Let's talk about the problems in Australia for a change!

[Tigers!]

Historically, migration is a win-win - the migrants get a better life, and their new country gets a stronger economy, because migrants bring their education and skills with them, and need not be educated at public expense while producing zippo for two decades like native-born citizens do.

Controlled migration is always a win-win.

The losers are the countries from which the migrants come - they lose their most innovative and daring people, and get to keep the lazy and cowardly ones.

I am always uneasy with countries like Australia, UK etc. importing trained/skilled people from 3rd world countries (to use a term that is imprecise). We are taking from those countries the people they will need to help them in the future. We would be better off rolling our own (training our own people)

Me too. We should be taking in refugees, and leaving trained and skilled people to build their own country. Of course, sometimes those categories overlap.

And investing in our own youngsters, instead of hijacking the training investment of countries that can't afford to lose it.

I have friends, a doctor and an engineer, who are not allowed to practice in Australia. Too busy trying to make a living to take on the bridging requirements. They're doing OK financially, but there is a lot of knowledge going to waste.

I have met so many people from Commonwealth countires who have doctorates, PHDs etc. who can not use their skills, talents in that field in Australia.
I used to think that a degree from a Commonwealth member university - University of the Commonwealth Caribbean (Jamaica), University of Delhi, to name just two - would be accepted in Australia. Apparently not.
I have never understood why we have never developed some sort of academic, technical testing regime to ensure that such person's skills can be used in Australia.
Such a waste of talent, real and potential.

 

[steve_bank]

Australia's Immigration policy is nothing short of fucking obscene, and is the reason I stopped voting Labor years ago. Although I'd say the biggest threat to Australia's democracy is that it has no meaningful opposition party in Federal politics. The Coalition is barely functional and that's in spite of the overwhelming support they receive from AM radio, Murdoch and Channel 9. When Parliament thinks it's bullet proof that's when all the really bad ideas bubble to the surface.

Also, just refer to us as cunts instead of aussies. Trust me, it's a time saver.

Playing devils advocate.

Sol like our progressives anyone who shows up in a rowboat on Australian shores should be given food, education, shelter, a job, and medical care? Are there any limits and bounds?

 

[Tigers!]

Most of us older adults have grandparents or great grandparents who were immigrants from countries all over the world. My husband's grandmother was from Syria and her husband was from Lebanon. His other grandparents were from Lebanon and even my mother in law spoke fluent Arabic. I personally know a dear woman locally who is from Lebanon. My small city is full of immigrants from many countries. My great grandparents were from Ireland, Poland, and Germany. I have no doubt that my father's grandfather was what was commonly referred to as poor white trash, people who the British forced to leave in hopes of getting rid of all the poor, low class citizens. I read about this in a book a few years ago, but I don't make stereotypes about all British people based on the worst in history. Diversity is what makes our lives more interesting.

A couple of years ago my church (85 regular attenders) did a survey about where we originated. Our pastor is a Pom and wanted to know.
All of us were suprised to learn that the 85 people came from 36 countries. From Asia, Africa, Europe, Pacific, Central-South American, ME. Strangely (thankfully?) no yanks or Canadians.
If such a survey had been done in 1980 there would be been far less countries represented, mainly Europe, UK. Though we had some Vietnamese (as noted earlier), PNG and of course Kiwis

 

[Tigers!]

Australia's Immigration policy is nothing short of fucking obscene, and is the reason I stopped voting Labor years ago. Although I'd say the biggest threat to Australia's democracy is that it has no meaningful opposition party in Federal politics. The Coalition is barely functional and that's in spite of the overwhelming support they receive from AM radio, Murdoch and Channel 9. When Parliament thinks it's bullet proof that's when all the really bad ideas bubble to the surface.

Also, just refer to us as cunts instead of aussies. Trust me, it's a time saver.

Playing devils advocate.

Sol like our progressives anyone who shows up in a rowboat on Australian shores should be given food, education, shelter, a job, and medical care? Are there any limits and bounds?

They will be given the opportunity to establish their bona fides i.e. are you truly a refugee?
Temporary shelter, food. No job. Basic medical care.

If not, off with their heads.

