Michael Brown 2: Electric Boogaloo

[another1]

The police are authority figures who are supposed to be -- and expected to be -- part of the solution and not part of the problem. More importantly, they are invested with the power to kill, the power to deny freedom, the power to interfere with people's lives as part of their daily duty. The community assumes that along with this power comes the responsibility to use it for the good of the people they're supposed to be protecting.

Overall I think they're doing a pretty good job. They're only human. We can't afford robocops yet. Humans kill.

When some random homeless guy goes crazy and stabs someone on the bus, there aren't any riots or protests or anger in the streets. You know why? Because "random homeless guy" isn't expected to be on his best behavior; the community doesn't trust him to do anything except be homeless and a little bit crazy, and he's living up to their expectations.

Police get phsychologically cleared before they're handed a gun. They do live up to our expectations. Most random homeless guys do not stab people on buses. It is rare for that to happen, just as it is rare for cops to unjustly kill civilians. I think homeless crazies and American cops are behaving just fine. An occasional poke from a dirty fork and the word "repent" bellowed from the back of the bus is to be expected, just as a human cop (with human emotions) is expected to break occasionally and twitch a finger at an inappropriate time.

When a gang banger shoots into a crowd that contains one of his rivals and accidentally hits a five year old in the face, there aren't ant riots or protests or anger in the streets. You know why? Because "Gang banger" isn't expected to serve his community or use his power (which literally NO ONE wanted him to have in the first place) for the good of the community. He's a criminal, and everyone expects him to ACT like a criminal, and he's living up to their expectations

Yeah, expectations. I get it. But again, cops are human. They have not been programmed. Working in a warzone where everyone hates you takes a toll. Everyday is the day you may die, as a cop. Same for a "Gang banger" I suppose. Expectations. Playing their roles, huh.

Now suppose a POLICEMAN gets pissed off and stabs someone on the bus, or fires into a crowd of people and accidentally hits a five year old in the face. People are going to be pissed; there are going to be protests and anger in the streets. And if the police departments in either case bend over backwards to insist that "the police acted properly" in that situation, you WILL have riots. This is because police officers are NOT supposed to behave like criminals and thugs, and the departments are NOT supposed to excuse that kind of behavior.

Well let us thank God that police don't do stuff like that. I would troll someone really hard (and do my part as a good citizen) if a department didn't punish a cop for shooting a five year old unjustly. Even if the kid had a squirt gun, ya know? But what we're dealing with here is mostly societal scum getting killed. Agree? I'd totally riot (without leaving my chair) if police crossed a certain line, but they are FAR from that line. The drama is over nothing in my opinion. The only drama to me, is the drama itself. The actual cause of the "problem" is unknown to most protestors and people feigning concern on the internet. Why did they get shot? They live in a horrible warzone, where no one is properly educated, everyone is completely brainwashed with sinister materialism and selfish bullshit... I mean WHAT should people actually be protesting? Things are damn sure bad, but it aint the cops man.

This is basic civics: The Community gives its consent to be governed on the condition that the government they consent to will look after their best interests. When the government puts the interests of the police above that of the community, the community will protest; if the interests of the police are AT ODDS with the needs of the community -- as happened in Ferguson -- then the community will inevitably rebel against that government. A "riot" is what happens when that rebellion manifests without any coherent leadership or unity of purpose. When rioters form ranks, select leaders and form an actual plan of attack, it becomes an insurrection.

This is basic pessimism and common sense: These rioters can't even spell insurrection. I highly doubt they can spell (or understand) misdirection, which is what is actually occuring. Their heads are not in the right place. This will keep them at odds with their own needs, making themselves the enemy. They are too easy to influence. Why mention them as if they have any power at all? People are like wet cardboard out there. Totally weak and beaten down. Eaten from the inside out, and aimlessly throwing their hands up in some protest that would be needless if they actually cared about their own lives. The black community is FUCKED, and it isn't because of cops. It may be too late for them. What do you think?

It's a good thing black people are so fucking sloppy that they never bother to plan anything in advance. If they weren't, then the riots in Ferguson could have evolved into something ALOT more dangerous.

