Moved Medical school admissions and race - was: VP pick

[Rhea]

Female players are almost always called 'girls.' There is nothing inherently wrong with this but calling male high school players 'men' elevates their status or makes them want to become more mature and adult. It increases their self respect. It encourages them to step up to the occasion. Or I assume that's the intention.

I have never heard an adult male refer to other adult males as "boys". I have heard many adult females refer to other adult females as "girls".

Really? Never?
Maybe it's a regional thing, but a guy saying something that starts with "The boys and I are gonna..." wouldn't be the least bit unusual around here.

Generally, like "girls", it's more of a familiarity thing. A person's friends or a church group or a batch of siblings, something like that.
Tom

It is absolutely a familiarity, trust and respect thing, and that is why acquaintances, strangers, bosses, co-workers and others should not use it.

If it's so wrong why do a lot of the female hikers I know use it to refer to themselves and other female hikers?

I call my husband “Sweetie” and “Darling.” He calls me the same.
When I use the same phrase to Loren or TSwizzle, or they to me, it is NOT the same meaning, even if it is the same word.


This goes for a large number of words that one might hear intimates or members of some sub-group say to each other, but which one should not, under any circumstances, consider oneself qualified to use on acquaintances or stranger. Such as a white person calling a Black person they don’t know the n-word, or calling your mother-in-law a bitch, even if you have heard your spouse do it.

 

[Shadowy Man]

.

I have never heard an adult male refer to other adult males as "boys".

You don't recall "the Proud Boys"?

And we're sure they're the type who wouldn't mind if a stranger approached them and referred to them as a "boy", right?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You don’t have to be a person of color to have doctors under treat your pain or other symptoms. Just female. And it’s worse if you are a woman of color. Black and Native American women have the highest rates of maternal mortality.

While I do agree that women's symptoms tend to get dismissed there's the very real issue of what facility. An awful lot of it comes down to the quality of care they have access to, not whether doctors are treating them differently.

Speaking from personal experience, your suppositions are absolutely incorrect. Data does not support your 'guess' either.

I'm agreeing with women getting inferior treatment.

It's the racial part that has been shown to be facility rather than patient.

No, it absolutely HAS NOT been shown that it is the (assuming you mean) lower quality facility rather than the race of the patient or doctor that causes different outcomes for patients. Yes, it is complex, but even controlling for education, socioeconomic class, black patients tend to have much worse medical outcomes compared with white patients. I've mentioned this before but I will do it again: Serena Williams, an extremely wealthy, educated woman with a very deep understanding of her own body nearly died because her doctors would not listen to her.

Sure there are doctors that don't listen. I'm white and male and I've had doctors not listen even when I pointed out the problem.

That doesn't change the fact that the racial disparity in outcomes has been shown to be based on the facility, not the race of the patient.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Female players are almost always called 'girls.' There is nothing inherently wrong with this but calling male high school players 'men' elevates their status or makes them want to become more mature and adult. It increases their self respect. It encourages them to step up to the occasion. Or I assume that's the intention.

I have never heard an adult male refer to other adult males as "boys". I have heard many adult females refer to other adult females as "girls".

Really? Never?
Maybe it's a regional thing, but a guy saying something that starts with "The boys and I are gonna..." wouldn't be the least bit unusual around here.

Generally, like "girls", it's more of a familiarity thing. A person's friends or a church group or a batch of siblings, something like that.
Tom

Such things very often are regional.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If it's racism why does the race of the person making the hiring decision not matter?

Because racism is cultural rather than personal. There are plenty of racist black people, who think that they themselves are the exception, but that black people are inferior as a rule.

So blacks are just as racist against blacks as whites are??

Or is it that the blacker the name the lower the average educational attainment of the people with that name?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

.

I have never heard an adult male refer to other adult males as "boys".

You don't recall "the Proud Boys"?

That's a name of a group, it doesn't mean the people in it refer to each other as "boys".

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If it's so wrong why do a lot of the female hikers I know use it to refer to themselves and other female hikers?

I call my husband “Sweetie” and “Darling.” He calls me the same.
When I use the same phrase to Loren or TSwizzle, or they to me, it is NOT the same meaning, even if it is the same word.


This goes for a large number of words that one might hear intimates or members of some sub-group say to each other, but which one should not, under any circumstances, consider oneself qualified to use on acquaintances or stranger. Such as a white person calling a Black person they don’t know the n-word, or calling your mother-in-law a bitch, even if you have heard your spouse do it.

In this case, the "same subgroup" is simply "female hikers", even if they are strangers.

 

[bilby]

If it's racism why does the race of the person making the hiring decision not matter?

Because racism is cultural rather than personal. There are plenty of racist black people, who think that they themselves are the exception, but that black people are inferior as a rule.

So blacks are just as racist against blacks as whites are??

Where did I say "just as"??

