January 6 Hearings Live

[Jimmy Higgins]

The video at this Twitter link seems to show Capitol police deliberately retreating to allow the Deplorables pass a barricade. What's with that?

I don't know, but I think we should note some things. There's a guy or maybe more than one guy behind the police, one with the phone and the other is waving the people his way. There's also people already past the barrier, but adjacent to this guy along another path who apparently already got past barriers. It is kind of silly that people are behind a barrier if they can just walk around the side with the other people. I think this needs to be investigated so we can understand the context. One thing I heard is that the police had given up to retreat inside. Then once inside was breached, some gave up ground again to move directly closer to the elected officials to protect them. I don't know if that is actually true because of some videos I saw online has police hanging out with the rioters and so this should be investigated thoroughly.

This. It is impossible to know the tactics that were used inside. There were definitely priorities of areas to protect. And the security outside was clearly insufficient. Pretty much security has to be as high as the protest is willing to rebel. It wasn't and those officers outside didn't sign up for getting murdered. They didn't hold the line, because the hoarde of the Schoolboy Riot was much too large for them to contain. The fact not a hair was harmed on any worker in the Capitol (excluding police) implies the security held where it mattered most.

The biggest problem with situations like this is that when you clearly have no cause, and lots of potential hostages, and are particularly stupid, things can go south very fast.

So the complaint is why in the fuck were the officers outside the building provided with an inadequate level of force. One answer could be, "Well, this ain't never happened before". Of course, Clinton, HW Bush, Dole weren't rallying over fake fraud just before the EV count either.

To make things simple, the President of the United States and his lawyer incited a riot, and they are the primary cause and the issues regarding security are secondary because in the past that had never happened before. And why the fuck is Trump still President?! Where the fuck is that Cabinet?

 

[lpetrich]

Tracking Viral Misinformation: Latest Updates - The New York Times - "No, there is no evidence that antifa activists stormed the Capitol."

There’s No Evidence Antifa Was Involved In The Attempted Coup At The Capitol - "Right-wing figures have spread baseless claims that antifa was behind Wednesday’s violent insurrection at the Capitol."

PolitiFact | A day of crisis at the US Capitol, fact-checked

• Multiple commentators called the actions by Trump supporters who stormed the Capitol “sedition,” a characterization supported by many legal experts.
• President Donald Trump falsely said that Vice President Mike Pence could send the results back to the states and recertify and then he would become president again. Pence did not.
• Sen. Ted Cruz inflated the number of people who believe the election was “rigged.”
• As the Capitol went into lockdown, a GOP congressman suggested without evidence that the people who stormed the Capitol were antifa activists in disguise.

Were Pro-Trump Mobs Storming the Capitol on Jan. 6 Actually Antifa? - "There was no evidence anyone but a mob of Trump supporters stormed Capitol grounds."

A lot of right-wingers are now dismissing the attackers as "Antifa", a loose network of activists that right-wingers have inflated into a big army of left-wing Proud Boys.


Rioters Taking Over The Capitol Planned It Online - "The mob that forced Congress to flee organized on both obscure and mainstream sites."

The supporters of President Donald Trump who rioted in the US Capitol building on Wednesday had been openly planning for weeks on both mainstream social media and the pro-Trump internet. On forums like TheDonald, a niche website formed after Reddit banned the subreddit of the same name, they promised violence against lawmakers, police, and journalists if Congress did not reject the results of the 2020 election.

In one interaction four days ago, a person on TheDonald asked, “What if Congress ignores the evidence?”

“Storm the Capitol,” one replied, which received more than 500 upvotes.

“You’re fucking right we do,” another said.

 

[EvoUK]

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yeah, that isn't planning. What happened was a plan or "We storm The Capitol" was all the plan consisted of. They were incited into a frenzy, got in the building, ...., Saved America. Funniest thing, someone wrote a note "We won't back down".... but they did back down, in a like an hour.

The far right-wing is out of their mind. (All arguments I've seen!)

• 'It was Antifa!'
• 'It was a peaceful protest!'
• 'It was the Reichstag Fire!'

