Media treatment of Bernie Sanders: a story in pictures

[Koyaanisqatsi]

You can start by not calling people "a basket of deplorables"

As you well know, she did not.

You tried Hillary Clinton and the corporate Democrats last time

And won by almost three million votes.

Why not try something that may actually win you the whitehouse?

As you also well know, what put Trump in the WH had zero to do with policy, unless cheating, racism and a gross ignorance in a targeted tiny percentage that, judging from nearly every single poll since the 2018 correction has since been abundantly eradicated, can be called "policy."

 

[Treedbear]

You can start by not calling people "a basket of deplorables"

As you well know, she did not.
...

What's this then -

At an LGBT campaign fundraising event in New York City on September 9, Clinton gave a speech and said the following:

I know there are only 60 days left to make our case – and don't get complacent; don't see the latest outrageous, offensive, inappropriate comment and think, "Well, he's done this time." We are living in a volatile political environment.

You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. (Laughter/applause) Right? (Laughter/applause) They're racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic – Islamophobic – you name it. And unfortunately, there are people like that. ...

And yes I also hold that against her.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

And yes I also hold that against her.

As do I. And it would be stupid strategy even were it true. Contrast it to Obama's talking about there being no Red & Blue America but a United States of America, or Bernie or Yang or others who make an effort to bring people out of supporting Trump and into supporting their ideas. Both Bernie and Yang have cross-over appeal, which is should wake some people up to the fact that there are a good number of people who supported Trump in 2016 who do not belong in any "basket of deplorables", or even that they are hyper-conservative.

 

[Treedbear]

And yes I also hold that against her.

As do I. And it would be stupid strategy even were it true. Contrast it to Obama's talking about there being no Red & Blue America but a United States of America, or Bernie or Yang or others who make an effort to bring people out of supporting Trump and into supporting their ideas. Both Bernie and Yang have cross-over appeal, which is should wake some people up to the fact that there are a good number of people who supported Trump in 2016 who do not belong in any "basket of deplorables", or even that they are hyper-conservative.

It's not a matter of it being true or false. It's insultingly dismissive and demeaning. It's like something Trump would say if he had the vocabulary. And it was tactically inept because it could be taken personally by any Trump supporter, not just the one's she'd given up as hopeless cases.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

And yes I also hold that against her.

As do I. And it would be stupid strategy even were it true. Contrast it to Obama's talking about there being no Red & Blue America but a United States of America, or Bernie or Yang or others who make an effort to bring people out of supporting Trump and into supporting their ideas. Both Bernie and Yang have cross-over appeal, which is should wake some people up to the fact that there are a good number of people who supported Trump in 2016 who do not belong in any "basket of deplorables", or even that they are hyper-conservative.

It's not a matter of it being true or false. It's insultingly dismissive and demeaning. It's like something Trump would say if he had the vocabulary. And it was tactically inept because it could be taken personally by any Trump supporter, not just the one's she'd given up as hopeless cases.

Yup.

 

[PyramidHead]

Clinton's "deplorables" comment contains one of her more sensible observations, actually. It wasn't a great way to phrase it, but what she was expressing is something I actually agree with: you can't win everybody over. Some people are clearly not going to vote for you or join your movement, and trying to appeal to them will do more harm than good. Clinton's mistake was that she identified the wrong set of people. It's not the ones she mentioned, who are easy targets because of their noxious rhetoric and because they tend to be poor and/or uneducated. They are not all beyond hope, although winning them over requires appealing to them in a way Clinton was unable to do, by replacing their culture war mindset with class consciousness.