Put the straw down, and address the actual comment I made.

Any response on a discussion board that begins "So <oversimplification>..." or "So <distortion>" is sufficiently likely to be a waste of everyone's valuable time, that I would favour an amendment to the ToU, outlawing any replies beginning with the word "So".

Or is it that the blacker the name the lower the average educational attainment of the people with that name?

Yeah, I am fairly confident that I not only didn't say that, but I also didn't hint at that. As the question arose entirely in your own mind, you probably should ask yourself, rather than asking me.

You never know; If you think openly and honestly about your answer to your question, you might learn something about yourself. Introspection doesn't teach us about the external universe, but that doesn't mean it's totally valueless.

 

[laughing dog]

You don’t have to be a person of color to have doctors under treat your pain or other symptoms. Just female. And it’s worse if you are a woman of color. Black and Native American women have the highest rates of maternal mortality.

While I do agree that women's symptoms tend to get dismissed there's the very real issue of what facility. An awful lot of it comes down to the quality of care they have access to, not whether doctors are treating them differently.

Speaking from personal experience, your suppositions are absolutely incorrect. Data does not support your 'guess' either.

I'm agreeing with women getting inferior treatment.

It's the racial part that has been shown to be facility rather than patient.

No, it absolutely HAS NOT been shown that it is the (assuming you mean) lower quality facility rather than the race of the patient or doctor that causes different outcomes for patients. Yes, it is complex, but even controlling for education, socioeconomic class, black patients tend to have much worse medical outcomes compared with white patients. I've mentioned this before but I will do it again: Serena Williams, an extremely wealthy, educated woman with a very deep understanding of her own body nearly died because her doctors would not listen to her.

Sure there are doctors that don't listen. I'm white and male and I've had doctors not listen even when I pointed out the problem.

Are you familiar with concept that there is variation in any data grouping? If it is the case that symptom or complaints of black patients are taken less seriously than those of white patients as a group, it does not preclude white patients from being taken less seriously.

That doesn't change the fact that the racial disparity in outcomes has been shown to be based on the facility, not the race of the patient.

Provide a link or two.

 

[Toni]

You don’t have to be a person of color to have doctors under treat your pain or other symptoms. Just female. And it’s worse if you are a woman of color. Black and Native American women have the highest rates of maternal mortality.

While I do agree that women's symptoms tend to get dismissed there's the very real issue of what facility. An awful lot of it comes down to the quality of care they have access to, not whether doctors are treating them differently.

Speaking from personal experience, your suppositions are absolutely incorrect. Data does not support your 'guess' either.

I'm agreeing with women getting inferior treatment.

It's the racial part that has been shown to be facility rather than patient.

No, it absolutely HAS NOT been shown that it is the (assuming you mean) lower quality facility rather than the race of the patient or doctor that causes different outcomes for patients. Yes, it is complex, but even controlling for education, socioeconomic class, black patients tend to have much worse medical outcomes compared with white patients. I've mentioned this before but I will do it again: Serena Williams, an extremely wealthy, educated woman with a very deep understanding of her own body nearly died because her doctors would not listen to her.

Sure there are doctors that don't listen. I'm white and male and I've had doctors not listen even when I pointed out the problem.

That doesn't change the fact that the racial disparity in outcomes has been shown to be based on the facility, not the race of the patient.

Data?

 

[ZiprHead]

You don’t have to be a person of color to have doctors under treat your pain or other symptoms. Just female. And it’s worse if you are a woman of color. Black and Native American women have the highest rates of maternal mortality.

While I do agree that women's symptoms tend to get dismissed there's the very real issue of what facility. An awful lot of it comes down to the quality of care they have access to, not whether doctors are treating them differently.

Speaking from personal experience, your suppositions are absolutely incorrect. Data does not support your 'guess' either.

I'm agreeing with women getting inferior treatment.

It's the racial part that has been shown to be facility rather than patient.

No, it absolutely HAS NOT been shown that it is the (assuming you mean) lower quality facility rather than the race of the patient or doctor that causes different outcomes for patients. Yes, it is complex, but even controlling for education, socioeconomic class, black patients tend to have much worse medical outcomes compared with white patients. I've mentioned this before but I will do it again: Serena Williams, an extremely wealthy, educated woman with a very deep understanding of her own body nearly died because her doctors would not listen to her.

Sure there are doctors that don't listen. I'm white and male and I've had doctors not listen even when I pointed out the problem.

That doesn't change the fact that the racial disparity in outcomes has been shown to be based on the facility, not the race of the patient.

If that has been shown I'm sure you should be able to post that.

 

[ZiprHead]

Any response on a discussion board that begins "So <oversimplification>..." or "So <distortion>" is sufficiently likely to be a waste of everyone's valuable time, that I would favour an amendment to the ToU, outlawing any replies beginning with the word "So".

