Marijuana

[Person19960]

I respectfully disagree that daily consumption of cannabis is harmful or undesirable in any way to an adult.

 

[bilby]

Humans have an endocannabinoid system in their bodies;

No, they don't. They have a dopamine system; Cannabinoids are just sufficiently similar to dopamine as to be able to stimulate that system. Nicotine does the same, while opiates act to block the GABA system, which normally supresses the Dopamine system.

All recreational drugs affect neural signalling. As do all other activities that we enjoy.

We don't have cannabinoid receptors so that we will enjoy cannabis; We enjoy cannabis, because it happens to directly stimulate the dopamine system that mediates happiness and enjoyment.

As any biochemist can tell you, we only enjoy two things: Dopamine and Serotonin.

why? What might be the evolutionary purpose for the human body to have evolved with cannabis receptors in our puny human brains?

Evolution doesn't have purposes.

 

[bilby]

I respectfully disagree that daily consumption of cannabis is harmful or undesirable in any way to an adult.

It's undesirable to me, because it would render me both physiologically incapable of doing my job safely, and legally incapable of doing it at all.

 

[southernhybrid]

I like the idea of everything in moderation. I've known people who smoked from the time they got up until the time they went to bed. They did have some serious mental side effects and smoking anything that much could be risky. But, if someone enjoys a little in the evening or when they are on vacation, I don't see that as any different than someone who enjoys a glass or two of wine in the evening. Nothing in excess.

Cannabis makes my sister a bit paranoid, or it did when she was young, but she suffers from anxiety, has a history of severe depression and probably some PTSD.

I used to enjoy it, but it does almost nothing for me now, so I rarely indulge. It should be legal and regulated in the US, like it is in many states. The tax rate should be in line with ETOH. People don't need big brother to protect them from drugs. Besides that, ETOH is probably the worst, most abused, potentially recreational drug around and it's been legal since prohibition didn't work so well.

A lot of people are going to use drugs regardless if they are legal or not, which is why I support legalization of recreational drugs. Even the strongest ones, if legal, could help users stay safe. Needle exchanges, offers of free rehab if desired and keeping an enormous number of people out of prisons would benefit society.

 

[bilby]

I like the idea of everything in moderation. I've known people who smoked from the time they got up until the time they went to bed. They did have some serious mental side effects and smoking anything that much could be risky. But, if someone enjoys a little in the evening or when they are on vacation, I don't see that as any different than someone who enjoys a glass or two of wine in the evening. Nothing in excess.

Cannabis makes my sister a bit paranoid, or it did when she was young, but she suffers from anxiety, has a history of severe depression and probably some PTSD.

I used to enjoy it, but it does almost nothing for me now, so I rarely indulge. It should be legal and regulated in the US, like it is in many states. The tax rate should be in line with ETOH. People don't need big brother to protect them from drugs. Besides that, ETOH is probably the worst, most abused, potentially recreational drug around and it's been legal since prohibition didn't work so well.

A lot of people are going to use drugs regardless if they are legal or not, which is why I support legalization of recreational drugs. Even the strongest ones, if legal, could help users stay safe. Needle exchanges, offers of free rehab if desired and keeping an enormous number of people out of prisons would benefit society.

I use ethanol, in moderation, but not cannabis. Not because I prefer the former, nor even because it is legal in my jurisdiction, but because it has a relatively short biological half-life.

I have a personal policy not to consume ethanol within 24 hours of going to work, but even if I were to reduce that to a mere few hours, I would be able to meet the legal requirement to have zero detectable ethanol in my system before commencing work, and would be able to pass the random test, if selected to take one.

The same set of pre-work tests can detect cannabis use for many days after the event. It is essentially impossible for me to use cannabis recreationally without failing my next test, and losing my job, even if I smoked just a single joint at the beginning of a week's leave.

 

[southernhybrid]

I like the idea of everything in moderation. I've known people who smoked from the time they got up until the time they went to bed. They did have some serious mental side effects and smoking anything that much could be risky. But, if someone enjoys a little in the evening or when they are on vacation, I don't see that as any different than someone who enjoys a glass or two of wine in the evening. Nothing in excess.

Cannabis makes my sister a bit paranoid, or it did when she was young, but she suffers from anxiety, has a history of severe depression and probably some PTSD.

I used to enjoy it, but it does almost nothing for me now, so I rarely indulge. It should be legal and regulated in the US, like it is in many states. The tax rate should be in line with ETOH. People don't need big brother to protect them from drugs. Besides that, ETOH is probably the worst, most abused, potentially recreational drug around and it's been legal since prohibition didn't work so well.

A lot of people are going to use drugs regardless if they are legal or not, which is why I support legalization of recreational drugs. Even the strongest ones, if legal, could help users stay safe. Needle exchanges, offers of free rehab if desired and keeping an enormous number of people out of prisons would benefit society.