100% agreed. Keeping them stupid is probably a good thing, in that sense. Still, I'd like to see some change for them. Some better learning, less attachment to material things, less caustic "entertainment"... yeah they are FUCKED man. Who did the fucking I don't know but they were probably white, and they thought very far into the future when setting American blacks up for the Okey Doke. Or maybe no one is actually responsible. The world may never know. I thank God everyday for not making me black. They are being screwed but they don't know which hole. That has to be frustrating. Wouldn't that be frustrating? Watch them convulse. It is pathetic. I can barely stand reading about the stuff anymore. They should have seen it coming in the early 80's. NOW everything is the fault of the police? Um no thank you I will not encourage that, but I agree that they should be very upset about what is being done to them.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Overall I think they're doing a pretty good job.

Overall, that's entirely true. But there are small dense pockets of society where police corruption and misconduct is both very common and very VISIBLE. That these places tend to be flashpoints of civil unrest doesn't tell you anything except that poor people in L.A. are probably not all that impressed by the courtesy and professionalism of police officers in a Kansas City suburb.

Police get phsychologically cleared before they're handed a gun.

Not always, or at least not to a degree that would screen out people likely to use the gun as a coping mechanism when they are feeling nervous or insecure. This, too, is a problem and causes trust issues with the community when the police department tries to make excuses for the problem rather than owning it.

Yeah, expectations. I get it. But again, cops are human.

More importantly: cops are humans who have been granted the power to kill other humans. When a police officer uses that power recklessly -- or worse, ABUSES that power -- it is a violation of the terms under which he was granted that power in the first place.

People expect cops to BE more than a normal human because they are able to DO more than a normal human. If, on the other hand, they're just as flawed and unpredictable as the average human, then they should NOT be given the power over life and death.

Well let us thank God that police don't do stuff like that.

Except when they DO:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/25/nypd-shooting-bystander-victims-hit-by-police-gunfire.html

"it appears that all nine of the victims were struck either by fragments or by bullets fired by police," Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly told reporters on Saturday at a community event in Harlem.

Or

On Wednesday, a judge ordered the city of Torrance, California, to release the name of the police officer who shot at surfer David Perdue during the February manhunt for former LAPD cop Christopher Dorner, who at the time was out to murder as many of his ex-colleagues as he could. At the time the officer came after Perdue, Dorner had already shot two sheriff’s deputies, killing one, and gunned down the daughter of a LAPD officer and her boyfriend.

Fearful that Dorner might go after a local LA police official next, Torrance cops pulled over Perdue on February 7, asked him a few questions, then let him drive away. A few seconds later a second cop car rammed his truck, and an unnamed officer fired three shots, all of which (thankfully) missed. Perdue’s attorney also alleges that he was dragged from his vehicle afterwards. Dorner, by the way, was black and Perdue is white.

The State goes out of its way to protect police officers from punishment when they make an error in judgement or a "heat of the moment" decision that get somebody killed. Civilians don't like it when people who accidentally kill them don't face any sort of punishment for it, so when that happens, they tend to make a fuss.

I thank God everyday for not making me black.

I thank him for that too. The world already has an abundance of breathtakingly stupid black people, adding YOU to the population wouldn't do us any favors.

 

[another1]

"All nine people wounded during a dramatic confrontation between police and a gunmann outside the Empire State Building". Bullets to fly in crazy directions. We can't afford smartbullets yet. Nobody intentionally hurt the people in the crowd except the gunman. That link didn't make your intended point, but please understand I know what you think.

"at the time was out to murder as many of his ex-colleagues" means dangerous. Danger. Cops deal with that as often as Wendy's workers make chicken sammiches. Do they drop a piece of lettuce now and again? Sure, we all make mistakes. When danger lurks, cops come running. Sometimes they bust their asses, because that is what happens sometimes when you run.

I agree with you, that OVERALL things are Okay. Cops are Okay. "Flashpoints of civil unrest" are a thing. Who could do WHAT... to change that? None of that has changed my opinion but I appreciate your efforts to explain how you feel about this. I know how you feel. I really do.

"The world already has an abundance of breathtakingly stupid black people" would sound like a racist thing to say (to some). I'm glad you at least understand that it isn't. Most of the problem is exactly what you said. They're stupid not because of genes. They're not less than anyone else. They're idiots because of the situation they're in. Terrible education and bad attitudes. Kinda like a sickness I guess. Best thing to do would be separate them, if you want to become rational for a moment. Displace them. The flashpoints of civil unrest would exist only online, and nobody would be complaining, if you could implement a huge relocation for these poor, restless and mentally raped people. That is a huge thing to accomplish and expect resistance. Being rational always hurts someone's feelings.