All perfectly incompatible concepts.

It was Antifa!
Implies it was violent and other people did it.

It was a peaceful!
Implies it was perfectly normal behavior by Trump supporters.

It was the Reichstag Fire!
Government false flag event to perpetuate lie that Trump supporters committed violent act.

 

[Swammerdami]

So, the deplorable Senators learned what damage their seditious lies could cause and, instead of going ahead with their planned six acts of criminal sedition they contented themselves with just two more acts of sedition that day.

Thanks, I guess?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Tracking Viral Misinformation: Latest Updates - The New York Times - "No, there is no evidence that antifa activists stormed the Capitol."

There’s No Evidence Antifa Was Involved In The Attempted Coup At The Capitol - "Right-wing figures have spread baseless claims that antifa was behind Wednesday’s violent insurrection at the Capitol."

PolitiFact | A day of crisis at the US Capitol, fact-checked

• Multiple commentators called the actions by Trump supporters who stormed the Capitol “sedition,” a characterization supported by many legal experts.
• President Donald Trump falsely said that Vice President Mike Pence could send the results back to the states and recertify and then he would become president again. Pence did not.
• Sen. Ted Cruz inflated the number of people who believe the election was “rigged.”
• As the Capitol went into lockdown, a GOP congressman suggested without evidence that the people who stormed the Capitol were antifa activists in disguise.

Were Pro-Trump Mobs Storming the Capitol on Jan. 6 Actually Antifa? - "There was no evidence anyone but a mob of Trump supporters stormed Capitol grounds."

A lot of right-wingers are now dismissing the attackers as "Antifa", a loose network of activists that right-wingers have inflated into a big army of left-wing Proud Boys.


Rioters Taking Over The Capitol Planned It Online - "The mob that forced Congress to flee organized on both obscure and mainstream sites."

The supporters of President Donald Trump who rioted in the US Capitol building on Wednesday had been openly planning for weeks on both mainstream social media and the pro-Trump internet. On forums like TheDonald, a niche website formed after Reddit banned the subreddit of the same name, they promised violence against lawmakers, police, and journalists if Congress did not reject the results of the 2020 election.

In one interaction four days ago, a person on TheDonald asked, “What if Congress ignores the evidence?”

“Storm the Capitol,” one replied, which received more than 500 upvotes.

“You’re fucking right we do,” another said.

I had just made a thread on this:
https://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?23127-Proud-Boys-complicity

 

[blastula]

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/V1lxgqOdmUc[/YOUTUBE]

Conor Lamb was the only one I saw who directly called out fellow Congress members for causing the attack. The Republican inciters got butthurt about it, interrupting his time. "The truth hurts," he retorted.

Mitt Romney did tell senators to call off all objections. He also called out Trump directly. I didn't see any other Republicans do so.

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/4H6N0lqkvS8[/YOUTUBE]

About half of the dozen senators who had planned to object did not do so. And the ones that did, ended up objecting to only two states' votes, or one more after resuming. Should have heeded Romney.

About 120-130 House members still voted for both objections. 130!

Oh, and Rudi had another of his phone mishaps, he meant to call Senator Potatotown, but left a message on some other senator's phone and they leaked the audio.

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/eJIeB8h3AMM[/YOUTUBE]

He wanted the senator to object to 10 states' votes to slow down the proceedings so he can finally find the unobtainium evidence for them that will blow the case wide open. This call was made after the mob raid. After he had called for "trial by combat" at the mob pep rally.

 

[lpetrich]

One of those who participated in yesterday's attack on the Capitol was a "gentleman" who wore a horned furry helmet, khaki pants, and no shirt. On his bare chest were some Germanic symbols like Thor's Hammer.

As supporters of President Donald Trump stormed the US Capitol Building in a riot on Wednesday, one figure stood out among the mob: the "Q Shaman," aka Jake Angeli.

Angeli, known for wearing red, white, and blue face paint and a horned helmet, has become a notable figure in the QAnon conspiracy-theory movement, popping up at far-right rallies in Arizona in the past year, The Arizona Republic reported.

