-
Features
Louisiana mandates 10 Commandments In Schools
- Thread starter steve_bank
- Start date
Shadowy Man
Contributor
You are assuming facts not in evidence; i.e., that Christians read the Bible.
Shadowy Man
Contributor
He many Christians could even name the books of the Bible let alone know what is in one of them called “Numbers”??
Much more likely they can name all of Santa’s reindeers.
Much more likely they can name all of Santa’s reindeers.
Ford
Contributor
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2010
- Messages
- 7,370
- Location
- Freedomland
- Basic Beliefs
- Just don't knock on my door on a Saturday Morning
They know 2 Corinthians and Olive, the Other Reindeer.
Cheerful Charlie
Contributor
Parts of the Bible the Christians ignore.
Mark 10:21
21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go
thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure
in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
Luke 12:32-33
32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure
in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
Luke 18:22
22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing:
sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure
in heaven: and come, follow me.
Matthew 19:19-20
19 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth
up: what lack I yet?
20 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast,
and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Jesus commands this. The Bible proves it. That settles it.
Mark 10:21
21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go
thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure
in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
Luke 12:32-33
32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure
in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
Luke 18:22
22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing:
sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure
in heaven: and come, follow me.
Matthew 19:19-20
19 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth
up: what lack I yet?
20 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast,
and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Jesus commands this. The Bible proves it. That settles it.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
If people read their bibles there would be less believers and less bible worship.
It's funny you mentioned this because I just asked my wife about Numbers 5:11-31. She said, "God didn't perform an abortion; the wife wasn't pregnant. The curse for infidelity was to make her unable to have a child." I replied, "Well, now you're talking about birth control, and you don't agree with that either."
She hung up.
Shadowy Man
Contributor
Yo sure she has the right interpretation?
It's funny you mentioned this because I just asked my wife about Numbers 5:11-31. She said, "God didn't perform an abortion; the wife wasn't pregnant. The curse for infidelity was to make her unable to have a child." I replied, "Well, now you're talking about birth control, and you don't agree with that either."
She hung up.
(emphasis mine)
Sounds to me like if she is pregnant with another man’s child she will miscarry it (abortion).
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2002
- Messages
- 39,958
- Location
- Frozen in Michigan
- Gender
- Old Fart
- Basic Beliefs
- Don't be a dick.
I had to memorize the books in order in grade school. I promptly forgot them afterwards.
southernhybrid
Contributor
That worked for me and we were forced to read the Bible, even the most disgusting parts of the OT. When my father was in a bad mood, he would say, "Girls, go get your Bibles", Then he would read us one of the horrible stories in the OT while we sat fearfully around the dining room table. One of my sisters is still a Christian, but I think her beliefs are a bit more moderate than the conservative version we were taught to believe as children. Plus, I personally think she only believes for the sense of community it gives her. She doesn't even attend the Sunday service, but she does attend the senior groups, and little Bible studies and things like that. My nutty, mean sister who died last year adopted some sort of paganish beliefs, but she was sure she would meet all her dead dogs in heaven. Crazy belief, but less harmful than thinking people who don't believe like you are going to burn in hell. Heaven would be hell without our pets, so I get why she liked the idea of reuniting with her dogs.
I grew up when Bible reading and prayer were mandatory in public schools, even in NJ. Even my Bible thumping mom seemed relieved when that was ended as she was a conservative Baptist and in the good old days, Baptists proudly supported the SCS.
lpetrich
Contributor
I'll add modern-English translations. The writers of the Bible didn't speak King James English, despite what some people seem to believe. I'll add the New International Version, the New English Translation, and the 1995 edition of the New American Standard Bible, both at biblegateway.com
21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
21 As Jesus looked at him, he felt love for him and said, “You lack one thing. Go, sell whatever you have and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
21 Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
32 “Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.
32 “Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father is well pleased to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide yourselves purses that do not wear out—a treasure in heaven that never decreases, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys.
32 Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom. 33 “Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys.
22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 When Jesus heard this, He said to him, “One thing you still lack; sell all that you possess and distribute it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
20 The young man said to him, “I have wholeheartedly obeyed all these laws. What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure[aa] in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
lpetrich
Contributor
Dao De Jing [Tao Te Ching], by Lao Zi [Lao Tzu] in Side-by-Side Translation: Chapter 1 - the Chinese original, Mandarin pronunciation, word-for-word English.
