Londonistan, Eurabia

[Jokodo]

Derec, you just spent 10 pages wailing about what a fucking outrage it is that Subway should dare to serve halal food in stores in Muslim communities. Then...

No the outrage is that they would serve nothing but halal food in stores where there are some Muslims (15% in the case of Easton, Bristol) in the communities.

They also don't serve  durian anyplace close to where I live. And there's that bar I used to frequent which banned smoking. What right to they have to to restrict my choices? I want my durian and it's their holy duty to serve it, and not just cowardly cave in to those bastards who'd be offended! They say it would reduce their sales? They have no right to value their sales more highly than my happiness. There reason of existence isn't sales, it's me!!!

 

[Keith&Co.]

If they can't eat pork it's a simple matter of not ordering pork.

I think you have been informed more than once that this is not the case,

Well, yeah, but acknowledging that would mean he couldn't be nearly as outraged.

 

[Keith&Co.]

But if a British pub wanted to do so in order to cater to the Muslim customers they don't have, who the fuck are you to tell them they can't?

D's not saying they can't.
He's saying that the only possible motive they would have to do so MUST be something that freedom lovers would find an outrage against their love of freedoms.

 

[Jokodo]

We should not allow religious ritual killing in any way.

Nor should the majority bend over backwards as many are to the demands made by moslems or any other minority.

Evangelicals in the US enact legislation preventing everybody in the county from getting alcohol.
Muslims in the UK make it clear that they would prefer to get there food at places that don't serve pork, and one major retailer reacts by going off pork with a minority of their outlets.

And you folks choose to get outraged about the latter?

 

[Sabine Grant]

Halal also requires that animals be slaughtered in a manner inconsistent with animal protection laws.
I do not see why British businesses, British schools etc. should have to accommodate such superstition.

Once more and from the article you linked to:

There are thought to be around 12 abattoirs dedicated to unstunned slaughter in the UK, while hundreds practise stunned halal slaughter.
A Subway spokeswoman told MailOnline all halal meat served in the participating branches is from animals who were stunned prior to slaughter.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...and-Muslims-eat-Halal-meat.html#ixzz30ZJEp0xg

The Subway restaurants in question decided that it would be easier to go halal only, than to have to train their employees to keep the different meats entirely separate throughout the storage and preparation process.

So what's next? British pubs banning alcohol because the glasses they serve Muslim patrons can't be kept entirely separate from those alcohol is being served in?
Camel's nose, meet tent.

Are you equating different storing logistics for halal and pork products , using different counters to pre slice meat for sandwiches, using different utensils, having one or several employees totally dedicated to manually handle halal meat products (while they can never handle pork products such as ham or bacon) to cleaning a glass which previously contained an alcoholic beverage? You appear to not be informed at all as to why you never see a mix in any store or eating facility of halal and pork meat products.

 

[Warpoet]

It's really nice to see that everything has made the transition from FRDB to TF.

Including alarmist threads filled with chicken little bullshit and selective outrage over complete nonissues like this one.

the hell did I even bother transferring my account over

 

[KeepTalking]

It's really nice to see that everything has made the transition from FRDB to TF.

Including alarmist threads filled with chicken little bullshit and selective outrage over complete nonissues like this one.

the hell did I even bother transferring my account over

At least the Politics forum is at the very bottom of the board now. It actually takes an act of will to visit us down here, kind of like ~E~ on the old board.

 

[steve_bnk]

If I had a restaurant and the community had a big enoughpopulation of Muslims I would consider offering compliant meals if the demand was there.



Same if it were immigrants from the Caribbean or elsewhere. Business exists to serve the community. The old American Jim Crow environment excluded blacks from white restaurants.



I am not generally anti religion or anti Muslim. Everybody has theright of beliefs and free association.

You would stop serving pork because it may offend some crazies?

I would not take pork off the menu.

My apologies if I got your response arse about.

No problem.

After all this talk ham I went to the store and got a piece of Black Forest ham and had ham and cheese sandwiches yesterday.

 

[fromderinside]

Due to Islamist pressure, many Subway stores across UK and Ireland are banning porn products and are only carrying meat from animals slaughtered according to Islamic religious precepts (aka "halal").
Subway removes ham and bacon from nearly 200 stores and offers halal meat only after 'strong demand' from Muslims

I think this is bullshit. This is directly restricting choices for non-Muslims just so Muslims are not offended by having to sit next to someone with bacon on their sandwich. Giving them choices they like (although halal slaughtering is very problematic in itself) is one thing, restricting choices of others is quite another.

Want influence? Go to Subway with a wad of dollars and friends in hand. Complain that unless they sell ham and bacon, Kosher or no, you'll not eat there.

Just thought a repeat of the OP would be appropriate here.