 

[Patooka]

Australia's Immigration policy is nothing short of fucking obscene, and is the reason I stopped voting Labor years ago. Although I'd say the biggest threat to Australia's democracy is that it has no meaningful opposition party in Federal politics. The Coalition is barely functional and that's in spite of the overwhelming support they receive from AM radio, Murdoch and Channel 9. When Parliament thinks it's bullet proof that's when all the really bad ideas bubble to the surface.

Also, just refer to us as cunts instead of aussies. Trust me, it's a time saver.

Playing devils advocate.

Sol like our progressives anyone who shows up in a rowboat on Australian shores should be given food, education, shelter, a job, and medical care? Are there any limits and bounds?

Growing up our next door neighbour was a refugee from Lithuania who fled the Soviet Union. When he came to Australia he received pretty much everything you described. He became an electrical engineer, his wife became a teacher, one of his son who was born here became a software programmer and the other a doctor in something. The federal government got their initial investment and then some back from treating two 19 year old asylum seekers with some fucking dignity.

So short version - yes to your question. It's nowhere near the drain on government resources xenophobes think it is.

 

[steve_bank]

Australia's Immigration policy is nothing short of fucking obscene, and is the reason I stopped voting Labor years ago. Although I'd say the biggest threat to Australia's democracy is that it has no meaningful opposition party in Federal politics. The Coalition is barely functional and that's in spite of the overwhelming support they receive from AM radio, Murdoch and Channel 9. When Parliament thinks it's bullet proof that's when all the really bad ideas bubble to the surface.

Also, just refer to us as cunts instead of aussies. Trust me, it's a time saver.

Playing devils advocate.

Sol like our progressives anyone who shows up in a rowboat on Australian shores should be given food, education, shelter, a job, and medical care? Are there any limits and bounds?

They will be given the opportunity to establish their bona fides i.e. are you truly a refugee?
Temporary shelter, food. No job. Basic medical care.

If not, off with their heads.

It has not worked here.

Tens of millions who have disappeared into the country.

What qualifiesa refugee? From reporting people crossing the border have a general set of stat6ements prepared. The they dispensary when given a court date.


Here in the area an illiberal group was staying in tents in a church parking lot. They disrupted a city council meeting demanding to be put up in a hotel.

I am aware the Australian issues with illegals showing up in boats. Seems like they are tyranny to mange the problem.

Also Greece.

The tiny Greek island of Gavdos, located south of Crete, has been overwhelmed by a significant influx of migrants arriving from Libya. With a permanent population of only about 50-70 people, the island has received over 1,000 migrants since early 2024, stretching local resources and creating a "state of emergency".

The Greek island of
Lesbos was a primary entry point into Europe for hundreds of thousands of migrants and refugees in 2015 and 2016, a situation that became known as the European migration crisis. In recent years, arrivals have significantly decreased due to stricter Greek and EU migration policies, though the situation remains complex and a subject of ongoing debate.

There arve trade issues with China and issues with Chinese political corruption and influence peddling. Chuina wants Australia and others to trade in Chinese currency instead oUSD..
There was controversy when Australian pulled out of a nuclear sub deal with France in favor of USA.

AI summary
Australian Aborigines have legal equality and voting rights, as established by the 1967 referendum and subsequent anti-discrimination laws
. While they possess specific, recognized land rights and cultural protections, they often still face significant systemic disadvantages and lack dedicated, constitutionally enshrined political representation at the national level.

Any comkents?

BTW, my main source of information on Australian culture is from Crocodile Dundee and Mad Max.

 

[Tigers!]

Australia's Immigration policy is nothing short of fucking obscene, and is the reason I stopped voting Labor years ago. Although I'd say the biggest threat to Australia's democracy is that it has no meaningful opposition party in Federal politics. The Coalition is barely functional and that's in spite of the overwhelming support they receive from AM radio, Murdoch and Channel 9. When Parliament thinks it's bullet proof that's when all the really bad ideas bubble to the surface.

Also, just refer to us as cunts instead of aussies. Trust me, it's a time saver.

Playing devils advocate.

Sol like our progressives anyone who shows up in a rowboat on Australian shores should be given food, education, shelter, a job, and medical care? Are there any limits and bounds?

They will be given the opportunity to establish their bona fides i.e. are you truly a refugee?
Temporary shelter, food. No job. Basic medical care.