道可道，非常道。
dào kě dào, fēi cháng dào.
way can way, not lasting way.
名可名，非常名。
míng kě míng, fēi cháng míng.
name can name, not lasting name.
Translating the Tao Te Ching is a challenge.
道可道，非常道。
dào kě dào, fēi cháng dào.
way can way, not lasting way.
名可名，非常名。
míng kě míng, fēi cháng míng.
name can name, not lasting name.
Translating the Tao Te Ching is a challenge.
lpetrich
Contributor
One especially contentious part of the familiar 10 Commandments is Exodus 20:13: is it "murder" or "kill"?
Strong's Hebrew: 7523. רָצַח (ratsach) -- to murder, slay
H7523 - rāṣaḥ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)
"Murder" seems to be the primary sense of the world, deliberate and illegitimate killing of another human being.
So it's most literally "you (sg.) shall not murder" and most translations over the last century indeed use "murder". The King James Version, however, uses "kill" instead of "murder", a much more general word. So it ought to have had "thou shalt not murder".
"Thou"? That's the original English second person singular pronoun, but it dropped out of the language after the publication of the KJV. One can also find it in the works of contemporaries, like William Shakespeare. All the more recent translations use "you".
Strong's Hebrew: 7523. רָצַח (ratsach) -- to murder, slay
H7523 - rāṣaḥ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)
"Murder" seems to be the primary sense of the world, deliberate and illegitimate killing of another human being.
So it's most literally "you (sg.) shall not murder" and most translations over the last century indeed use "murder". The King James Version, however, uses "kill" instead of "murder", a much more general word. So it ought to have had "thou shalt not murder".
"Thou"? That's the original English second person singular pronoun, but it dropped out of the language after the publication of the KJV. One can also find it in the works of contemporaries, like William Shakespeare. All the more recent translations use "you".
Politesse
Lux Aeterna
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2018
- Messages
- 12,685
- Location
- Chochenyo Territory, US
- Gender
- nonbinary
- Basic Beliefs
- Jedi Wayseeker
The Tao which can be translated is not the eternal Tao, anyway.
Politesse
Lux Aeterna
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2018
- Messages
- 12,685
- Location
- Chochenyo Territory, US
- Gender
- nonbinary
- Basic Beliefs
- Jedi Wayseeker
They do, although this erases the implications of some important biblical passages. It is always harder to achieve translation into a more linguistically removed tongue. Romance language translations of the Bible are sometimes more accurate for this reason, being at least slightly more inflected than English. Armenian for the New Testament, or Arabic for the HS? Even better. Modern English simply lacks many of the linguistic features of the heavily inflected Greek and Hebrew languages, forcing the translator to throw in dozens of "helper words" and historically agreed upon glosses over even rather simple passages, rendering a connotatively correct word-for-word translation flatly impossible. Even if we posssed an uncontroversial autograph for each of the Biblical works, and even if we all agreed which should be canonized, in trying to remove it into English (or Dutch, or Swahili) without some loss of information, Biblical literalists would still pursue a delusion.
lpetrich
Contributor
Cross-linguistically, distinguishing singular and plural second-person pronouns is very common, so English is very exceptional. Some English speakers have tried to fix this loss by inventing new plural ones, like "you all", "you people" and "yous", but such forms have had only limited success.
As to inflections, languages often have very different ones.
Finnish and Hungarian have lots of noun cases, but the cases' endings are usually very regular, with plural forms being the plural ending followed by the case ending.
The house is new. The houses are new. I live in the house. I live in the houses.
Finnish:
Talo on uusi. Talot ovat uusia. Asun talossa. Asun taloissa.
Hungarian:
A ház új. A házak újak. A házban lakom. A házakban lakom.
Finnish plural -t becomes -i- before most case endings.
Slavic languages distinguish imperfective and perfective aspects of verbs, and one has to learn them individually. Imperfective ones are for incomplete, continuing, or repeated actions, and perfective ones for complete ones. BTW, English verb tenses are more properly tense-aspect combinations.
Japanese has no personal verb endings -- and Japanese speakers don't use pronouns very much. Japanese has only two verb tenses, present-future and past, but it also has negative and polite forms of verbs, and also negative polite ones.