 

[tupac chopra]

Is Derec a real person? Or a committee of people who get together to start threads so people can post funny comments and cheer me up?

 

[tupac chopra]

When in Rome! The idea that cultural backward group can migrate to a western nation then expect the natives to bend to their likes and dislikes. If my restaurant serves pork you don't have to order pork, but don't expect my regulars to stop eating pork because it offends your sensibilities which are purely religious anyway.

Why would this only apply to western nations?

 

[angelo]

Which, if one were paying attention, is not the case with the Subway Halal meats, as they are stunning the animals before slaughtering them. Apparently some versions of Halal allow this, which you would know if you were fucking paying attention to this thread, which you started.

I do not see why British businesses, British schools etc. should have to accommodate such superstition.

This thread is not about British schools, but British businesses are free to accommodate whatever superstitions they like.

The Subway restaurants in question decided that it would be easier to go halal only, than to have to train their employees to keep the different meats entirely separate throughout the storage and preparation process.

So what's next? British pubs banning alcohol because the glasses they serve Muslim patrons can't be kept entirely separate from those alcohol is being served in?

Well, since there is also an Islamic prohibition against drinking alcohol, I doubt that any devout Muslims frequent British pubs. But if a British pub wanted to do so in order to cater to the Muslim customers they don't have, who the fuck are you to tell them they can't?

From Wiki.
Halal foods are foods that Muslims are allowed to eat or drink under Islamic Shariʻah. The criteria specify both what foods are allowed, and how the food must be prepared. The foods addressed are mostly types of meat and animal tissue.

The most common example of non-halal (or haraam) food is pork. While pork is the only meat that cannot be eaten by Muslims at all (due to historically, culturally, and religiously perceived hygienic concerns), foods other than pork can also be haraam. The criteria for non-pork items include their source, the cause of the animal's death, and how it was processed.

The food must come from a supplier that uses halal practices. Specifically, the slaughter must be performed by a Muslim, who must precede the slaughter by invoking the name of Allah, most commonly by saying "Bismillah" ("In the name of God") and then three times "Allahu akbar" (God is the greatest). Then, the animal must be slaughtered with a sharp knife by cutting the throat, windpipe and the blood vessels in the neck (while the animal is conscious), causing the animal’s death without cutting the spinal cord. Lastly, the blood from the veins must be drained.

Muslims must also ensure that all foods (particularly processed foods), as well as non-food items like cosmetics and pharmaceuticals, are halal. Frequently, these products contain animal by-products or other ingredients that are not permissible for Muslims to eat or use on their bodies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halal

 

[angelo]

Which, if one were paying attention, is not the case with the Subway Halal meats, as they are stunning the animals before slaughtering them. Apparently some versions of Halal allow this, which you would know if you were fucking paying attention to this thread, which you started.

I do not see why British businesses, British schools etc. should have to accommodate such superstition.

This thread is not about British schools, but British businesses are free to accommodate whatever superstitions they like.

The Subway restaurants in question decided that it would be easier to go halal only, than to have to train their employees to keep the different meats entirely separate throughout the storage and preparation process.

So what's next? British pubs banning alcohol because the glasses they serve Muslim patrons can't be kept entirely separate from those alcohol is being served in?

Well, since there is also an Islamic prohibition against drinking alcohol, I doubt that any devout Muslims frequent British pubs. But if a British pub wanted to do so in order to cater to the Muslim customers they don't have, who the fuck are you to tell them they can't?

When in Rome! The idea that cultural backward group can migrate to a western nation then expect the natives to bend to their likes and dislikes. If my restaurant serves pork you don't have to order pork, but don't expect my regulars to stop eating pork because it offends your sensibilities which are purely religious anyway.

Why would this only apply to western nations?

It applies to all nations. I cannot expect to order pork sausages in a restaurant in Saudi Arabia. Nor would I expect them to bend the rules for my sake.

 

[Keith&Co.]

From Wiki.
... (while the animal is conscious), ...

Okay, I realize Derec never fully read the article he's linked to, where it mentions that all the halal meat at Subway comes from animals that were unconscious at the time.
But have you read that article and the various posters in the thread referring to British animal protection laws, i dunno, the article?

I have seen a UK Halal Butcher website discussing the fact that they think the 'must-be-conscious' arguments are wrong, and why they're wrong. (Part includes a mention about how the ultra-conservatives only partially quote the relevant fatwas, making the fatwa seem to say something different. I was heartened to see that quote mining is not only a creationist problem.) They would prefer to slaughter the animal while conscious, but they'd much rather comply with the law and make a profit.

If the ritual slaughter complies with animal protection laws, are you still against it just because it's muslim?

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t in Saudi Arabia. Nor would I expect them to bend the rules for my sake.