I use ethanol, in moderation, but not cannabis. Not because I prefer the former, nor even because it is legal in my jurisdiction, but because it has a relatively short biological half-life.

I have a personal policy not to consume ethanol within 24 hours of going to work, but even if I were to reduce that to a mere few hours, I would be able to meet the legal requirement to have zero detectable ethanol in my system before commencing work, and would be able to pass the random test, if selected to take one.

The same set of pre-work tests can detect cannabis use for many days after the event. It is essentially impossible for me to use cannabis recreationally without failing my next test, and losing my job, even if I smoked just a single joint at the beginning of a week's leave.

I get it. We always stopped using for months if either of us was looking for a job, but these days, there are nursing jobs that don't require testing because based on my personal experience, a lot of nurses use cannabis and we are short about 450,000 nurses.

I read recently that if you only use about once a week, you will probably test negative in about a week. I have some test strips so just for experimental purposes, I'm going to see how that goes. I'll have to wait until I use up my medical Mary Jane first. I don't plan on buying any more unless I totally go off of the Rx. narcotics. I won't use anything for a month before my new test. If I go off the narcotics, that's it for me. It's sad that what I consider to be the safest recreational drug stays in your system for so long, although I have known some tricky nurses that had drinks that got it out sooner. One smoked every AM and PM. I think she was self medicating, probably like an anti anxiety drug


I used to enjoy a glass of wine now and then, but the first time I had any in many years, was about a month ago, when I felt like enjoying a mild intoxication..

 

[bilby]

I read recently that if you only use about once a week, you will probably test negative in about a week. I have some test strips so just for experimental purposes, I'm going to see how that goes. I'll have to wait until I use up my medical Mary Jane first.

I will be interested to know the results.

I shalln't be risking my job on the basis of them though.

I do know of coworkers who took several tests before being caught, despite being regular cannabis smokers, so clearly the tests have a fair number of false negatives.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

While they have found a relationship between marijuana and a variety of mental illnesses that doesn't prove causation. It could also be people self-medicating.

Does it have potential harm? Certainly. How does that harm compare to other recreational chemicals? Almost certainly considerably less.

Does smoking it have potential harm? Well, duh, inhaling combustion products isn't good for you.

So long as you don't operate dangerous equipment while under the influence and so long as you keep your smoke away from me I don't care what you do with it. I have not encountered the smoke in decades but back in high school there were plenty of smokers who would congregate across the street from the school. I could never be sure of exactly the mix of the smoke but it appeared that the weed smoke made me a bit nauseous and the combination was worse. I considerably object to tobacco smoke but it doesn't make me nauseous.

I considered that side of the street a total no-go area even if that meant taking the long way around to avoid going past them.

 

[Thomas II]

Intoxication is intoxication regardless.

Went for a walk just now with Wonder the dog. Morning light on the river is positively intoxicating.

I love that classy bitch...Great personality...

 

[TSwizzle]

People don't need big brother to protect them from drugs.

A stroll along Skid Row tells me otherwise.

A lot of people are going to use drugs regardless if they are legal or not, which is why I support legalization of recreational drugs. Even the strongest ones, if legal, could help users stay safe. Needle exchanges, offers of free rehab if desired and keeping an enormous number of people out of prisons would benefit society.

It’s not going so well in many US cities.

 

[Elixir]

A stroll along Skid Row tells me otherwise.

Tells you what happens when goobermintz regulate "substance".
Did you know that government regulates substances?

 

[southernhybrid]

People don't need big brother to protect them from drugs.

A stroll along Skid Row tells me otherwise.

A lot of people are going to use drugs regardless if they are legal or not, which is why I support legalization of recreational drugs. Even the strongest ones, if legal, could help users stay safe. Needle exchanges, offers of free rehab if desired and keeping an enormous number of people out of prisons would benefit society.

It’s not going so well in many US cities.

It wouldn't be nearly as bad if these drugs were regulated and if users were offered save ways to use, or rehab instead of being punished for using a substance that isn't healthy for them. When Pence was governor of Indiana, he fought needle exchange programs for a long time, until he was finally convinced it should be permitted due to the high rise of HIV cases from people. using dirty needles. There is no reason to punish someone for doing something that hurts themselves, assuming they aren't driving under the influence or harming others, like leaving drugs around children etc.

From what I remember as a child growing up right outside of New York City, it was ETOH that left people on "skid row". That's a legal drug that is probably one of, if not the worst, when abused. Why not offer help to people who abuse drugs, instead of locking them up? Why not make drug use safer, instead of being like a religious extremist who things they should be punished for their "sins"?

