Legal definition of woman is based on biological sex, UK supreme court rules

[TSwizzle]

"lol ur dumb what u talkin about i don read words hurr hurr hurr"

Gish gallop.

 

[Emily Lake]

It’s curious.

Do you not give the tiniest shit about females having a fair sporting category?

I certainly do. Most of the people who are railing against transgenders in general don't. {snip}

So who are these people you speak of and how do they rail against transgenders in general? What is it these people are railing against if not men competing in women's sports?

Their existence and the passive aggressive insistence that transgenderism is a "choice".

Currently there are roughly as many unicorns in professional women's sports as there are transgenders.

I don't understand this retort, what are you saying here?

You and the far-right appear obsessed with a problem that in near non-existent (of which you even concede in your post as you aren't aware of any transgenders in professional womens sports). Riding up to the situation on your white horses to save women from the scourge of a non-existing epidemic.

We know that men are competing in women's sports under the guise of being "transgender", Lia Thomas for example.

Lia Thomas graduated four years ago. That is the only name you've got. Lia Thomas helped provide very good scientific data indicating that medicinal options appeared inadequate to make the post puberty transgender person compete fairly among women. This scientific data is helping to shape an unbiased foundation for setting fair policy.

HECHEATED

A record of MALES who have robbed FEMALE athletes of success and opportunities in sport and the organizations who have helped them do so.

hecheated.org

 

[Emily Lake]

Their existence?! What does that actually entail? What does “railing against their existence” look like?

Denying that they exist.

People who have an internal construct of themselves based on stereotypes regarding the opposite sex certainly exist. Nobody else is obligated to agree with their internal construct of themselves, however.

Denying them legal recognition.

If they'd like to be legally recognized as believing they have the internal essense of the opposite sex, I have no objection to that.
What's being denied is that they actually ARE the opposite sex. Because they aren't.

Denying their right to work, marriage, child-raising.

Who is doing this in developed nations, with any sort of efficacy?

Trying to make it illegal to teach about their existence in schools.

Nah. More like making it illegal to intentionally confuse kindergartners about how many sexes actually exist, and falsely teach vulnerable kids that if they don't conform to a regressive stereotype they should look into permanently medicalizing themselves.

Trying to erase trans people from histories and theologies.

Alternatively... trying to put a stop to the complete revision of history. Like claiming that Queen Victoria was trans, or Joan of Arc, or claiming that a black transwoman started the stonewall riots. And any number of other cases of retroactively transing historical figures to support a modern narrative.

Denying trans people access to religious rites.

Again, who is doing this?

Trying to boycott media that depict them.

Alternatively... just being sick and fucking tired of having 2% of the population forced down our throats constantly.

Trying to make it illegal for trans people to recieve adequate medical care.

Um... I think we have an enormously different idea of what "adequate medical care" means. To me, it definitely does NOT mean destroying the normal pubertal process of a child and amputating healthy body parts in order to fail to treat a mental health issue.

Trying to make it illegal for a parent to support their own trans child.

Alternatively, making it illegal for the medical community to use children as experimental subjects in a weird eugenics program that interrupts the normal healthy pubertal process and subjects confused children to permanent medicalization that doesn't actually improve their mental health.

Trying to make it illegal for a doctor or therapist to treat their trans patients.

That's false. Doctors and therapists are more than welcome to treat their ADULT patients.

Trying to make it illegal for kids to play baseball.

False. Kids are perfectly allowed to play baseball... on teams that match their actual sex.

Trying to make it either illegal or unsafe for trans people to use a public restroom.

Also false. Trans people are perfectly allowed to use facilities with others of their sex, as they've always been able to do.

Trying to make it illegal to apply for a passport under your true name and gender.

Passports must have your current LEGAL name, not whatever nickname you prefer to go by - they're legal documents. And they require the person's sex, not a representation of whatever mental construct they have about their inner gendery feelings.

Using government money to support anti-trans organizations, institutions, churches, and schools.

