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Marijuana

steve_bank

Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Joined
Nov 9, 2017
Messages
14,348
Location
seattle
Basic Beliefs
secular-skeptic

I am not unfamiliar, the last time I used pot or other recreational drugs was around 1974.

Way back pot smokers would say it is safer than alcohol and tobacco. They would also object to it being celled a drug which it is. There are drugs and their is pot. It was claimed it is not addictive which it is.

Over the last few years as more long term data is gathered pot is not looking any better than tobacco.

There have been multiple reports of mental problems among teens. Long term cognitive problems.

As I do not drive anymore I walk and take the bus around Seattle. Here in Seattle where most drugs have been decriminalized pot is everywhere. Pot smoke coming from cars, young people on scooters smoking. There have been police reports of pot contributing to violence as can be the case with alcohol.

Intoxication is intoxication regardless.

The smell is everywhere downtown.

In the news yesterday a growing correlation between pot smokinglu8ng cancer, and throat cancer. That is on top of the psychological portable reported, like psychosis among teen smokers.

My building is non smoking, but you smell pot in the hallways by people smocking in their apartments

The old term is wino for people hanging out drinking cheap wine from a paper bag. Now it is pot.

Young people in the middle of week hanging out on the street smoking pot.
 
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Went for a walk just now with Wonder the dog. Morning light on the river is positively intoxicating.
Yeah, that John Denver dude knew what he was talking about.
I get high on nature. I've thought about taking a puff or two on my bike ride through the park but it would probably hit me pretty hard during exercise. And I'd drink all my water. By time I got back to my truck, my lips would be stuck to the tops of my teeth. Not a good look.
 
Yeah I don’t like to get stoned “out in nature” any more; it distracts from and diminishes the natural experience. Never ride stoned either.
But I do like to take puff before swimming laps. Staves off boredom and keeps me from thinking about lap numbers. Sometimes I’ll even blow past the mile point where I would normally be thinking “that’s that, time to quit”, and just keep swimming laps for another 15-30 minutes.
I hear from some distance runners that they think weed helps them hit a “runners’ high” faster … others say it wrecks their rhythm.
 
I'm at a point where I don't get any benefit from pot or alcohol. But I've been drinking Tulsi tea nightly for years, not sure how long now. It's more like an anti-intoxicant, all it does is remove stress, without causing sleepiness or any other effects.

The shop I buy it from sells a lot of it.
 
The benefits outweigh the risks, for me and millions of humans. Cannabis and hemp have been used for tens of thousands of years by humans. Humans use all sorts of substances for all sorts of reasons.

Humans have an endocannabinoid system in their bodies; why? What might be the evolutionary purpose for the human body to have evolved with cannabis receptors in our puny human brains?

Society has not yet caught up to science in many areas, including in terms of treating our offspring with the kind of care we ought to consider, given their biological realities. Thanks to advances in neuroscience, we understand more about brain development than ever before, from its rudimentary foundations in utero to its continuing development through the 25th year.

Right? We know that human brains aren't fully developed before the 25th year?

Then why are young humans whose ages end in the word "teens" considered to be adults under law? Able to enter into life-changing legal obligations such as student, home, and other loans, appearing in pornography, becoming legally married, joining the military and understanding the full ramifications of combat on this brain that we know has yet to be developed?

Zero studies exist that demonstrate that cannabis consumption by smoking, alone, will definitely result in cancer. Oh, I know that no such thing is really possible, but, still. Numerous studies exist that demonstrate the cancer-causing properties of alcohol. Tobacco goes without saying. Science has determined that there is zero safe amount of alcohol consumption, right?

So why care about cannabis? Everybody's gotta die of something. Cancer's gonna get you, the longer you live, anyway. Cannabis is non-toxic and has multiple therapeutic benefits.

The link provided in the opening post does not contain any factual information that could say either way if cannabis alone is a factor in the development of lung or other cancers.

I feel that if society comes to an agreement that it dislikes the smell of weed, society could provide housing and other community benefits to cannabis consumers in places where the smell won't bother anyone. I, for one, desperately await my new, free home.

Oh, wait. Society has yet to reach agreement on forcing medical care onto the disabled and addicted, forcing the homeless into safe homes, or, how to handle the whole brain development versus legal responsibility situation. I doubt we'll ever end up eliminating or eradicating the toxins and the other substances that humans like to consume.