Of course, some people will never be able to over come their addictions. But addiction is an illness, and an illness shouldn't be a crime. There is not evidence that using cannabis is physiologically addictive, emotionally addictive for some people, sure, but there is overwhelming evidence that tobacco and alcohol are very addictive for some people. Why are we so tolerant of some drugs, but so critical of others. I've never used anything other than cannabis in moderation and ETOH for social reasons. I certainly don't condemn people who have serious issues with other drugs. And yes, some use drugs to sell medicate, especially if they are unable to get effective treatment for mental health disorders. We have failed people who suffer from brain disorders, so why should we be surprised that some of them look for other substances to help them cope with their dreadful lives?

 

[rousseau]

I respectfully disagree that daily consumption of cannabis is harmful or undesirable in any way to an adult.

What's your basis for that belief?

It's been a while, but when pot was legalized in Canada I parsed through Google Scholar for a few weeks. I don't remember all of it, but chronic use came up as the main source of problems.

 

[Elixir]

chronic use came up as the main source of problems.

Which problems?
When was that? There has been more misinformation about weed that has been actively promulgated by governments, than any other "thing" I can think of. Maybe it's just that I have known more about it than "science" does for over a half century, whereas I just swallow what's fed to me on a lot of other subjects.

 

[Person19960]

I respectfully disagree that daily consumption of cannabis is harmful or undesirable in any way to an adult.

What's your basis for that belief?

It's been a while, but when pot was legalized in Canada I parsed through Google Scholar for a few weeks. I don't remember all of it, but chronic use came up as the main source of problems.

Well, I lack awareness of any real problems or medical maladies that are a direct result of cannabis use.
'
How is Willie Nelson holding up? How is Snoop Dogg doing? How is their health as a result of being lifelong daily cannabis consumers? Are Cheech and Chong okay??

I possess knowledge of the benefits of cannabis use. Just yesterday, my medical marijuana doctor site, Leafwell, sent an email with a lot of information about how cannabis helps people heal. Here is the link.

Medical Cannabis and Chronic Pain​

How Might Medical Cannabis Help?​

The most well-known and researched constituents for pain treatment are the cannabinoids (mainly tetrahydrocannabinol or THC, cannabidiol or CBD, and beta-caryophyllene); the cannflavins A, B, and C; and the terpenes (including terpenoids).

When these compounds are taken together, they simultaneously stimulate many systems in the body, including the endocannabinoid system’s receptors (ECS). In this way, taking medical cannabis can be like taking acetaminophen (Tylenol), ibuprofen, a muscle relaxer, an antidepressant, and a potent analgesic in perfect harmony.

Here are several ways in which medical cannabis may help manage chronic pain.

• Inflammatory pain: Cannabis contains many anti-inflammatory compounds, including tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), cannabidiol (CBD), cannabigerol (CBG), and terpenes like limonene, myrcene, and linalool.
• Neuropathic (nerve) pain: Multiple randomized controlled trials (RCTs) have demonstrated the efficacy of medical cannabis in treating neuropathic pain based on quality of life (QOL) scores.
• Nociceptive pain (pain by damage to body tissue): Beta-caryophyllene, a terpene and atypical cannabinoid found in cannabis, has been shown to attenuate and decrease nociceptive pain in animal studies.
• Functional pain (pain with no obvious point of origin): It is suggested that dysregulation in one’s endocannabinoid system (ECS) is a potential cause of functional pain associated with conditions like IBS and fibromyalgia.
• Reduction in opioid use: Opioids have many adverse side effects, including tolerance, physical dependence, and respiratory depression. States with legal cannabis stores are linked to fewer opioid deaths. Other studies have shown supportive results, with patients using cannabis as medicine (CaM) as a substitute for pain medications (especially opioids), antidepressants, and arthritis medications.
• The endocannabinoid system as a “multi-facet therapeutic target“: As cannabis compounds (cannabinoids, terpenes, flavonoids) can affect multiple receptor systems, such as opioid, serotonin and dopamine receptors, it is theoretically possible that medical cannabis could be used to reduce or replace the need for multiple pills (e.g., cannabis for both depression and physical pain, as opposed to antidepressants for depression and opioids for physical pain).
• Acute pain (sudden, sharp pain that lasts less than six months): Most studies focus on cannabis for chronic pain. One pilot study assessing the effects of dronabinol (synthetic THC) on opioid medication use in patients following physical trauma showed a significant reduction in opioid medication requirements among patients given Dronabinol alongside their regular pain medication regimen. However, reductions in pain were similar between dronabinol-and-opioid and opioid-only cohorts. Although promising, this study does not reach any hard conclusions about THC’s efficacy in treating acute pain.
• Improved function: A recent guideline published by the British Medical Journal (BMJ) shows that cannabis may reduce pain and improve physical function.