What are you talking about? I assume you were fine with using government money to push a pro-trans, anti-woman agenda though?

Disproportionately imprisoning trans people.

Why do you think this is true?

Disproportionately deporting trans people.

Why do you think this is true?

Using government agencies to harass trans activist organizations. Redefining trans activist organizations as terrorist organizations.

How would you define "Bash Back"?

In all cases, trying to make any and all 14th amendment rights contingent on accepting the twisted gender ideology of conservatives. In Trump's world (as in Orban's world, in Putin's world, in Hitler's world), you can have the rights of a citizen only insofar as you go back so far into the closet that you accept harm to yourself rather than exist publically as yourself.

We simply refuse. Morally, you deserve no rights that you attempt to deny others. But politically? No one in any position of power is trying to take your rights. You attack, you attack, you attack, then you pretend to be "persecuted" when no one has fired a shot except to publically call out your lies. It's grotesque.

Oh for fuck's sake. Women have rights too. Like the right to give or withhold consent - a right that trans activists intentionally and persistently seek to destroy. The right to have female athletics leagues that do not include males. The right to tell a male to get the fuck out of the female side of the korean spa. The right to NOT have swinging dicks in spaces where we're naked. The right to be free from the cruel and unusal pubishment of having fully intact male violent offenders placed in shared prison cells with female inmates.

 

[Elixir]

Um... I think we have an enormously different idea of what "adequate medical care" means. To me, it definitely does NOT mean destroying the normal pubertal process of a child and amputating healthy body parts in order to fail to treat a mental health issue.

Viscerally, I tend to agree. But as is my habit, I have to extend the applied principle to all possible cases of voluntary self mutilation, chemical alteration etc, even the most minor.
I don’t like nose rings, eyebrow or tongue piercings, or even most tattoos, and they all carry certain risks. I would encourage kids to abstain from those behaviors, and would not agree to pay for them as a parent, at least while the kid is under age. Same for “gender therapy” though I know people who have trans kids … I would have to experience whatever pressures came to bear upon them to pass judgment, but as I write this - no way José. I think everyone has attributes that mostly associate with both genders, but there are so many advantages to conformity. Of course I am assuming the same comfort level with traditional gender roles that I enjoy. So I don’t pass judgment on parents or kids that make what I see as bad choices. It’s THEIR choice and I don’t appreciate the abridgement of others’ rights to decide stuff.

 

[Emily Lake]

Um... I think we have an enormously different idea of what "adequate medical care" means. To me, it definitely does NOT mean destroying the normal pubertal process of a child and amputating healthy body parts in order to fail to treat a mental health issue.

Viscerally, I tend to agree. But as is my habit, I have to extend the applied principle to all possible cases of voluntary self mutilation, chemical alteration etc, even the most minor.
I don’t like nose rings, eyebrow or tongue piercings, or even most tattoos, and they all carry certain risks. I would encourage kids to abstain from those behaviors, and would not agree to pay for them as a parent, at least while the kid is under age. Same for “gender therapy” though I know people who have trans kids … I would have to experience whatever pressures came to bear upon them to pass judgment, but as I write this - no way José. I think everyone has attributes that mostly associate with both genders, but there are so many advantages to conformity. Of course I am assuming the same comfort level with traditional gender roles that I enjoy. So I don’t pass judgment on parents or kids that make what I see as bad choices. It’s THEIR choice and I don’t appreciate the abridgement of others’ rights to decide stuff.

There are some key distinctions here though. Nose rings, piercings, even tattoos generally don't interfere with that person's ability to live a healthy fully functional life. They're all superficial - the worst impact they have is that some people are going to judge them for looking like a pincushion, or they'll have a rough time getting an office job when they've got "fuck the police" tattooed across their forehead. Some people will regret those childhood decisions, but no actual injury results from it.