If not, off with their heads.

It has not worked here.

Tens of millions who have disappeared into the country.

What qualifiesa refugee? From reporting people crossing the border have a general set of stat6ements prepared. The they dispensary when given a court date.

Demonstrated persecution due to membership of certain groups or showing incipetent persecution of such groups.
Not liking your next door neighbours or your feelings got hurt is not enough. We have a points based system.

Here in the area an illiberal group was staying in tents in a church parking lot. They disrupted a city council meeting demanding to be put up in a hotel.

I am aware the Australian issues with illegals showing up in boats. Seems like they are tyranny to mange the problem.

We had a large problem early this century but with a combination of carrot/stick it is more manageable.

BTW, my main source of information on Australian culture is from Crocodile Dundee and Mad Max.

There are worse sources for Australian culture.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

With respect to the OP, it is almost a general rule that any thread involving another nation will eventually become about how dumb and unworldly Americans are. And it's not restricted to IIDB.

In fairness, we rather invite that sort of attention with our actions in the world.

My grandfather served in WW2 in Australia, PNG and the Pacific Islands. He met many Americans.
One day when I was about 8 or 9 I was watching the news on the telly with him.
He suddenly blurted out, with vemon, "Never trust a Yank with money".
"Yes Poppy".
I can't recall exactly what triggered that outburst and I never dared asked him, nanna or mum why he said that.
But 55 years later it is as if he just said it.

I would think he was referencing this sentiment:
"Overpaid, oversexed, and over here", which was a popular saying regarding US servicemen in Australia and UK during WWII (from 1944).

 

[pood]

With respect to the OP, it is almost a general rule that any thread involving another nation will eventually become about how dumb and unworldly Americans are. And it's not restricted to IIDB.

In fairness, we rather invite that sort of attention with our actions in the world.

My grandfather served in WW2 in Australia, PNG and the Pacific Islands. He met many Americans.
One day when I was about 8 or 9 I was watching the news on the telly with him.
He suddenly blurted out, with vemon, "Never trust a Yank with money".
"Yes Poppy".
I can't recall exactly what triggered that outburst and I never dared asked him, nanna or mum why he said that.
But 55 years later it is as if he just said it.

I would think he was referencing this sentiment:
"Overpaid, oversexed, and over here", which was a popular saying regarding US servicemen in Australia and UK during WWII (from 1944).

“Overpaid, oversexed and over here,” along with the Soviets, saved the world from Hitler and Tojo. So there is that.

 

[DBT]

Australia as an arid land cannot support perpetual population growth.

There is no land, arid or otherwise, that can support perpetual population growth. No planet either. As regional or global limits are approached, life gets less and less pleasant for individuals. There’s nothing unique about Australia that way.

...and fortunately, there's no prospect of any such perpetual population growth, nor is it required for perpetual economic growth.

But that's enough of this DBT hobbyhorse derail - if he wants to talk about population growth, he can resurrect any of a number of earlier pointless threads on the subject.

It wasn't a derail. The topic of the thread is about problems in Australia. That is the title of the thread. And as it happens, excessive immigration is seen by many as one of the current problems in Australia. Is that supposed to be ignored?

 

[DBT]

Historically, migration is a win-win - the migrants get a better life, and their new country gets a stronger economy, because migrants bring their education and skills with them, and need not be educated at public expense while producing zippo for two decades like native-born citizens do.

Controlled migration is always a win-win.

The losers are the countries from which the migrants come - they lose their most innovative and daring people, and get to keep the lazy and cowardly ones.

I am always uneasy with countries like Australia, UK etc. importing trained/skilled people from 3rd world countries (to use a term that is imprecise). We are taking from those countries the people they will need to help them in the future. We would be better off rolling our own (training our own people)

Australia as an arid land cannot support perpetual population growth.

There is no land, arid or otherwise, that can support perpetual population growth. No planet either. As regional or global limits are approached, life gets less and less pleasant for individuals. There’s nothing unique about Australia that way.

...and fortunately, there's no prospect of any such perpetual population growth, nor is it required for perpetual economic growth.

But that's enough of this DBT hobbyhorse derail - if he wants to talk about population growth, he can resurrect any of a number of earlier pointless threads on the subject.

