Mar-a-Largo raided by FBI?

[Jarhyn]

It's really uncomfortable seeing this insofar as it's not uncouth or improper to have some kind of relationship which touches on parent/child dynamics, assuming you are both adults walking into that knowing what you want and are bringing in, but it seems so unnecessarily exposed to bring that in front of the entire nation.

It's unfair to make others participate to that extent, as a public figure.

What are you talking about?

Pence said, years ago, "I would not have dinner alone with a woman who isn't my wife".

Toni is making up stuff, and you're running with it.
Tom

You don't know that Pence calls his wife "mother"?

I know a lot of folks who do this, no judgements, but none of them are as uncouth as to do it in public.

 

[TomC]

I know a lot of folks who do this, no judgements, but none of them are as uncouth as to do it in public.

Dayum you're judgemental.

"Uncouth"? Because he doesn't do things your way?
In public?

Mrs Pence is a mother. A very good one, apparently. She raised good kids while her husband was a busy politician.

[Insult deleted]

Tom

ETA ~We are getting a bit off topic.~

 

[Toni]

It's really uncomfortable seeing this insofar as it's not uncouth or improper to have some kind of relationship which touches on parent/child dynamics, assuming you are both adults walking into that knowing what you want and are bringing in, but it seems so unnecessarily exposed to bring that in front of the entire nation.

It's unfair to make others participate to that extent, as a public figure.

What are you talking about?

Pence said, years ago, "I would not have dinner alone with a woman who isn't my wife".

Toni is making up stuff, and you're running with it.
Tom

I’m not making anything g up but I did presume everyone knew that Pence referred to his wife as Mother. My apologies for any confusion.

If you are referring to then Gov. Pence’s response to the HIV outbreak in Austin/Scott County, just google Pence’s response to HIV outbreak. For those that are unaware, And stin IN has a population of under 4000 and is located in a county which has fewer than 25000 residents.

Here’s an article that is t behind a paywall:

5 Years After Indiana's Historic HIV Outbreak, Many Rural Places Remain At Risk

Fewer than a third of the 220 counties deemed by the federal government as vulnerable to similar outbreaks have active syringe exchange programs which can stop the spread of the infection.

www.npr.org

There’s more extensive reporting on the IndyStar but for me, that’s behind a paywall. I read it when it came out but have t been able to access it recently.

 

[TomC]

I’m not making anything g up but I did presume everyone knew that Pence referred to his wife as Mother. My apologies for any confusion.

I was referring specifically to @Jarhyn 's post. I quoted it.

I wasn't talking about the Trump Administration's response to C19 or anything else.

Referring to the mother of your children as Mother is a bit quaint. But frankly, I'd like to see good mothers get more appreciation.

Feminist misogynistic people seem to think that's a problem.
Tom

 

[Toni]

I’m not making anything g up but I did presume everyone knew that Pence referred to his wife as Mother. My apologies for any confusion.

I was referring specifically to @Jarhyn 's post. I quoted it.

I wasn't talking about the Trump Administration's response to C19 or anything else.

Referring to the mother of your children as Mother is a bit quaint. But frankly, I'd like to see good mothers get more appreciation.

Feminist misogynistic people seem to think that's a problem.
Tom

You said I was making stuff up. I wasn’t.

Within families it is common to refer to parents of people present as Mom or Dad, or Grandma and Grandpa (with grandchildren present). It’s way less common for people to refer to their spouses in general public as Mother or Father much less in a professional setting.

There’s a line between honoring the mother or father of your children and relegating them to existing only as the parent of your children.

Recognizing that women exist as other than mothers and mother figures is not misogyny. I think even Amy Coney Barrett would agree.

 

[TomC]

You said I was making stuff up. I wasn’t.

You did manage to confuse the Minnesotan Wizard with

Sure, he would never have dinner with a woman unless Mother were present but bfd.

I knew what you were referring to, it's quaint but common around here.

Frankly, I'd forgotten about it. I don't really pay much attention to Pence anymore. Jarhyn turned it into family dysfunction.

Recognizing that women exist as other than mothers and mother figures is not misogyny.