On the other hand... chemically interrupting puberty has long-term health impacts. Cross-sex hormones have long-term health impacts. When you give a pubertal child "blockers", it interrupts an evolutionary process, and it frequently results in sterility and the loss of sexual function. As in, young boys given blockers will end up stuck with undersized non-functional testes that don't drop away from the body, and a child-sized penis. They don't develop the ability to experience sexual pleasure or orgasm. The blockers interrupt the accretion of bone density that is necessary to lead a health adult life, creating osteoporosis in youth - and once the growth plates close, that density will never accrete to appropriate levels.

Binders deform ribs and prevent proper breathing. Mastectomies remove the ability to produce milk and potentially breast feed. Testosterone destroys ova, and thins the vaginal walls. Estrogen increases the risk of stroke in males.

There are a LOT of very serious health risks involved in medically treating children with gender dysphoria.

The worst part of it is that these interventions don't improve long-term mental health. They don't reduce the rate of suicidal ideation, self-harm, depression, or anxiety disorders.

And for the most part, neither parents not children have a full understanding of what they're "choosing" to do. It's not truly informed consent when the 15 year old has no realistic idea whether they might want kids when they're grown up, or if they might someday want to know what an orgasm feels like, or if they might want to live a life where they're not entirely dependent on drugs.

 

[Politesse]

Oh for fuck's sake. Women have rights too. Like the right to give or withhold consent - a right that trans activists intentionally and persistently seek to destroy.

Your views do not reflect the perspective of most women that I know, but even if they did, it still would not give you the right to deny medical treatment to anyone, let alone someone else's child. Or the various other abuses of others that you demand as "rights". In 1800, most women opposed what we would now call women's rights, as defined by either "Left" or "Right". But that didn't make marital rape or forced household labor any more moral, or healthy for society in the long run.

 

[scombrid]

It’s curious.

Do you not give the tiniest shit about females having a fair sporting category?

I certainly do. Most of the people who are railing against transgenders in general don't. {snip}

So who are these people you speak of and how do they rail against transgenders in general? What is it these people are railing against if not men competing in women's sports?

Their existence and the passive aggressive insistence that transgenderism is a "choice".

Currently there are roughly as many unicorns in professional women's sports as there are transgenders.

I don't understand this retort, what are you saying here?

You and the far-right appear obsessed with a problem that in near non-existent (of which you even concede in your post as you aren't aware of any transgenders in professional womens sports). Riding up to the situation on your white horses to save women from the scourge of a non-existing epidemic.

We know that men are competing in women's sports under the guise of being "transgender", Lia Thomas for example.

Lia Thomas graduated four years ago. That is the only name you've got. Lia Thomas helped provide very good scientific data indicating that medicinal options appeared inadequate to make the post puberty transgender person compete fairly among women. This scientific data is helping to shape an unbiased foundation for setting fair policy.

HECHEATED

A record of MALES who have robbed FEMALE athletes of success and opportunities in sport and the organizations who have helped them do so.

hecheated.org

You might as well link to Stormfront or Infowars.

 

[scombrid]

Interesting where these people want the government to intervene in health choices.

 

[scombrid]

So you don’t want a dick swinging in the women’s room. That’s reasonable. But why support the “bathroom bills” that try to force someone that may not even have a twig and berries to use a men’s bathroom? It looks to me like the party of Rapey McForehead and Trump is more interested in using bigotry to scare up votes than it is in protecting women. It is the party of Andrew Tate after all. I think a reasonable place that protects women without endangering trans people can be found without rampant fear mongering and flat out fabricating statistics to make trans people seem like some kind of scourge that is running amok. Kind of over the hysterics.

 

[Emily Lake]

Oh for fuck's sake. Women have rights too. Like the right to give or withhold consent - a right that trans activists intentionally and persistently seek to destroy.

Your views do not reflect the perspective of most women that I know, but even if they did, it still would not give you the right to deny medical treatment to anyone, let alone someone else's child.

If you want to support the sterilization of gay and autistic kids, that's your choice. I also oppose lobotomies for depression and hysterectomies for anxiety so...