Yet our government is doing it's very best to maintain growth, practically panicking at the mere thought of the economy stalling or 'stagnating.'

I don't see a point in the foreseeable future where we adopt a steady state economy or put a cap on Australia's population.

You are (again) conflating population growth with economic growth; And (again) this hobbyhorse error of yours belongs in another thread.

It's not an error. Economic growth entails resource use, which entails consumption. More houses, more food, clothing, goods and services - growth - with population size effecting labor supply, productivity, and demand....

 

[steve_bank]

Australia's Immigration policy is nothing short of fucking obscene, and is the reason I stopped voting Labor years ago. Although I'd say the biggest threat to Australia's democracy is that it has no meaningful opposition party in Federal politics. The Coalition is barely functional and that's in spite of the overwhelming support they receive from AM radio, Murdoch and Channel 9. When Parliament thinks it's bullet proof that's when all the really bad ideas bubble to the surface.

Also, just refer to us as cunts instead of aussies. Trust me, it's a time saver.

Playing devils advocate.

Sol like our progressives anyone who shows up in a rowboat on Australian shores should be given food, education, shelter, a job, and medical care? Are there any limits and bounds?

They will be given the opportunity to establish their bona fides i.e. are you truly a refugee?
Temporary shelter, food. No job. Basic medical care.

If not, off with their heads.

It has not worked here.

Tens of millions who have disappeared into the country.

What qualifiesa refugee? From reporting people crossing the border have a general set of stat6ements prepared. The they dispensary when given a court date.

Demonstrated persecution due to membership of certain groups or showing incipetent persecution of such groups.
Not liking your next door neighbours or your feelings got hurt is not enough. We have a points based system.

Here in the area an illiberal group was staying in tents in a church parking lot. They disrupted a city council meeting demanding to be put up in a hotel.

I am aware the Australian issues with illegals showing up in boats. Seems like they are tyranny to mange the problem.

We had a large problem early this century but with a combination of carrot/stick it is more manageable.

BTW, my main source of information on Australian culture is from Crocodile Dundee and Mad Max.

There are worse sources for Australian culture.

It is easy to make a feel good moral statement about illegal immigration. It is another matter entirety to actually have to deal with consequences of mass uncontrolled immigration.

The Pope from behind a secure walled sub city in Rome declares all countries should have open borders to immigrants. The obvious hypocrisy. No immigrants are going to put up tents in the Vatican grounds.

Countries have a right to control borders. Including Australia.

 

[pood]

Australia’s big problem is not immigration, illegal or legal. Its birth rate is plummeting and is poised to reach a record low. Australia NEEDS immigrants.

Australia’s biggest problem is this.

Which is causing me to rethink my sketchy plan to move to Sydney. The city’s future does not look good.

 

[Elixir]

It has not worked here.

It hasn’t been tried here.
Being hunted like an animal is not the same as being provided basic necessities.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

With respect to the OP, it is almost a general rule that any thread involving another nation will eventually become about how dumb and unworldly Americans are. And it's not restricted to IIDB.

In fairness, we rather invite that sort of attention with our actions in the world.

My grandfather served in WW2 in Australia, PNG and the Pacific Islands. He met many Americans.
One day when I was about 8 or 9 I was watching the news on the telly with him.
He suddenly blurted out, with vemon, "Never trust a Yank with money".
"Yes Poppy".
I can't recall exactly what triggered that outburst and I never dared asked him, nanna or mum why he said that.
But 55 years later it is as if he just said it.

I would think he was referencing this sentiment:
"Overpaid, oversexed, and over here", which was a popular saying regarding US servicemen in Australia and UK during WWII (from 1944).

“Overpaid, oversexed and over here,” along with the Soviets, saved the world from Hitler and Tojo. So there is that.

After the Commonwealth and other allies laid the foundations of victory.

 

[Elixir]

“Overpaid, oversexed and over here,” along with the Soviets, saved the world from Hitler and Tojo. So there is that.

After the Commonwealth and other allies laid the foundations of victory.

... and only because it looked like the US's ass was going to be in a sling. It took a lot to overcome the isolationist sentiment.

 

[bilby]

Australia as an arid land cannot support perpetual population growth.