And once you do that, it becomes clear that the deplorables are actually a different category of people who very much do possess class consciousness, and consistently act to advance their class interests at the expense of the majority of people. One strategy they use is to set up a narrative that frames them as part of the all-important middle, who are like fawns frolicking in a grove that will scurry away and vote for Trump if you snap a twig and frighten them. These people are broadcasting a message to you: I will vote for whomever lets me keep the largest part of my excess wealth. They are the pundits, the "never-Trump Republicans" (who will all absolutely vote for Trump in a heartbeat if it benefits them to do so), the political consultants, the economic analysts, the professional/managerial upwardly mobile wonks, the think tank elites, and op-ed columnists. They will either vote blue no matter who, in which case their whining can be safely ignored, or they are legitimately considering voting for Trump instead of a progressive Democrat because they cannot abandon their class commitments. Nothing that threatens their imagined relevance to political discourse will be tolerated by them. Thankfully, these people do not form as significant a chunk of the population as they would have you believe.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What's this then -

At an LGBT campaign fundraising event in New York City on September 9, Clinton gave a speech and said the following:

I know there are only 60 days left to make our case – and don't get complacent; don't see the latest outrageous, offensive, inappropriate comment and think, "Well, he's done this time." We are living in a volatile political environment.

You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. (Laughter/applause) Right? (Laughter/applause) They're racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic – Islamophobic – you name it. And unfortunately, there are people like that. ...

And yes I also hold that against her.

The issue here is that 1) she was right 2) the deplorables have the most thin skins in the world despite their very vocal dislike of most things not them 3) Trump tried to enact (in many cases has enacted) policies that deplorable people want.

Locking up asylum seeking families, reducing legal immigration from 'those' types of countries, severely reducing Muslim immigration, demonizing asylum seekers, tried to kick LGBT service members out of the military,

These are things deplorable people want, these are the actions of the Trump administration. But deplorable people are assholes and one thing assholes hate most is being called on their assholery.

It didn't come off well, but seriously, "Bleeding out of her whatever..." isn't something a non-deplorable person cheers on. "A second amendment solution" isn't something a non-deplorable person cheers on. And now, Trump is campaigning that his asshole-ishness is a political asset. "But that's not stopping Donald Trump. He's no Mr. Nice Guy. But sometimes he takes a Donald Trump to change Washington."

No Mr. Nice Guy? That is putting it mildly.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

What's this then

A demonstration of your lack of reading comprehension and cherry-picking, since had you quoted the rest you would have noted:

You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. (Laughter/applause) Right? (Laughter/applause) They're racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic – Islamophobic – you name it. And unfortunately, there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people – now have 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks – they are irredeemable, but thankfully, they are not America.

But the "other" basket – the other basket – and I know because I look at this crowd I see friends from all over America here: I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas and — as well as, you know, New York and California — but that "other" basket of people are people who feel the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures; and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but — he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.

So, which basket are YOU in? Are you a racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, irredeemable piece of shit deplorable? No? Then she wasn't talking about you and didn't call you one.

Are you someone who feels the government let you down, the economy let you down, that nobody cares about, that nobody worries about and are desperate for change and did not buy everything Trump said, holding some hope that your life will be different? Are you someone who woke up and saw your job disappear, your child lost to heroin and feel like you're in a dead-end? Then you're not a deplorable.

And in spite of it all, and no matter what, ALL Trump supporters--deplorable and non--we need to understand and empathize with.

THAT is what she was saying as you can clearly see when you don't deliberately try to misconstrue her speech and actually quote the full section.

So now that you know this, show us that you are not a deplorable and respond with, "Oh, sorry, I fell for disingenuous asshole talking points and never read or heard the other part. I completely misjudged her."

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What's this then

A demonstration of your lack of reading comprehension and cherry-picking, since had you quoted the rest you would have noted:

Come on. Let's tone it down.

You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. (Laughter/applause) Right? (Laughter/applause) They're racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic – Islamophobic – you name it. And unfortunately, there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people – now have 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks – they are irredeemable, but thankfully, they are not America.

But the "other" basket – the other basket – and I know because I look at this crowd I see friends from all over America here: I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas and — as well as, you know, New York and California — but that "other" basket of people are people who feel the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures; and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but — he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.

So, which basket are YOU in? Are you a racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, irredeemable piece of shit deplorable? No? Then she wasn't talking about you and didn't call you one.

Are you someone who feels the government let you down, the economy let you down, that nobody cares about, that nobody worries about and are desperate for change and did not buy everything Trump said, holding some hope that your life will be different? Are you someone who woke up and saw your job disappear, your child lost to heroin and feel like you're in a dead-end? Then you're not a deplorable.