Etc.
As to inflections, languages often have very different ones.
Finnish and Hungarian have lots of noun cases, but the cases' endings are usually very regular, with plural forms being the plural ending followed by the case ending.
The house is new. The houses are new. I live in the house. I live in the houses.
Finnish:
Talo on uusi. Talot ovat uusia. Asun talossa. Asun taloissa.
Hungarian:
A ház új. A házak újak. A házban lakom. A házakban lakom.
Finnish plural -t becomes -i- before most case endings.
Slavic languages distinguish imperfective and perfective aspects of verbs, and one has to learn them individually. Imperfective ones are for incomplete, continuing, or repeated actions, and perfective ones for complete ones. BTW, English verb tenses are more properly tense-aspect combinations.
Japanese has no personal verb endings -- and Japanese speakers don't use pronouns very much. Japanese has only two verb tenses, present-future and past, but it also has negative and polite forms of verbs, and also negative polite ones.
Etc.
Cheerful Charlie
Contributor
A thought on the Ten Commandments in every school class room. This could start a guerilla counter posting war. Young atheists, gays, feminists, agnostics, Satanists et all, making their own poster at home on the computers and printing them out. Smuggling them into schools and taping them up. Mark 10, Luke 18, Matthew 19. Sell all you have and give to the poor. Matthew 6:5-6. Praying in public is verboten. Small pamphlets to leave at desks or on lockers, especially for Christian proselytizing pests. Or Christian Nationalist teachers. This intrusion of religion in schools might have counter actions not so far anticipated. Student reading a pamphlet: "You mean Jesus tells us we have to sell all we have and give to the poor?! For real!" In a sense this is not new. Our founding fathers had this sort of debate long ago. Which is why America was founded as a secular nation.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2002
- Messages
- 39,958
- Location
- Frozen in Michigan
- Gender
- Old Fart
- Basic Beliefs
- Don't be a dick.
^^^ I like this idea.
Politesse
Lux Aeterna
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2018
- Messages
- 12,685
- Location
- Chochenyo Territory, US
- Gender
- nonbinary
- Basic Beliefs
- Jedi Wayseeker
Or just a blown up version of commandment number two, thou shalt not make for yourself a graven image, with "graven image" underlined and a big red arrow pointing to the adjoining printed (graven) image of the Ten Commandments,
There's a reason the original Ten Commandments, rather than being posted in a public forum, were kept carefully contained in an Ark and concealed carefully from public view in the Holy of Holies, the innermost chamber of the Temple where only trained priests ever went, and even they with great caution and rituals of purification and sacrifice. To the ancient Hebrews, the words of G-d and the Name of G-d were inherently powerful and somewhat dangerous, not the stuff of cheap rhetorical ploys.
Did you know we have never found any artistic representation of the Decalogue rules? We know from other written texts that they were important to Hebrew society, but they themselves weren't lightly written down and certainly would not have been displayed anywhere, especially not where Gentiles could read them. These were the terms of G-d's covenant with the Hebrews, the source of their king and city's power and might, not something a Phillistine or Assyrian had any right to know the secret of.
Of course, you cannot expect Christians to take their faith that seriously. Christians are interested in the Bible "the way a drunk is interested in a lightpost -- as support, rather than illumination" (to creatively paraphrase Andrew Lang).
There's a reason the original Ten Commandments, rather than being posted in a public forum, were kept carefully contained in an Ark and concealed carefully from public view in the Holy of Holies, the innermost chamber of the Temple where only trained priests ever went, and even they with great caution and rituals of purification and sacrifice. To the ancient Hebrews, the words of G-d and the Name of G-d were inherently powerful and somewhat dangerous, not the stuff of cheap rhetorical ploys.
Did you know we have never found any artistic representation of the Decalogue rules? We know from other written texts that they were important to Hebrew society, but they themselves weren't lightly written down and certainly would not have been displayed anywhere, especially not where Gentiles could read them. These were the terms of G-d's covenant with the Hebrews, the source of their king and city's power and might, not something a Phillistine or Assyrian had any right to know the secret of.
Of course, you cannot expect Christians to take their faith that seriously. Christians are interested in the Bible "the way a drunk is interested in a lightpost -- as support, rather than illumination" (to creatively paraphrase Andrew Lang).
Last edited: