Kapaernick

[dismal]

In one year, we won't remember which player did what other than Kapaernick. We will remember yet another shower of right-wing pant pissing and the President joining in on the need for new pants.

At this point, I'd love to see an Imam, maybe in Iran? Anyway, an Imam issue a fatwa declaring that any muslims who kneel or support kneelers are heretics. Watch my coworkers flip their shit about foreigners who don't understand the essential freedoms that ALL AMERICANS enjoy! Also, I'd enjoy the whiplash as they about-face....

Again, since it seems most people missed this in 4th grade social studies, the fundamental freedom you enjoy is the government won't punish you for speaking. This fundamental First Amendment of which we speak says 'Congress shall make no law..." You do not have a fundamental right that protects you from being fired by your employer and/or being condemned to the fiery pits of hell by your god for speaking.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Again, since it seems most people missed this in 4th grade social studies, the fundamental freedom you enjoy is the government won't punish you for speaking. This fundamental First Amendment of which we speak says 'Congress shall make no law..." You do not have a fundamental right that protects you from being fired by your employer and/or being condemned to the fiery pits of hell by your god for speaking.

WAY to miss the entire point of the post, dismal.
IF the guys currently hoping these players were not only fired, but banished to North Korea, such as 90% of my office, were suddenly to find that they agreed with a cleric of Islam, they'd reverse so fast they'd leave skid marks in the air. Instantly, the players' lack of a right to protest would BECOME, in their mind, a cherished right and the foundation of the free world.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

At this point, I'd love to see an Imam, maybe in Iran? Anyway, an Imam issue a fatwa declaring that any muslims who kneel or support kneelers are heretics. Watch my coworkers flip their shit about foreigners who don't understand the essential freedoms that ALL AMERICANS enjoy! Also, I'd enjoy the whiplash as they about-face....

Again, since it seems most people missed this in 4th grade social studies, the fundamental freedom you enjoy is the government won't punish you for speaking. This fundamental First Amendment of which we speak says 'Congress shall make no law..." You do not have a fundamental right that protects you from being fired by your employer and/or being condemned to the fiery pits of hell by your god for speaking.

So people shouldn't be griping about free speech at berkeley in the other thread?

 

[dismal]

Again, since it seems most people missed this in 4th grade social studies, the fundamental freedom you enjoy is the government won't punish you for speaking. This fundamental First Amendment of which we speak says 'Congress shall make no law..." You do not have a fundamental right that protects you from being fired by your employer and/or being condemned to the fiery pits of hell by your god for speaking.

So people shouldn't be griping about free speech at berkeley in the other thread?

I don't know. Maybe that thread has something to do with free speech rights.

 

[whichphilosophy]

So people shouldn't be griping about free speech at berkeley in the other thread?

I don't know. Maybe that thread has something to do with free speech rights.

People of all views come to watch a match. Players promoting an agenda will be offensive those those who disagree or feel this should be done in their own time.

The public should be given the 3 things they paid for and expect from the teams they paid to watch during the event which is as follows:

1. Play the ball.
2. Play the ball.
3. Play the ball.

 

[sharon45]

Again, since it seems most people missed this in 4th grade social studies, the fundamental freedom you enjoy is the government won't punish you for speaking. This fundamental First Amendment of which we speak says 'Congress shall make no law..." You do not have a fundamental right that protects you from being fired by your employer and/or being condemned to the fiery pits of hell by your god for speaking.

WAY to miss the entire point of the post, dismal.
IF the guys currently hoping these players were not only fired, but banished to North Korea, such as 90% of my office, were suddenly to find that they agreed with a cleric of Islam, they'd reverse so fast they'd leave skid marks in the air. Instantly, the players' lack of a right to protest would BECOME, in their mind, a cherished right and the foundation of the free world.

Just presumedly antidotal.

 

[sharon45]

I don't know. Maybe that thread has something to do with free speech rights.