Or the various other abuses of others that you demand as "rights".

What abuses do you think I demand as a right? Do you really think it's a horrible abuse to deny males the right to see naked women?

 

[Emily Lake]

So you don’t want a dick swinging in the women’s room. That’s reasonable. But why support the “bathroom bills” that try to force someone that may not even have a twig and berries to use a men’s bathroom?

Do you think that a male human being who's had their testicles removed is a female? And that because they don't have their bits, they should then be given legal backing to look at naked women and girls without our consent?

How do you propose to determine which man-shaped male has a dick and which man-shaped male doesn't?

Why on earth do you think that women should be obligated to let males of any sort into spaces where we're naked or vulnerable? Why do you think that the desires of males to be affirmed in their appropriation of womanness is more important than the consent, dignity, and safety of women?

 

[Elixir]

Nose rings, piercings, even tattoos generally don't interfere with that person's ability to live a healthy fully functional life. They're all superficial - the worst impact they have is that some people are going to judge them for looking like a pincushion, or they'll have a rough time getting an office job when they've got "fuck the police" tattooed across their forehead. Some people will regret those childhood decisions, but no actual injury results from it.

It's all of a piece afaic. Some pieces are bigger than others, but changing the topology* of one's own anatomy is one's own business. or that of a parent if one is a minor.
Tattoos may be the least directly physically harmful of all the previously mentioned forms of "abuse" but it can still result in harm, even long term harm and very rarely, death. So can ear piercing, or even a real bad job of toenail clipping.
My blanket recommendation is go natural, don't do it, etc., but I'm not about to force my preferences upon others until I end up paying their doctor bills.

* I think the actual topological decription of normal male and female humans is actually the same, but you know what I'm saying.

 

[scombrid]

Any sort? What are you on about?

 

[scombrid]

So you don’t want a dick swinging in the women’s room. That’s reasonable. But why support the “bathroom bills” that try to force someone that may not even have a twig and berries to use a men’s bathroom?

Do you think that a male human being who's had their testicles removed is a female? And that because they don't have their bits, they should then be given legal backing to look at naked women and girls without our consent?

How do you propose to determine which man-shaped male has a dick and which man-shaped male doesn't?

Why on earth do you think that women should be obligated to let males of any sort into spaces where we're naked or vulnerable? Why do you think that the desires of males to be affirmed in their appropriation of womanness is more important than the consent, dignity, and safety of women?

Why do you act like all trans are just bullies running around using trans as cover to abuse women?

 

[Elixir]

It's not truly informed consent when the 15 year old has no realistic idea

IMO NONE of us has realistic ideas. A 15 year old is (rightfully IMO) subject to the authority of parents, or should be.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

"lol ur dumb what u talkin about i don read words hurr hurr hurr"

Gish gallop.

Was that meant sarcastically or you don't know what words you are saying.

 

[Playball40]

Their existence?! What does that actually entail? What does “railing against their existence” look like?

Denying that they exist.

Nobody denies that people exist, this is just silly.

Denying them legal recognition.

How does that work?

Denying their right to work, marriage, child-raising.

What are you on about?

Trying to make it illegal to teach about their existence in schools.

This is not “denying they exist”. This is between parents, PTA and schools about what is appropriate for pupils.

Trying to erase trans people from histories and theologies.

What are you on about now?

Denying trans people access to religious rites.

Lol.

Trying to boycott media that depict them.

Eh? I don’t watch Ru Paul’s Drag Race not because I’m boycotting transgenders but because it is of no interest to me. But it’s interesting how a show about transgenders that has been running for years and yet you claim there is a concerted effort to deny transgenders exist.

Trying to make it illegal {snip hysterical ranting}

Morally, you deserve no rights that you attempt to deny others. But politically? No one in any position of power is trying to take your rights. You attack, you attack, you attack, then you pretend to be "persecuted" when no one has fired a shot except to publically call out your lies. It's grotesque.

lol, such drama.