On Wednesday, Angeli took photos on the Senate dais and marched through the Capitol with a megaphone.

Arizona QAnon supporter Jake Angeli joins storming of U.S. Capitol

In February 2020, Angeli worked the crowd outside a rally in Phoenix for Trump.

He held up a tattered sign that read, “Q sent me,” and asked the crowd if they knew of the conspiracy. Several met him with affirmative nods.

“The snowball has been rolling and it’s only getting bigger,” Angeli said at the time. “We’re the mainstream now.”

...
Angeli was a fixture at rallies to re-open Arizona businesses shuttered by the government as a measure to prevent the spread of COVID-19. He has also been at rallies contesting the Arizona election results.

(6) Adrian Morrow on Twitter: "I spoke with Jake Angeli, the QAnon guy who got inside the Senate chamber. He said police eventually gave up trying to stop him and other Trump supporters, and let them in. After a while, he said police politely asked him to leave and let him go without arrest" / Twitter


As to those Germanic symbols, some white nationalists are followers of Asatru or Odinism, a revival or reinvention of old-time Germanic religion. They are into it as heritage. Here's an article about it: How a Thor-Worshipping Religion Turned Racist

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So these people will likely be arrested after the fact, much like how a fleeing unarmed black male can be arrested after the fact, without needing to be shot in the back. It was nice of this guy to provide testament to be used against him in his own trial.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Any bets on who will be first to accuse Angeli of being an antifa provocateur?

 

[KeepTalking]

Any bets on who will be first to accuse Angeli of being an antifa provocateur?

They already have. He is the Angry Viking I was talking about in another thread. Memes are already making the rounds claiming that he is antifa.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Any bets on who will be first to accuse Angeli of being an antifa provocateur?

They already have. He is the Angry Viking I was talking about in another thread. Memes are already making the rounds claiming that he is antifa.

But with Trump's Law, it is impossible to tell if the memes are actual accusations or ironic (both?).

 

[abaddon]

Any bets on who will be first to accuse Angeli of being an antifa provocateur?

My bet is that pretty much all possible false and contradictory claims that can be made will be made.

They're not victims of lies, they feel affirmed by lies. "This belief is a nicely nasty one, and I'll take this belief too, and that one and and that one and that one" is how many people "seek truth" in the Information Age.

 

[SLD]

I wondered if Trump viewed this as a potential Reichstag Fire moment? He did this so they would in fact destroy the capitol, and then he could demand dictatorial powers. It backfired on him. But I wonder how long he’ll go before he starts to tweet such bullshit. Will he demand the power to fully investigate what happened and catch and punish the perpetrators? He won’t get it of course. No matter what he wishes, this isn’t 1933 Germany.

 

[KeepTalking]

Any bets on who will be first to accuse Angeli of being an antifa provocateur?

They already have. He is the Angry Viking I was talking about in another thread. Memes are already making the rounds claiming that he is antifa.

But with Trump's Law, it is impossible to tell if the memes are actual accusations or ironic (both?).

The Trumpist who posted it on my feed certainly took at as given that he was antifa. She has since moved on to the position that the whole thing was a false flag operation because there was no way a mob could have gotten past the capital police.

 

[Jarhyn]

But with Trump's Law, it is impossible to tell if the memes are actual accusations or ironic (both?).

The Trumpist who posted it on my feed certainly took at as given that he was antifa. She has since moved on to the position that the whole thing was a false flag operation because there was no way a mob could have gotten past the capital police.

I wonder how she squares this away with the fact that many of the participants have Aesetru tats? I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm norse and love the pantheon, but the Aesetru religion has more of a white supremacist image problem than Islam has an Islamist problem fucking with their image and that's saying something.

 

[Swammerdami]

I wondered if Trump viewed this as a potential Reichstag Fire moment? He did this so they would in fact destroy the capitol, and then he could demand dictatorial powers. It backfired on him. But I wonder how long he’ll go before he starts to tweet such bullshit. Will he demand the power to fully investigate what happened and catch and punish the perpetrators? He won’t get it of course. No matter what he wishes, this isn’t 1933 Germany.