People of all views come to watch a match. Players promoting an agenda will be offensive those those who disagree or feel this should be done in their own time.

The public should be given the 3 things they paid for and expect from the teams they paid to watch during the event which is as follows:

1. Play the ball.
2. Play the ball.
3. Play the ball.

4. Watch people get hurt.

 

[repoman]

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

If I were his father, I'd be proud that he was being peaceful and respectful. Of course, he might also be putting himself in danger by being such a non-conformist, so that would have me worried about the authoritarian backlash.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Fucking asshole engaging in free expression at a memorial for someone who died in order to allow people to engage in free expression. Why the hell isn't he conforming to the dictates demanded of him by those in authority?

 

[whichphilosophy]

If I were his father, I'd be proud that he was being peaceful and respectful. Of course, he might also be putting himself in danger by being such a non-conformist, so that would have me worried about the authoritarian backlash.

If you look at the trial transcript of:
Ex-St. Louis cop found not guilty of murder in on-duty shooting of black man in 2011

then the cop charged, was found to have acted correctly in the face of a perceived threat, also backed up by forensics.

Also the demographics of poor areas resulting in high crime rates of black citizens reflects that there is no excessive killing taking place. Plus riots and demos are instigated before any due process is conducted.

The person doing his thing was acting disrespectful.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Fucking asshole engaging in free expression at a memorial for someone who died in order to allow people to engage in free expression. Why the hell isn't he conforming to the dictates demanded of him by those in authority?

So someone else waves a Swastika or waives an ISIS banner, that would be free expression. Or disrespecting due process where a person is innocent until found guilty is constructive??

In a free society there is also responsibility.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

If I were his father, I'd be proud that he was being peaceful and respectful. Of course, he might also be putting himself in danger by being such a non-conformist, so that would have me worried about the authoritarian backlash.

If you look at the trial transcript of:
Ex-St. Louis cop found not guilty of murder in on-duty shooting of black man in 2011

then the cop charged, was found to have acted correctly in the face of a perceived threat, also backed up by forensics.

Also the demographics of poor areas resulting in high crime rates of black citizens reflects that there is no excessive killing taking place. Plus riots and demos are instigated before any due process is conducted.

The person doing his thing was acting disrespectful.

There actually is a problem. It's that people are being killed unnecessarily. Protocols are too lax in what cops can do lethally.

"Also the demographics of poor areas resulting in high crime rates of black citizens..."

It doesn't matter whether black people are affected disproportionally because poverty is the root cause or not. People's lives have value and often (again) lethality is used when it is not necessary.

 

[blastula]

If I were his father, I'd be proud that he was being peaceful and respectful. Of course, he might also be putting himself in danger by being such a non-conformist, so that would have me worried about the authoritarian backlash.

I would be proud he learned how to tie his shoe.

 

[whichphilosophy]

If you look at the trial transcript of:
Ex-St. Louis cop found not guilty of murder in on-duty shooting of black man in 2011

then the cop charged, was found to have acted correctly in the face of a perceived threat, also backed up by forensics.

Also the demographics of poor areas resulting in high crime rates of black citizens reflects that there is no excessive killing taking place. Plus riots and demos are instigated before any due process is conducted.

The person doing his thing was acting disrespectful.

There actually is a problem. It's that people are being killed unnecessarily. Protocols are too lax in what cops can do lethally.

"Also the demographics of poor areas resulting in high crime rates of black citizens..."

It doesn't matter whether black people are affected disproportionaly because poverty is the root cause or not. People's lives have value and often (again) lethality is used when it is not necessary.

Lives are important but if more blacks are involved in crimes and face the police then more by percentage would be killed or arrested. It's just a matter of figures. However I quoted a recent case where the cop was cleared by due process including forensics. I'm sure cases exist where needless force was used.

 

[whichphilosophy]

People of all views come to watch a match. Players promoting an agenda will be offensive those those who disagree or feel this should be done in their own time.