Why are archaeologists finding ancient hemp ropes and evidence of cannabis use in sacred rituals daring back tens of thousands of years, and we know about frankincense and myrrh, but, cannabis and hemp are absent from all of our whole entire language, even in the Bible?? Hmm!

It is almost as if all the knowledge of the herbal remedy's historic use went up in smoke in the Library of Alexandria, or, something.
 
So why care about cannabis? Everybody's gotta die of something. Cancer's gonna get you, the longer you live, anyway. Cannabis is non-toxic and has multiple therapeutic benefits.

Brain damage and mental health issues, mostly.

I've said it in previous marijuana threads, but it's not about the benefits outweighing the risks, it's about the risks being non-zero, and making people who are using Cannabis aware of those risks. Tobacco and alcohol are broadly legal, which makes public awareness campaigns about them more common. People are able to make informed decisions about their use.

Marijuana has numerous risks that few people know about because there are no awareness campaigns, and everyone's convinced it's a wonder drug. I'm all for legalization, happy that it happened in Canada, but those using need to be better informed.
 

I am not unfamiliar, the last time I used pot or other recreational drugs was around 1974.

Way back pot smokers would say it is safer than alcohol and tobacco. They would also object to it being celled a drug which it is. There are drugs and their is pot. It was claimed it is not addictive which it is.

Over the last few years as more long term data is gathered pot is not looking any better than tobacco.

Pot is a drug and can be addictive, but the vast majority of users show no addiction and it is not remotely as addictive as alcohol or tobacco, which studies show is the most addictive drug there is (more than cocaine and heroin).

As I do not drive anymore I walk and take the bus around Seattle. Here in Seattle where most drugs have been decriminalized pot is everywhere. Pot smoke coming from cars, young people on scooters smoking. There have been police reports of pot contributing to violence as can be the case with alcohol.

Intoxication is intoxication regardless.

No. First, police reports don't mean shit. Cops have zero ability to tell whether pot contributed to a person's violent behavior.
Second, almost all studies claiming link between pot and aggression are correlational and only show weak inconsistent correlations.
The one study that did a true causal experiment that compared pot and alcohol showed that alcohol increased both subjective feelings of aggression and objective measures of aggressive behavior, whereas pot actually had the opposite effect. There may be some minority of people for whom pot increases aggression, but the norm is the opposite, and with alcohol the norm is increased aggression.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00213-016-4371-1

I say that as someone who drinks somewhat heavily, but uses pot only a few times a year. So, I am not defending my drug of choice.

The smell is everywhere downtown.

Yeah, I agree the constant smell of it so many places is annoying.

In the news yesterday a growing correlation between pot smokinglu8ng cancer, and throat cancer.

There is some medical danger to excessive smoking of anything, but the evidence shows pot smoking isn't close to as bad as tobacco smoking. This study showed a very linear decrease in lung function with increasing frequency of tobacco smoking, but little relationship with pot smoking. Part of it is that tobacco is so addictive that a huge % of users smoking dozens of cigarettes every day, whereas most pot users smoke only occasionally and almost none smoke many joints per day (I've known one such person in my half century of life).the

This study compared lung cancer rates of smokers of tobacco vs pot. Tobacco massively increases lung cancer, and even most infrequent tobacco smokers have 2.5 times the cancer rate of nonsmokers, and most frequent smokers have 25 times the rate. In contrast, there is no overall increase in cancer among pot smokers. Only the very small % of people who smoked at least one joint every day for over 10 years showed increased cancer rates.

That is on top of the psychological portable reported, like psychosis among teen smokers.
There some correlational evidence between teen smoking and later psychosis, such as schizophrenia. However, even if the relationship is causal, there is no evidence it causes it on its own and only people already prone to schizophrenia are at higher risk from smoking, and those people are less than 1% of the population. IOW, 99% of people are at no risk of psychosis if they smoke pot. That said, people with a family history of psychosis should avoid it.
 
There some correlational evidence between teen smoking and later psychosis, such as schizophrenia. However, even if the relationship is causal, there is no evidence it causes it on its own and only people already prone to schizophrenia are at higher risk from smoking, and those people are less than 1% of the population. IOW, 99% of people are at no risk of psychosis if they smoke pot. That said, people with a family history of psychosis should avoid it.