Overall, the evidence suggests that medical cannabis may be beneficial in chronic pain management and an alternative to opioids, sedatives, and/or antidepressants that may be prescribed to control various types and causes of chronic pain.

Much more at the link.


Personally, I know of zero negative outcomes for cannabis consumers that are not LEGAL consequences of using this medicinal plant.

Yes, I know that plenty of people suffer palpitations and panic the first time or two that they try pot. No shit, Sherlock, you mean this natural plant that makes you feel different can somehow land you in jail or prison or dead in some places, for the history of time (post-Library of Alexandria), and THAT is the framework of one's knowledge of pot, and the concept of being jailed or killed all because you had a plant, a weed, is the concept and mindset and culture that exists prior to ever even trying it?

HMM. If only it had always been safe and legal, perhaps people would panic less.

I know that I damn well suffer less if I am able to obtain and consume or apply any of a variety of cannabis products that are safe and legal and regulated by the state (Commonwealth) of Pennsylvania. I am suffering a whole hell of a lot of pain - and today, this week, it is worse, worse, worse. WHY? I lack the budget for my legal medical Scroopy Noopers.

"Scroopy Noopers" is the name of one strain, but, I now use it as a blanket term for medical marijuana. I think I'm funny.

I assert that safe and legal and regulated is better for everyone involved from every angle. But, I say that about a lot of things, go figure.

 

[Person19960]

We could have an entire sub-conversation just about terpenes!

 

[Elixir]

We could have an entire sub-conversation just about terpenes!

Harvest at first light. That’s my best advice

 

[rousseau]

Personally, I know of zero negative outcomes for cannabis consumers that are not LEGAL consequences of using this medicinal plant.

Your post contains a lot of conjecture and some evidence of pain-relief benefits from a pot retailer. Do you actually know how much Snoop Dogg smokes, or has smoked throughout his life? Willie Nelson? Do you know that it hasn't impacted them?

I'm not trying to be the marijuana police, I couldn't care less if people smoke, but your posts are a good example of what I'm talking about. People who are convinced pot is a wonder drug, without informing themselves about negative effects. You're claiming that you 'don't know of any negative impacts', but from what I can tell you've never looked at any science on the topic, so of course you don't.

 

[rousseau]

chronic use came up as the main source of problems.

Which problems?
When was that? There has been more misinformation about weed that has been actively promulgated by governments, than any other "thing" I can think of. Maybe it's just that I have known more about it than "science" does for over a half century, whereas I just swallow what's fed to me on a lot of other subjects.

Brain damage and mental health issues, insensitive dopamine receptors and reward systems, motivational problems. It's all there on Google Scholar with a couple hours of unbiased searching and reading. But again, we're talking about chronic, heavy use.

I'm not going to say pot is a dangerous drug. But if you compare someone who's smoked a joint every day for twenty years, versus someone who hasn't, everything else being equal the latter person is more mentally healthy, and probably got more done in the former twenty years.

Again, not the marijuana police. People can smoke whatever they want, I'm just relaying what I've read on the topic.

 

[Elixir]

if you compare someone who's smoked a joint every day for twenty years, versus someone who hasn't

I don't think it's even POSSIBLE to do that.
For one thing, a joint 50 years ago wasn't the same thing as a joint 20 years ago, which wasn't the same thing as a joint today.
I've been using weed for almost 60 years, so I KNOW that. It's not just something I read.
But I can only opine that if I had been smoking a joint a day of today's weed starting 60 years ago, I probably wouldn't have made it to 50 years ago. For all the tolerance and familiarity with it, I rarely smoke more than 2-3 puffs of pot in a day (evening; I don't habitually smoke it in the daytime) and more typically only one puff. Anyone smoking a joint a day of today's weed has either rendered themselves non-functional or has attained a degree of tolerance at which I can only marvel.
OTOH, I will readily defer to the opinion of any number of present company who cares to assess my mental (or physical for that matter) condition based on what I post here, and is willing to surmise how much better those functions would be operating for me, had I not fallen down the rabbit hole of The Weed With Roots In Hell.
Bring it on.

Brain damage and mental health issues, insensitive dopamine receptors and reward systems, motivational problems.

What kind of brain damage? What specific mental health issues? Were they (or their signs) present prior to cannabis use? Do the effects persist?
Dopamine sensitivity effects are transient afaik. As are "motivational problems".
I think if you look at alcohol in the same light you'll find those same downsides in amplified form, without any of the upsides of marijuana.
The massive intake you cite for those "studies" can't be mirrored with alcohol "studies" because equivalent dosages of alcohol would kill people outright.
I'm not saying that it isn't possible for deleterious effects to occur, but I don't see them as more severe than over-consumption of anything else - say, donuts or red meat.