The public should be given the 3 things they paid for and expect from the teams they paid to watch during the event which is as follows:

1. Play the ball.
2. Play the ball.
3. Play the ball.

4. Watch people get hurt.

Getting hurt is a risk of all contact sports.

However, there is also a number 4 priority I forgot to mention.

4. Play the ball.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Fucking asshole engaging in free expression at a memorial for someone who died in order to allow people to engage in free expression. Why the hell isn't he conforming to the dictates demanded of him by those in authority?

So someone else waves a Swastika or waives an ISIS banner, that would be free expression. Or disrespecting due process where a person is innocent until found guilty is constructive??

In a free society there is also responsibility.

Wut?

How would that relate to this guy kneeling?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

So someone else waves a Swastika or waives an ISIS banner, that would be free expression. Or disrespecting due process where a person is innocent until found guilty is constructive??

In a free society there is also responsibility.

Wut?

How would that relate to this guy kneeling?

Remember that guy? He was totally responsible for a government crackdown. Can't have non-conforming citizens protesting their government in non-government-approved ways...

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

So the team did not go out onto the field for “The Star-Spangled Banner.” Several coaches (including Tomlin) did go out to represent the organization. Alejandro Villanueva — starting left tackle, West Point graduate, decorated Army ranger — broke consensus slightly to appear at the mouth of the tunnel with his hand over his heart, but several players have already said they understood Villanueva’s unique circumstances.

Pittsburgh is a patriotic town. There was a lot of anger about the Steelers not showing up. But I believe that everyone on the Steelers did the right thing. They were dealt a bad hand and played it as best they could. Or, more accurately, they tried not to play.

And the dealer here was President Trump. A week ago, a handful of NFL players protested in one form or another. On Sunday, three full teams did not go out for the anthem, almost all players and coaches locked arms, and more than 200 in the NFL knelt, sat or otherwise demonstrated their displeasure.

And, to be specific, their displeasure was largely with President Trump and what he had said about them, their teammates and their rights. Forced again to defend the indefensible, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Monday said the president’s Huntsville stand was about “honoring the men and women who fought to defend” the flag.

As a 39-year military veteran, I think I know something about the flag, the anthem, patriotism, and I think I know why we fight. It’s not to allow the president to divide us by wrapping himself in the national banner. I never imagined myself saying this before Friday, but if now forced to choose in this dispute, put me down with Kaepernick.

--General Michael Hayden

http://thehill.com/opinion/white-ho...-trump-versus-nfl-standing-up-for-free-speech

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

So the team did not go out onto the field for “The Star-Spangled Banner.” Several coaches (including Tomlin) did go out to represent the organization. Alejandro Villanueva — starting left tackle, West Point graduate, decorated Army ranger — broke consensus slightly to appear at the mouth of the tunnel with his hand over his heart, but several players have already said they understood Villanueva’s unique circumstances.

Pittsburgh is a patriotic town. There was a lot of anger about the Steelers not showing up. But I believe that everyone on the Steelers did the right thing. They were dealt a bad hand and played it as best they could. Or, more accurately, they tried not to play.

And the dealer here was President Trump. A week ago, a handful of NFL players protested in one form or another. On Sunday, three full teams did not go out for the anthem, almost all players and coaches locked arms, and more than 200 in the NFL knelt, sat or otherwise demonstrated their displeasure.

And, to be specific, their displeasure was largely with President Trump and what he had said about them, their teammates and their rights. Forced again to defend the indefensible, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Monday said the president’s Huntsville stand was about “honoring the men and women who fought to defend” the flag.

As a 39-year military veteran, I think I know something about the flag, the anthem, patriotism, and I think I know why we fight. It’s not to allow the president to divide us by wrapping himself in the national banner. I never imagined myself saying this before Friday, but if now forced to choose in this dispute, put me down with Kaepernick.

--General Michael Hayden

http://thehill.com/opinion/white-ho...-trump-versus-nfl-standing-up-for-free-speech

Four star general, former director of both the NSA and the CIA.