For those not at risk of psychosis I think the big thing is how it impacts motivation, and broader cognitive function. But this is usually only going to present in those who use chronically. I've seen it, and I've also seen people who don't smoke much do fine.

Addiction will likely hit chronic users harder as well.
 
The Mayo Clinic page is really disinformative, how can it be trusted at all, when it has some basic facts wrong?

Vaping marijuana was tied to a 2019 outbreak of e-cigarette or vaping product use-associated lung injury, or EVALI. At that time, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention cautioned people on using vaping projects containing marijuana, especially from informal sources like family, friends or acquaintances, due to EVALI outbreaks.

The problem was Vitamin E acetate. Cannabis activists have been speaking out against the use of Vitamin E acetate ever since it was determined that this unsafe substance was the common denominator of vaping-related pulmonary problems, such as "popcorn lung." I was one of many black market cannabis vape consumers who had to trust my "guy" or my "plug" to get me the kind of vapes that were said to be made without Vitamin E acetate.


The Mayo Clinic could have been clear but instead is obscuring facts. Why?
 
So why care about cannabis? Everybody's gotta die of something. Cancer's gonna get you, the longer you live, anyway. Cannabis is non-toxic and has multiple therapeutic benefits.

Brain damage and mental health issues, mostly.

I've said it in previous marijuana threads, but it's not about the benefits outweighing the risks, it's about the risks being non-zero, and making people who are using Cannabis aware of those risks. Tobacco and alcohol are broadly legal, which makes public awareness campaigns about them more common. People are able to make informed decisions about their use.

Marijuana has numerous risks that few people know about because there are no awareness campaigns, and everyone's convinced it's a wonder drug. I'm all for legalization, happy that it happened in Canada, but those using need to be better informed.
I for one have never said that cannabis consumption was risk-free. I say that the known benefits, for me, now, as an adult, farrrr outweigh any risk that anyone might be able to uncover.

Why do you hold definitely-dangerous alcohol to such a lower standard than non-toxic cannabis?? I don't understand.
 
There some correlational evidence between teen smoking and later psychosis, such as schizophrenia. However, even if the relationship is causal, there is no evidence it causes it on its own and only people already prone to schizophrenia are at higher risk from smoking, and those people are less than 1% of the population. IOW, 99% of people are at no risk of psychosis if they smoke pot. That said, people with a family history of psychosis should avoid it.

For those not at risk of psychosis I think the big thing is how it impacts motivation, and broader cognitive function. But this is usually only going to present in those who use chronically. I've seen it, and I've also seen people who don't smoke much do fine.

Addiction will likely hit chronic users harder as well.

Nearly all the evidence of negative long term effects on cognitive function are for people who smoked significantly as a teen. There is little evidence of such impacts for older adults who smoke and even some evidence of a positive effects.

"The limited evidence on this important topic suggests that use in older ages may not be linked with poorer cognitive performance, thus detrimental effects of early-life cannabis use may not translate to use in older ages. Rather, use in old ages may be associated with improved brain health, in accordance with the known neuroprotective properties of several cannabinoids."
 
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There some correlational evidence between teen smoking and later psychosis, such as schizophrenia. However, even if the relationship is causal, there is no evidence it causes it on its own and only people already prone to schizophrenia are at higher risk from smoking, and those people are less than 1% of the population. IOW, 99% of people are at no risk of psychosis if they smoke pot. That said, people with a family history of psychosis should avoid it.

For those not at risk of psychosis I think the big thing is how it impacts motivation, and broader cognitive function. But this is usually only going to present in those who use chronically. I've seen it, and I've also seen people who don't smoke much do fine.

Addiction will likely hit chronic users harder as well.

Nearly all the evidence of negative long term effects on cognitive function are for people who smoked significantly as a teen. There is little evidence of such impacts for older adults who smoke and even some evidence of a positive effects.

"The limited evidence on this important topic suggests that use in older ages may not be linked with poorer cognitive performance, thus detrimental effects of early-life cannabis use may not translate to use in older ages. Rather, use in old ages may be associated with improved brain health, in accordance with the known neuroprotective properties of several cannabinoids."