You give the Orange Dolt far too much credit. He's not a chess player who plans even 2 or 3 moves ahead; he's more like the pigeon who strolls across the chessboard laying turds and knocking over pieces and thinks he won the game. Even Don Jr. and Princess Ivanka came across as morons in this latest episode.

If Trump hadn't cheated his siblings and nieces out of his father's $1 billion-plus, he'd just be another racist cabdriver or carnival barker. It's frightening to imagine what damage there could have been if the GOP had supported a man this evil who could plan 2 or 3 moves ahead.

 

[ZiprHead]

Thom Hartmann report that at the RNC meeting this morning in Florida, Trump called into the meeting and was greeted enthusiastically by the membership when placed on the speakerphone. Shouts of "We love you!" were heard.

These people are beyond hope.

 

[lpetrich]

Photos: Pro-Trump rioters breach the US Capitol on historic day in Congress - lots of pictures

This is the damage rioters caused to the Capitol building - CNN - lots of pictures

Lawmakers detail chaos at the Capitol Wednesday - CNNPolitics

The day after supporters of President Donald Trump attempted to thwart Congress' certification of President-elect Joe Biden's Electoral College win, US lawmakers are starting to process the violence and destruction that broke out.

House members and senators were forced to pause proceedings, leave the chambers, and shelter in place as rioters stormed the Capitol building Wednesday afternoon, with some destroying federal property and ransacking offices, including those of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and the Senate parliamentarian.

The breach of the US Capitol delayed Congress' counting of states' electoral votes for nearly six hours. Later Wednesday night, lawmakers returned to finish the job, refusing to cower, and certified Biden's electoral victory.

 

[lpetrich]

Rep. Annie Custer:

"We were locked in by the Capitol Hill Police. We had a shelter in place order, and then eventually we had to evacuate. They told us to use the gas masks that are under the seats, and we had to scramble across the entire length of the balcony — really frightening. And everyone had to get out," Custer told CNN's Alisyn Camerota.

She added that as she was leaving the chamber, she looked back and saw police barricading the door.

Reps. Jason Crow and Susan Wild:

Among the 100 or so people trapped in the House gallery.

Crow said they were in the process of evacuating from the House chamber when they were stopped, and for 15 to 20 minutes, they were surrounded by the rioters with "no way out."

"I haven't felt that way in over 15 years since I was a (Army) Ranger in Iraq and Afghanistan, where I thought there was a possibility I would have to fight my way out," Crow said on CNN.

So he went into "Ranger mode" and prepared for the mob, locking and closing the doors, and moving the other members away from them.

"What was going through my head was frankly terror. Unlike Jason, I don't have combat experience. I'm very grateful to have been in the foxhole with Jason. It's the closest I have ever come to something like that," Wild told CNN's John Berman. "It was a scene of total confusion and chaos, at least for somebody who had never been in that kind of experience."

Rep. Grace Meng:

Democratic Rep. Grace Meng of New York was so scared for her life, she texted her family farewell, telling them that she loves them. She told CNN that she sheltered-in-place in a room near the House chambers when she heard the crowd approaching.

"The room that I was in, I started hearing a lot of stomping and chanting right outside. And I happened to have the TV on, and I realized that they were literally right outside my door. And so I was really frightened. I did not feel that someone could come and get me in time had they been able to break through. So I barricaded, I moved a lot of furniture that I was physically able to and tried to barricade the door," Meng said on "New Day."

Meng said five to six hours later, Capitol Police came and escorted her from the room, and she joined the rest of her colleagues as they reconvened to count the vote.

Rep. Nancy Mace:

On "New Day," newly sworn-in Republican Rep. Nancy Mace of South Carolina condemned the violence and called it "un-American."

Mace told CNN's John Berman that Trump's "entire legacy was wiped out yesterday." She urged the Republican Party to "start over" and "rebuild our party."