And in spite of it all, and no matter what, ALL Trump supporters--deplorable and non--we need to understand and empathize with.

THAT is what she was saying as you can clearly see when you don't deliberately try to misconstrue her speech and actually quote the full section.

There are two types of Trump voters.

1) Deplorable supporters
2) People that won't vote for a Democrat

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Come on. Let's tone it down.

There was no "tone." My description was evident and accurate with a straightforward means of simple redemption. Is Treedbear a racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, irredeemable piece of shit deplorable? No? Then Clinton wasn't talking about him and didn't call him one.

A fifth grader could understand that--hence my questioning his reading comprehension skills--and only a deplorable piece of shit would try to deliberately misconstrue it.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Wouldn't it be nice if she could squirm out that easily? Problem is she said "half of Trump supporters", which turned out to be a rather huge number. And it's highly doubtful that it doesn't include a lot of people who she sees as deplorable scum but aren't. This includes people she failed to win that Obama won and people Bernie and Yang have turned into supporters.

And the bigger point also stands that even if she was right, it was an incredibly divisive and stupid thing for her to say while trying to win a general election. Contrast it to Obama's "no black or white America, but United States of America" and to Yang's "not left. Not right. Forward" and to Bernie's and Warren's disinterest in attacking and labeling people and laser focus on their policy issues.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Wouldn't it be nice if she could squirm out that easily? Problem is she said "half of Trump supporters", which turned out to be a rather huge number.

And likely accurate. Here is a poll regarding the separation of children from their parents who had crossed into the US seeking asylum. 27% approved of it. This is that base.

And it's highly doubtful that it doesn't include a lot of people who she sees as deplorable scum but aren't.

She described the other half, as Koy quoted.

This includes people she failed to win that Obama won and people Bernie and Yang have turned into supporters.

Hillary Clinton saw increases in Florida, Virginia, California, Colorado. Her losses in PA, WI, OH, MI don't speak to the entire national picture.

Former industrial areas went for Trump hard because they believed he could do something that isn't possible. He has failed in doing the impossible, not really his fault, and the question remains how will those people in those counties vote in 2020.

And the bigger point also stands that even if she was right, it was an incredibly divisive and stupid thing for her to say while trying to win a general election. Contrast it to Obama's "no black or white America, but United States of America" and to Yang's "not left. Not right. Forward" and to Bernie's and Warren's disinterest in attacking and labeling people and laser focus on their policy issues.

It wasn't a good thing to say. People don't like hearing the truth. They want to hear about unity (W, Obama). It never happens though.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Obama was the "yes we can" guy. He ran his campaign on hope and change. That's how to win as a Democrat.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Wouldn't it be nice if she could squirm out that easily?

Of the strawman you are perpetuating and others continue to deliberately misconstrue? It's a truly despicable tactic, JP. You know it and everyone else does as well, yet you keep repeating it. Why?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Wouldn't it be nice if she could squirm out that easily?

Of the strawman you are perpetuating and others continue to deliberately misconstrue? It's a truly despicable tactic, JP. You know it and everyone else does as well, yet you keep repeating it. Why?

Your accusation of a strawman is itself a strawman.

 

[PyramidHead]

Back on topic, strawmen!

The poll:



The New York Times headline:



And just for posterity, this gem that I missed when it happened. National Enquirer? Nope, CNN:

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Wouldn't it be nice if she could squirm out that easily?

Of the strawman you are perpetuating and others continue to deliberately misconstrue? It's a truly despicable tactic, JP. You know it and everyone else does as well, yet you keep repeating it. Why?

Your accusation of a strawman is itself a strawman.

Yawn.

 

[PyramidHead]

And now CNN chimes in on the poll results. This is like fucking clockwork at this point. They simply cannot say the man's name.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Your accusation of a strawman is itself a strawman.

Yawn.

That sums you up nicely.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

And now CNN chimes in on the poll results. This is like fucking clockwork at this point. They simply cannot say the man's name.

View attachment 24674

That one is hilarious. Thou shalt not speaketh the name of the beast.