Did you link to the wrong article? The one you posted is about lung cancer. I'd be interested in reading the source of your quote.
 
So why care about cannabis? Everybody's gotta die of something. Cancer's gonna get you, the longer you live, anyway. Cannabis is non-toxic and has multiple therapeutic benefits.

Brain damage and mental health issues, mostly.

I've said it in previous marijuana threads, but it's not about the benefits outweighing the risks, it's about the risks being non-zero, and making people who are using Cannabis aware of those risks. Tobacco and alcohol are broadly legal, which makes public awareness campaigns about them more common. People are able to make informed decisions about their use.

Marijuana has numerous risks that few people know about because there are no awareness campaigns, and everyone's convinced it's a wonder drug. I'm all for legalization, happy that it happened in Canada, but those using need to be better informed.
I for one have never said that cannabis consumption was risk-free. I say that the known benefits, for me, now, as an adult, farrrr outweigh any risk that anyone might be able to uncover.

Why do you hold definitely-dangerous alcohol to such a lower standard than non-toxic cannabis?? I don't understand.

What about my post made you think that I hold alcohol to a lower standard than cannabis?
 
There some correlational evidence between teen smoking and later psychosis, such as schizophrenia. However, even if the relationship is causal, there is no evidence it causes it on its own and only people already prone to schizophrenia are at higher risk from smoking, and those people are less than 1% of the population. IOW, 99% of people are at no risk of psychosis if they smoke pot. That said, people with a family history of psychosis should avoid it.

For those not at risk of psychosis I think the big thing is how it impacts motivation, and broader cognitive function. But this is usually only going to present in those who use chronically. I've seen it, and I've also seen people who don't smoke much do fine.

Addiction will likely hit chronic users harder as well.

Nearly all the evidence of negative long term effects on cognitive function are for people who smoked significantly as a teen. There is little evidence of such impacts for older adults who smoke and even some evidence of a positive effects.

"The limited evidence on this important topic suggests that use in older ages may not be linked with poorer cognitive performance, thus detrimental effects of early-life cannabis use may not translate to use in older ages. Rather, use in old ages may be associated with improved brain health, in accordance with the known neuroprotective properties of several cannabinoids."

Did you link to the wrong article? The one you posted is about lung cancer. I'd be interested in reading the source of your quote.
Ooops. I just edited the link my original post. Try it now. BTW, it's a review article of existing research, not presenting original data.
 
There some correlational evidence between teen smoking and later psychosis, such as schizophrenia. However, even if the relationship is causal, there is no evidence it causes it on its own and only people already prone to schizophrenia are at higher risk from smoking, and those people are less than 1% of the population. IOW, 99% of people are at no risk of psychosis if they smoke pot. That said, people with a family history of psychosis should avoid it.

For those not at risk of psychosis I think the big thing is how it impacts motivation, and broader cognitive function. But this is usually only going to present in those who use chronically. I've seen it, and I've also seen people who don't smoke much do fine.

Addiction will likely hit chronic users harder as well.

Nearly all the evidence of negative long term effects on cognitive function are for people who smoked significantly as a teen. There is little evidence of such impacts for older adults who smoke and even some evidence of a positive effects.

"The limited evidence on this important topic suggests that use in older ages may not be linked with poorer cognitive performance, thus detrimental effects of early-life cannabis use may not translate to use in older ages. Rather, use in old ages may be associated with improved brain health, in accordance with the known neuroprotective properties of several cannabinoids."

Did you link to the wrong article? The one you posted is about lung cancer. I'd be interested in reading the source of your quote.
Ooops. I just edited the link my original post. Try it now. BTW, it's a review article of existing research, not presenting original data.

I wouldn't ignore this sentence, right after the comment you posted:

Yet, firm conclusions cannot be drawn from the current evidence-base due to lack of research with strong methodological designs.

It's fine to look at the benefits of pot, but if you want to figure out it's impact the science needs to be strong.

To me the math is pretty simple. Pot's an intoxicant, it has uses as a pain reliever and for recreation, but at the end of the day it's mostly degradative. I can buy that teens see the worst impact, a big part of which might be due to chronic and prolonged use. Those who start as teens have used for a longer time (in addition to the teen years being a bad time to smoke).

Everything in moderation, just don't smoke everyday, and limit your use.
 
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