What rules are they bending?

 

[Jokodo]

Okay, I realize Derec never fully read the article he's linked to, where it mentions that all the halal meat at Subway comes from animals that were unconscious at the time.
But have you read that article and the various posters in the thread referring to British animal protection laws, i dunno, the article?

I have seen a UK Halal Butcher website discussing the fact that they think the 'must-be-conscious' arguments are wrong, and why they're wrong. (Part includes a mention about how the ultra-conservatives only partially quote the relevant fatwas, making the fatwa seem to say something different. I was heartened to see that quote mining is not only a creationist problem.) They would prefer to slaughter the animal while conscious, but they'd much rather comply with the law and make a profit.

If the ritual slaughter complies with animal protection laws, are you still against it just because it's muslim?

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t in Saudi Arabia. Nor would I expect them to bend the rules for my sake.

What rules are they bending?

Don't you know Britain has a law that forces all eateries to offer one pork dish for every non-pork dish on the menue? That's why there are no fish and chip stalls that only serve fish and chips, and opening a vegetarian restaurant is punishable with 10 years of imprisonment. We can't make allow exceptions on religious grounds, can we?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Don't you know Britain has a law that forces all eateries to offer one pork dish for every non-pork dish on the menue?

Ah.
I had wondered why the shops around the base in Scotland always offered to pour salt, vinegar and bacon-bits on your food.
I understood the salt. When the salt dissolves, you've got enough vinegar on your food.
Never grasped the 'pork menu item' trick of the Baco-Bits.

Learn something every day, huh.

 

[Derec]

When in Rome! The idea that cultural backward group can migrate to a western nation then expect the natives to bend to their likes and dislikes. If my restaurant serves pork you don't have to order pork, but don't expect my regulars to stop eating pork because it offends your sensibilities which are purely religious anyway.

Why would this only apply to western nations?

It doesn't. If I move to a country where they regularly eat insects for example why should they stop serving insects in their eateries just because I might find it distasteful?

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Never grasped the 'pork menu item' trick of the Baco-Bits.

Don't you know that everything is better with bacon? Maybe that's why so many devout Muslims are so angry all the time. [a joke, PC police, just a joke]

 

[Keith&Co.]

Never grasped the 'pork menu item' trick of the Baco-Bits.

Don't you know that everything is better than bacon? Maybe that's why so many devout Muslims are so angry all the time. [a joke, PC police, just a joke]

I don't get the joke...
Do you mean that NOTHING is better than bacon, so Muslims are angry? That would make more sense. NO matter what they can eat, it'll never be as good as bacon...

Like the joke about the Rabbi and the Cardinal, and the Rabbi admits he's had bacon, once, and the Cardinal admits that he's had sex, once, and the Rabbi winks and says, "Beats the shit out of bacon, doesn't it?" to imply that it's better to observe Kosher and get laid than to have no dietary restrictions.

But...if everything's better than bacon, then Muslims should be among the happiest because they never stoop so low.

I think you were paying more attention to your disclaimer than the joke you were trying to make, Derec.

 

[Derec]

I don't get the joke..

Made a mistake. Sorry.

Like the joke about the Rabbi and the Cardinal, and the Rabbi admits he's had bacon, once, and the Cardinal admits that he's had sex, once, and the Rabbi winks and says, "Beats the shit out of bacon, doesn't it?" to imply that it's better to observe Kosher and get laid than to have no dietary restrictions.

There is an German drinking song called "Papst und Sultan" (the Pope and the Sultan). At first the singer envies the Pope for his luxury and good wine he drinks, but then pities him for sleeping in his bed alone. Similarly, he first envies the sultan for "living in a brothel" but then pities him for not being allowed to drink any wine. He concludes by returning to his life where he can be "half pope and half sultan".
Similar setup, but I like the conclusion better. Why deny yourself because of arbitrary religious restrictions?

I think you were paying more attention to your disclaimer than the joke you were trying to make, Derec.

Unfortunately a necessity around here.

 

[Jokodo]

When in Rome! The idea that cultural backward group can migrate to a western nation then expect the natives to bend to their likes and dislikes. If my restaurant serves pork you don't have to order pork, but don't expect my regulars to stop eating pork because it offends your sensibilities which are purely religious anyway.

Why would this only apply to western nations?

It doesn't. If I move to a country where they regularly eat insects for example why should they stop serving insects in their eateries just because I might find it distasteful?<snip>

Wrong question. Nobody is saying they should - there is nothing moral about their decision. But if a significant portion of the local consumer base finds it distasteful, there's a market for a eateries that don't serve it. I'm sure there's a broad variety of eateries that don't serve insects in Bangkok or Singapure, partly because of the demand of Western tourists and expats.