential misconduct.
I know we're not there yet, but just this morning I saw a post from a midwestern conservative online friend expressing that no matter how much she dislikes Biden, no matter how bad a job she believes he has done and is doing, she will vote for literally ANYONE running against Dolt45. This is completely new from her, just since the hearings began. I don't know how she got exposed to what was revealed, having been insulated under the RW propaganda blanket for years. But the hearing have hardly begun to have any significant effect yet. I know, that offers no assurance that they ever will, hence "by some longshot", but the conditions I outlined are not impossible.

Yes, if I had to bet, I'd bet we are in an inexorable slide toward fascism, but I've lost some bets that looked more solid.
 

prideandfall

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if by some longshot impossible odds miracle the DOJ or FBI or someone actually took all the evidence from the hearing and built a case against trump et al, the repubs would flip the utter fuck out about it and the dems would instantly capitulate and apologize for being 'partisan' and there would be a unified governmental PR front to stop any formal criminal investigation "for the sake of unity and moving forward"

I do not think that is so.
i mean, ok... but i don't get why.
have you been aware of anything politically in the US for the last 60 years?
politicians do not face consequences for their criminal actions involved in the process of governance.
the only actions politicians face consequences for are social faux pas, and sometimes those will end up being intertwined with politics, but nothing actually ever *happens*
 

Jimmy Higgins

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I thought 1/6 was bad. The investigation, which has effectively been using Trump appointed, GOP approved people in the Trump Admin as all the witnesses, has been even more damning than I thought. If a trial could be held before a judge, Trump would be convicted of sedition and conspiracy to commit sedition.

It is a sad and scary fact that the fate of this country might very well end up resting in the mentally incompetent hands of some trumpsucking juror who will refuse to convict the orange menace, no matter who airtight the evidence against him.
if it's any consolation, it won't come to that - because this will never lead to any sort of criminal trial.

a select committee is simply an investigative body which can then make recommendations to other agencies on actions to pursue.
there is zero chance that the committee will make a strong proposal for criminal prosecution of trump or anyone else, at best they might issue a public statement saying "eehhh maybe someone should do something, if they feel like it maybe?" about the whole thing.

if by some longshot impossible odds miracle the DOJ or FBI or someone actually took all the evidence from the hearing and built a case against trump et al, the repubs would flip the utter fuck out about it and the dems would instantly capitulate and apologize for being 'partisan' and there would be a unified governmental PR front to stop any formal criminal investigation "for the sake of unity and moving forward"

so, your fear is unfounded - there will never be a trial at all on which a trump supporter could be a juror.
Okay, this has been repeated many times, initially by the Special Prosecutor. This is a Constitutional Problem with a Constitutional Solution. Impeachment is the only real solution. POTUS has ridiculous levels of protection from investigation. The only thing that protects the country from this absurd protection is the people who were President before, typically took that seriously. Trump didn't. And the GOP is on course for turning this into a single party state.

All things equal, this investigation can't get much more damning than it has been. In a perfect world, Trump, Giuliani, Brooks all are put into prison for inciting a riot that got people killed. This world isn't perfect, our Constitution isn't bullet proof, our Democracy is dying.
 

Elixir

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if by some longshot impossible odds miracle the DOJ or FBI or someone actually took all the evidence from the hearing and built a case against trump et al, the repubs would flip the utter fuck out about it and the dems would instantly capitulate and apologize for being 'partisan' and there would be a unified governmental PR front to stop any formal criminal investigation "for the sake of unity and moving forward"

I do not think that is so.
i mean, ok... but i don't get why.
have you been aware of anything politically in the US for the last 60 years?
Not quite 60 years. My political activism began with getting tear-gassed at an SDS demonstration ca. 1966, so give me another few years.
politicians do not face consequences for their criminal actions involved in the process of governance.
John Mitchell went to jail, Howard Hunt went to jail, Ehrlichman went to jail, Liddy went to jail, Dwight Chapin went to jail, Howard Hunt went to jail, Chuck Colson went to jail, and IIRC there were a bunch more whose names escape at the moment. All for a relatively minor episode that destroyed a presidency.
the only actions politicians face consequences for are social faux pas, and sometimes those will end up being intertwined with politics, but nothing actually ever *happens*
I acknowledge that since the Cheato Junta came to power, that is more the case than ever. But it is not carved in stone, and has not always been that way - even over the last 60 56 years. Even jailing the likes of Eastman, Clark et al would have a chilling effect on the fascists.
 
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