Failing to recognize that mothering is a big, important, lifework is misogynistic.
Tom

 

[Toni]

You said I was making stuff up. I wasn’t.

You did manage to confuse the Minnesotan Wizard with

Sure, he would never have dinner with a woman unless Mother were present but bfd.

I knew what you were referring to, it's quaint but common around here.

Frankly, I'd forgotten about it. I don't really pay much attention to Pence anymore. Jarhyn turned it into family dysfunction.

Recognizing that women exist as other than mothers and mother figures is not misogyny.

Failing to recognize that mothering is a big, important, lifework is misogynistic.
Tom

Relegating women to only motherhood and forbidding, hindering or discounting any other aspect of her life and valuing her only for being a mother is deeply misogynistic.

 

[Ford]

You said I was making stuff up. I wasn’t.

You did manage to confuse the Minnesotan Wizard with

Sure, he would never have dinner with a woman unless Mother were present but bfd.

I knew what you were referring to, it's quaint but common around here.

Frankly, I'd forgotten about it. I don't really pay much attention to Pence anymore. Jarhyn turned it into family dysfunction.

Recognizing that women exist as other than mothers and mother figures is not misogyny.

Failing to recognize that mothering is a big, important, lifework is misogynistic.
Tom

Relegating women to only motherhood and forbidding, hindering or discounting any other aspect of her life and valuing her only for being a mother is deeply misogynistic.

At the risk of putting this all back on track...

Pence seems to be the classic "a woman's place is in the home making babies" Republican. I'm sure he did a big "thank you Jesus" when Roe v Wade was overturned and didn't even for a nanosecond think about the impacts it would have on victims of rape or incest, women with ectopic pregnancies, women of color (that anti-choice laws affect disproportionately), teens whom the "abstinence only" education model failed, and women who are simply not financially capable of traveling across possibly several states to get healthcare.

As for his actions on January 6th? He did the right thing, but only after being reminded by a former VP what his role was...which means that he had to ask. So he was at least considering overturning the election for Trump, and was finally pushed into doing his job once he was backed into a corner. He is no hero. Subsequently, he has - if quietly - stood by Trump and all the "accomplishments" of their administration, including packing the Supreme Court with a few extra religious fanatics/misogynists. I'm guessing that he's "outraged" that Trump's home was searched, and probably agrees with all the right wing talking points being thrown out there about his traitorous former boss. I think it was terrible that the mob chanted "hang Mike Pence," but if they simply yelled "fuck Mike Pence," I would tend to agree with them on that narrow point.

 

[TomC]

Relegating women to only motherhood and forbidding, hindering or discounting any other aspect of her life and valuing her only for being a mother is deeply misogynistic

I agree.
But so is discounting child rearing as a career.

Which is rather more feminist.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Relegating women to only motherhood and forbidding, hindering or discounting any other aspect of her life and valuing her only for being a mother is deeply misogynistic

I agree.
But so is discounting child rearing as a career.

Which is rather more feminist.
Tom

Is it?

Have you considered what a burden is created upon children when their existence seems to be the sole purpose of their mother’s life? Even parents who make raising their children their sole career have other aspects of their lives, other wishes, hopes and dreams. Other talents, relationships, needs.

It’s exceedingly rare to refer to people only by their profession or by their relationship to one’s self, with exceptions being designating parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles and those relationships by marriage ( in some families). Parents rarely call call their children by Son or Daughter rather than by their name. Spouses rarely refer to one another by the term Husband or Wife, although they do when speaking of these people to a third party.

BTW, Karen Pence is or was a school teacher and a painter.

 

[TomC]

Pence seems to be the classic "a woman's place is in the home making babies" Republican.

Do you realize how much of American divisiveness is based on people starting assertions with "It seems.." like you just did?

AOC seems to be a classic Communist "useful idiot". You might not think so, but some people do. As long as "It seems..." remains a starting point for ideological extremists that's not going to change.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

Trump is privately pushing the theory the attack on an Ohio FBI office by a Trump supporter was a false flag, report says

Trump, who hasn't said much about the death of a supporter who tried to breach an FBI office, has aired various ideas about him behind the scenes.

www.businessinsider.com

• Trump has quietly suggested that the attack on an FBI office was faked, Rolling Stone reported.
• Trump has said little publicly about Ricky Shiffer, who was killed attempting to breach the office.
• Baseless claims that Shiffer's attack was a ruse have been spreading on social media too.