There is no land, arid or otherwise, that can support perpetual population growth. No planet either. As regional or global limits are approached, life gets less and less pleasant for individuals. There’s nothing unique about Australia that way.

...and fortunately, there's no prospect of any such perpetual population growth, nor is it required for perpetual economic growth.

But that's enough of this DBT hobbyhorse derail - if he wants to talk about population growth, he can resurrect any of a number of earlier pointless threads on the subject.

It wasn't a derail. The topic of the thread is about problems in Australia. That is the title of the thread. And as it happens, excessive immigration is seen by many as one of the current problems in Australia. Is that supposed to be ignored?

Immigration and population growth are not the same topic, and you have freely admitted in this thread that your concern about that latter is not constrained to Austrslia, so yes, it is off topic; And yes, it is a hobbyhorse derail. Take it to one of the threads on that topic.

 

[bilby]

Historically, migration is a win-win - the migrants get a better life, and their new country gets a stronger economy, because migrants bring their education and skills with them, and need not be educated at public expense while producing zippo for two decades like native-born citizens do.

Controlled migration is always a win-win.

The losers are the countries from which the migrants come - they lose their most innovative and daring people, and get to keep the lazy and cowardly ones.

I am always uneasy with countries like Australia, UK etc. importing trained/skilled people from 3rd world countries (to use a term that is imprecise). We are taking from those countries the people they will need to help them in the future. We would be better off rolling our own (training our own people)

Australia as an arid land cannot support perpetual population growth.

There is no land, arid or otherwise, that can support perpetual population growth. No planet either. As regional or global limits are approached, life gets less and less pleasant for individuals. There’s nothing unique about Australia that way.

...and fortunately, there's no prospect of any such perpetual population growth, nor is it required for perpetual economic growth.

But that's enough of this DBT hobbyhorse derail - if he wants to talk about population growth, he can resurrect any of a number of earlier pointless threads on the subject.

Yet our government is doing it's very best to maintain growth, practically panicking at the mere thought of the economy stalling or 'stagnating.'

I don't see a point in the foreseeable future where we adopt a steady state economy or put a cap on Australia's population.

You are (again) conflating population growth with economic growth; And (again) this hobbyhorse error of yours belongs in another thread.

It's not an error. Economic growth entails resource use, which entails consumption. More houses, more food, clothing, goods and services - growth - with population size effecting labor supply, productivity, and demand....

It is an error. Economic growth is measured in dollars, which are unlimited, not in population numbers, which are limited. If economic growth and population growth went hand in hand, Africa would be the world's economic powerhouse. You are wrong, and you are derailing the thread.

 

[gmbteach]

Speaking of Australia.

After enduring a BRUTAL New York City winter, I have lately got the notion in my noggin to move to Sydney, Australia.

Why? I have never been there, but have studied it online, and I love the harbor and the opera house (opera fan) and I understand it has great beaches (I am a beach bum). Plus, the weather, unlike here, seems equable year-round. New York City is COLD six months of the year, and I am too old for cold.

I know there are several Australians posting here, so maybe they could advise me on what it would take to move to Sydney, what the cost of living is like, and whether an American would be welcome there, given that pretty much the whole world now hates America because of Trump.

Keep in mind that within 15 years or so, should I live so long, I will likely be a doddering and drooling old coot who yells at everyone and everything (actually, I kind of yell at everyone and everything already, though I am still physically spry and mentally acute).

I would avoid Sydney because it’s NSW and they suck! Brisbane is better!

Seriously, Brisbane is better. It’s a bit cheaper to live in, we have the beaches, the casinos, opera etc. We also have tropical rainforests within as couple of hours drive at Mt Tambourine (a great spot where a lot of people who work remotely live). There are also vineyards, at Mt Tambourine but also around 2 hours westward.

And our weather is serious better than Sydney. It’s mid-March and it’s still quite warm, but the beach is right there!

We have DreamWorld, MovieWorld, SeaWorld, Fleays, and, of course, Australia Zoo, all within a couple of hours drive!

 

[gmbteach]

I just wanna know one thing. Does turning your glass over in an Aussie pub mean you want to get into a fight?

Apologies if pub is not the correct word...

Was the glass full?

That would cause a fight for sure!