It's called the "Rule Of So." on another board I am on.

 

[bilby]

Any response on a discussion board that begins "So <oversimplification>..." or "So <distortion>" is sufficiently likely to be a waste of everyone's valuable time, that I would favour an amendment to the ToU, outlawing any replies beginning with the word "So".

It's called the "Rule Of So." on another board I am on.

So, you refuse to even consider implementing it here, then???

 

[laughing dog]

.

I have never heard an adult male refer to other adult males as "boys".

You don't recall "the Proud Boys"?

That's a name of a group, it doesn't mean the people in it refer to each other as "boys".

It means they are okay being referred to as boys.

 

[ZiprHead]

Any response on a discussion board that begins "So <oversimplification>..." or "So <distortion>" is sufficiently likely to be a waste of everyone's valuable time, that I would favour an amendment to the ToU, outlawing any replies beginning with the word "So".

It's called the "Rule Of So." on another board I am on.

So, you refuse to even consider implementing it here, then???

It's more of a guideline than a rule.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If it's racism why does the race of the person making the hiring decision not matter?

Because racism is cultural rather than personal. There are plenty of racist black people, who think that they themselves are the exception, but that black people are inferior as a rule.

So blacks are just as racist against blacks as whites are??

Where did I say "just as"??

It's been addressed before. The supposed effect of black names on resumes--has the same effect regardless of the race of the person doing the hiring.

Or is it that the blacker the name the lower the average educational attainment of the people with that name?

Yeah, I am fairly confident that I not only didn't say that, but I also didn't hint at that. As the question arose entirely in your own mind, you probably should ask yourself, rather than asking me.

You never know; If you think openly and honestly about your answer to your question, you might learn something about yourself. Introspection doesn't teach us about the external universe, but that doesn't mean it's totally valueless.

I never said you said that. I'm saying that that's what we see.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You don’t have to be a person of color to have doctors under treat your pain or other symptoms. Just female. And it’s worse if you are a woman of color. Black and Native American women have the highest rates of maternal mortality.

While I do agree that women's symptoms tend to get dismissed there's the very real issue of what facility. An awful lot of it comes down to the quality of care they have access to, not whether doctors are treating them differently.

Speaking from personal experience, your suppositions are absolutely incorrect. Data does not support your 'guess' either.

I'm agreeing with women getting inferior treatment.

It's the racial part that has been shown to be facility rather than patient.

No, it absolutely HAS NOT been shown that it is the (assuming you mean) lower quality facility rather than the race of the patient or doctor that causes different outcomes for patients. Yes, it is complex, but even controlling for education, socioeconomic class, black patients tend to have much worse medical outcomes compared with white patients. I've mentioned this before but I will do it again: Serena Williams, an extremely wealthy, educated woman with a very deep understanding of her own body nearly died because her doctors would not listen to her.

Sure there are doctors that don't listen. I'm white and male and I've had doctors not listen even when I pointed out the problem.

Are you familiar with concept that there is variation in any data grouping? If it is the case that symptom or complaints of black patients are taken less seriously than those of white patients as a group, it does not preclude white patients from being taken less seriously.

That doesn't change the fact that the racial disparity in outcomes has been shown to be based on the facility, not the race of the patient.

Provide a link or two.

Freakonomics.

 

[laughing dog]

You don’t have to be a person of color to have doctors under treat your pain or other symptoms. Just female. And it’s worse if you are a woman of color. Black and Native American women have the highest rates of maternal mortality.

While I do agree that women's symptoms tend to get dismissed there's the very real issue of what facility. An awful lot of it comes down to the quality of care they have access to, not whether doctors are treating them differently.

Speaking from personal experience, your suppositions are absolutely incorrect. Data does not support your 'guess' either.

I'm agreeing with women getting inferior treatment.

It's the racial part that has been shown to be facility rather than patient.

No, it absolutely HAS NOT been shown that it is the (assuming you mean) lower quality facility rather than the race of the patient or doctor that causes different outcomes for patients. Yes, it is complex, but even controlling for education, socioeconomic class, black patients tend to have much worse medical outcomes compared with white patients. I've mentioned this before but I will do it again: Serena Williams, an extremely wealthy, educated woman with a very deep understanding of her own body nearly died because her doctors would not listen to her.

Sure there are doctors that don't listen. I'm white and male and I've had doctors not listen even when I pointed out the problem.

Are you familiar with concept that there is variation in any data grouping? If it is the case that symptom or complaints of black patients are taken less seriously than those of white patients as a group, it does not preclude white patients from being taken less seriously.

That doesn't change the fact that the racial disparity in outcomes has been shown to be based on the facility, not the race of the patient.

Provide a link or two.

Freakonomics.

I am familiar with that book. Which chapter do you think shows that racial disparity is based on the facility, not the race of the patient.