 

[Toni]

You said I was making stuff up. I wasn’t.

You did manage to confuse the Minnesotan Wizard with

Sure, he would never have dinner with a woman unless Mother were present but bfd.

I knew what you were referring to, it's quaint but common around here.

Frankly, I'd forgotten about it. I don't really pay much attention to Pence anymore. Jarhyn turned it into family dysfunction.

Recognizing that women exist as other than mothers and mother figures is not misogyny.

Failing to recognize that mothering is a big, important, lifework is misogynistic.
Tom

Relegating women to only motherhood and forbidding, hindering or discounting any other aspect of her life and valuing her only for being a mother is deeply misogynistic.

At the risk of putting this all back on track...

Pence seems to be the classic "a woman's place is in the home making babies" Republican. I'm sure he did a big "thank you Jesus" when Roe v Wade was overturned and didn't even for a nanosecond think about the impacts it would have on victims of rape or incest, women with ectopic pregnancies, women of color (that anti-choice laws affect disproportionately), teens whom the "abstinence only" education model failed, and women who are simply not financially capable of traveling across possibly several states to get healthcare.

As for his actions on January 6th? He did the right thing, but only after being reminded by a former VP what his role was...which means that he had to ask. So he was at least considering overturning the election for Trump, and was finally pushed into doing his job once he was backed into a corner. He is no hero. Subsequently, he has - if quietly - stood by Trump and all the "accomplishments" of their administration, including packing the Supreme Court with a few extra religious fanatics/misogynists. I'm guessing that he's "outraged" that Trump's home was searched, and probably agrees with all the right wing talking points being thrown out there about his traitorous former boss. I think it was terrible that the mob chanted "hang Mike Pence," but if they simply yelled "fuck Mike Pence," I would tend to agree with them on that narrow point.

What does it say about Pence that he was reminded of the limits of his office by Dan Quayle? Although, now that I think about it, there were perhaps some similarities between Quayle’s tenure as VP and Pence’s.

 

[crazyfingers]

What does it say about Pence that he was reminded of the limits of his office by Dan Quayle? Although, now that I think about it, there were perhaps some similarities between Quayle’s tenure as VP and Pence’s.

Another one-term VP who had to preside over the counting of the electoral college votes as the loser. A time when the GOP, while i believed very wrong on the issues, was at least not the party of treason.

 

[Toni]

What does it say about Pence that he was reminded of the limits of his office by Dan Quayle? Although, now that I think about it, there were perhaps some similarities between Quayle’s tenure as VP and Pence’s.

Another one-term VP who had to preside over the counting of the electoral college votes as the loser. A time when the GOP, while i believed very wrong on the issues, was at least not the party of treason.

That but I was thinking in particular of the fact that both served under POTUS who may not have had the mental acuity one would hope for in a POTUS (at least in Reagan’s second term when he was clearly slipping a few cogs)

 

[Swammerdami]

The constant repetition of the Pence-calls-his-wife-Mother meme just shows that American politics has run amok.

Within families it is common to refer to parents of people present as Mom or Dad, or Grandma and Grandpa (with grandchildren present). It’s way less common for people to refer to their spouses in general public as Mother or Father much less in a professional setting.

There’s a line between honoring the mother or father of your children and relegating them to existing only as the parent of your children.

Recognizing that women exist as other than mothers and mother figures is not misogyny. I think even Amy Coney Barrett would agree.

After our first child was born we read a story, and then began calling each other 'Daddy-bear', 'Mommy-bear' and 'Baby-bear.' The names stuck and I continued to call my late wife 'Mommy-bear', or more often just 'Mommy.' I also called her 'Super-girl.' I was old enough to be her father (and she often called me 'Daddy-bear') — do I need psychiatry to discover if she was a mother-figure to me? (I admit that in some ways she reminded me of my own extraordinary mother.)