Uh Rue Paul is not transgendered. Sheesh. Drag queens and kings are not necessarily transgendered.

 

[Playball40]

Um... I think we have an enormously different idea of what "adequate medical care" means. To me, it definitely does NOT mean destroying the normal pubertal process of a child and amputating healthy body parts in order to fail to treat a mental health issue.

Viscerally, I tend to agree. But as is my habit, I have to extend the applied principle to all possible cases of voluntary self mutilation, chemical alteration etc, even the most minor.
I don’t like nose rings, eyebrow or tongue piercings, or even most tattoos, and they all carry certain risks. I would encourage kids to abstain from those behaviors, and would not agree to pay for them as a parent, at least while the kid is under age. Same for “gender therapy” though I know people who have trans kids … I would have to experience whatever pressures came to bear upon them to pass judgment, but as I write this - no way José. I think everyone has attributes that mostly associate with both genders, but there are so many advantages to conformity. Of course I am assuming the same comfort level with traditional gender roles that I enjoy. So I don’t pass judgment on parents or kids that make what I see as bad choices. It’s THEIR choice and I don’t appreciate the abridgement of others’ rights to decide stuff.

There are some key distinctions here though. Nose rings, piercings, even tattoos generally don't interfere with that person's ability to live a healthy fully functional life. They're all superficial - the worst impact they have is that some people are going to judge them for looking like a pincushion, or they'll have a rough time getting an office job when they've got "fuck the police" tattooed across their forehead. Some people will regret those childhood decisions, but no actual injury results from it.

On the other hand... chemically interrupting puberty has long-term health impacts. Cross-sex hormones have long-term health impacts. When you give a pubertal child "blockers", it interrupts an evolutionary process, and it frequently results in sterility and the loss of sexual function. As in, young boys given blockers will end up stuck with undersized non-functional testes that don't drop away from the body, and a child-sized penis. They don't develop the ability to experience sexual pleasure or orgasm. The blockers interrupt the accretion of bone density that is necessary to lead a health adult life, creating osteoporosis in youth - and once the growth plates close, that density will never accrete to appropriate levels.

Binders deform ribs and prevent proper breathing. Mastectomies remove the ability to produce milk and potentially breast feed. Testosterone destroys ova, and thins the vaginal walls. Estrogen increases the risk of stroke in males.

There are a LOT of very serious health risks involved in medically treating children with gender dysphoria.

The worst part of it is that these interventions don't improve long-term mental health. They don't reduce the rate of suicidal ideation, self-harm, depression, or anxiety disorders.

And for the most part, neither parents not children have a full understanding of what they're "choosing" to do. It's not truly informed consent when the 15 year old has no realistic idea whether they might want kids when they're grown up, or if they might someday want to know what an orgasm feels like, or if they might want to live a life where they're not entirely dependent on drugs.

How would you know they don't improve long term mental health?? They actually DO REDUCE THE RATE OF SUICIDAL IDEATION et al. And you are speaking out your asshole claiming "parents don't have a full understanding of what they are 'choosing to do'" You sound like an anti-vaxxer nutjob. My TG son began hormones at 16 - do not tell me that we didn't understand. We had the support of six, count them SIX healthcare professionals, ranging from the pediatrician to the endocrinologist. Don't PRETEND to understand ONE BIT what it is like in reality for a PARENT of a transgendered child. AND DON'T YOU DARE try and tell me that the GOVT and politicians know what's BEST for my child. Affirmative care SAVES LIVES, including the life of my child.

 

[scombrid]

Yeah. Both sides of the mouth talk out of they do. Trans people are just a bunch of dick swinging drag queens terrorizing women in lockers and bathrooms. But trans are also children with dysphoria that really need conversion therapy to save them from the liberals that want to whack off their junk and give them hormones even if the means they’ll never have children or even an orgasm.

 

[scombrid]

Why do they constantly conflate men in drag with transgendered people? Is it intentional or are they incapable of thinking beyond that?