We avoided the names when others were present but I'll guess some acquaintances overheard these pet-names. If I were a Republican politician, I suppose that acquaintance might have reported it to the National Enquirer and I'd be the target of this ridiculous meme instead of Pence.

 

[Jarhyn]

I’m not making anything g up but I did presume everyone knew that Pence referred to his wife as Mother. My apologies for any confusion.

I was referring specifically to @Jarhyn 's post. I quoted it.

I wasn't talking about the Trump Administration's response to C19 or anything else.

Referring to the mother of your children as Mother is a bit quaint. But frankly, I'd like to see good mothers get more appreciation.

Feminist misogynistic people seem to think that's a problem.
Tom

You said I was making stuff up. I wasn’t.

Within families it is common to refer to parents of people present as Mom or Dad, or Grandma and Grandpa (with grandchildren present). It’s way less common for people to refer to their spouses in general public as Mother or Father much less in a professional setting.

There’s a line between honoring the mother or father of your children and relegating them to existing only as the parent of your children.

Recognizing that women exist as other than mothers and mother figures is not misogyny. I think even Amy Coney Barrett would agree.

Oh, I expect that he has a much more interesting relationship with "mother". It's probably not healthy or acknowledged. It's probably got a fucked up power dynamic.

But I just don't want to have that kind of fetish behavior in the open outside of Pride month, and especially not from someone who treats gays like unpersons not deserving of a real public health response.

It's a different matter when you're in a gay bar, or even acknowledge that gay bars are ok places to be, and when you are Mike fucking Pence.

Would you, Tom, like it if I started calling my husband "daddy"? I don't think it would make you very comfortable.

When fantasies dip into the sexual or into themes that minors could very well misconstrue, that kind of shit needs to stay in 18+ rated situations.

Of course my mind goes there because I'm a pretty twisted biscuit, but I see what I see, and Pence oozes of it.

 

[Jarhyn]

I’m not making anything g up but I did presume everyone knew that Pence referred to his wife as Mother. My apologies for any confusion.

I was referring specifically to @Jarhyn 's post. I quoted it.

I wasn't talking about the Trump Administration's response to C19 or anything else.

Referring to the mother of your children as Mother is a bit quaint. But frankly, I'd like to see good mothers get more appreciation.

Feminist misogynistic people seem to think that's a problem.
Tom

You said I was making stuff up. I wasn’t.

Within families it is common to refer to parents of people present as Mom or Dad, or Grandma and Grandpa (with grandchildren present). It’s way less common for people to refer to their spouses in general public as Mother or Father much less in a professional setting.

There’s a line between honoring the mother or father of your children and relegating them to existing only as the parent of your children.

Recognizing that women exist as other than mothers and mother figures is not misogyny. I think even Amy Coney Barrett would agree.

Oh, I expect that he has a much more interesting relationship with "mother". It's probably not healthy or acknowledged. It's probably got a fucked up power dynamic.

But I just don't want to have that kind of fetish behavior in the open outside of Pride month, and especially not from someone who treats gays like unpersons not deserving of a real public health response.

It's a different matter when you're in a gay bar, or even acknowledge that gay bars are ok places to be, and when you are Mike fucking Pence.

@TomC: Would you, Tom, like it if I started calling my husband "daddy"? I don't think it would make you very comfortable.

When fantasies dip into the sexual or into themes that minors could very well misconstrue, that kind of shit needs to stay in 18+ rated situations, and we'll away from

 

[atrib]

Relegating women to only motherhood and forbidding, hindering or discounting any other aspect of her life and valuing her only for being a mother is deeply misogynistic.

Lots of older men down south who adore their wives and have wonderful, respectful relationships with them call them mother in public. And sometimes the wives call their husbands papa or dad. I don't see anything disrespectful about that. I also have no idea what the relationship between Mr and Mrs Pence is like.

 

[jonatha]

That but I was thinking in particular of the fact that both served under POTUS who may not have had the mental acuity one would hope for in a POTUS (at least in Reagan’s second term when he was clearly slipping a few cogs)

Quayle was Bush Sr.'s veep...