Cops don't know how to control the current situation because too many are situated in small areas. Oh, and they don't have Fathers. And their idols are criminally materialistic. They are fed some really negative things, very early in life. And I could go on and on about what is happening to poor blacks. Big mess. "Entertainment" is gravely underestimated, when calculating the cause of this situation. So much negativity, materialism, sexism, selfishness, self destructiveness... Some stuff is gonna break here and there.

Cops aren't crossing any lines that I see. They're just fine, considering the situation. They're dealing with the chaos pretty well. Ultimately the situation is NOT cops, and I think you know that.

 

[ZiprHead]

Was this guy screened?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

"Flashpoints of civil unrest" are a thing. Who could do WHAT... to change that?

There are lots of things that could be done, but most of them require police officers to swallow their pride and understand that their authority is not absolute nor should they expect submissive behavior from the people they interact with as a pre-requisite for being treated fairly; it is the police officer's duty to establish honor and civility, not merely to punish others for lacking it. And that's just for STARTERS.

I like to point to the Richmond PD as an example of an organization that said "Fuck that noise" and decided to enforce peace between its officers and its community. ALOT of cops had to eat crow for a long time for that to happen; the police chief had to show himself to be the Bigger Man and make an effort for reconciliation with a community that had, in the end, pretty legitimate reasons not to trust the police. The result is that social strife between police officers and Richmond's poor and black communities never rises above a few harsh words every now and then and is nowhere near the simmering anxiety that exists in Ferguson or L.A. or even in Chicago.

The police, whether they like it or not, are the ones who have to be responsible for solving that problem because the police are the people with the power. When the powerful are in conflict with the powerless, it is up to the powerful to resolve the problem.

Best thing to do would be separate them, if you want to become rational for a moment. Displace them.

Depending on what you mean by "displace," but to the extent that the best thing to do would be to separate them FROM EACH OTHER, that's certainly not wrong. It's the basic problem of ghettos: if you concentrate enough of the same kind of people together, their behaviors reinforce each other and amplify their strongest qualities. So put a lot of stupid people together in one place, then stupidity tends to proliferate. Put a lot of angry people together in one place, then anger tends to proliferate. Put enough corrupt and greedy people together in one place, corruption and greed proliferates. Again, that's human nature: people tend to live up to the expectations of those around them.

Police departments have this exact same problem. Hire enough cops who think that any person they interact with is a potential enemy until they prove otherwise, you'll get lot of confrontational, trigger-happy cops. Hire a whole department full of cops who think racial slurs and vindictiveness are perfectly okay, you'll see a proliferation of that behavior in their policing. Hire a bunch of cops who think they have a civic duty to preserve the peace and that the lives of the civilians around them are more important even than their own lives, then virtuous and responsible policing tends to be the result.

Oh, and they don't have Fathers. And their idols are criminally materialistic. They are fed some really negative things, very early in life.

And you were doing SO well up to this point...

Take a walk through the ghetto. Get to know a few people. Once they realize you're not there to buy drugs, they'll basically ignore you; if you need an ice breaker, tell them you're doing a DHS or public works survey for infrastructure improvements. They'll probably tell you their life stories.

Try it. You might learn something.

Cops aren't crossing any lines that I see.

That's because they never cross YOUR lines. I suspect you'll be even more pissed off than the people of Ferguson if and when that actually happens.

 

[KeepTalking]

This is a small community I guess, right? Where this happened? Sorry for not being up on that.

ETA: Your point about it being a small town is a good one. It was small enough for lots of people to have had personal encounters with Officer Wilson. I wonder what sort of reputation he had among the general public. Derec is good at digging up dirt. Perhaps he knows.

FYI, I live in St. Louis. Ferguson is not what you would call a "small community". It is a suburb of St. Louis in an area referred to as North County. You will never notice, when travelling through St. Louis, as you leave the city and enter the county, it is one big urban sprawl made up of dozens of municipalities.

Oh God. I bet everybody freaked out the other night when a little kid accidentally got shot by the black, Ferguson heroin dealer, but turns out it wasn't a cop responsible, so everything turned out Okay. Whew, I bet it was almost a tragedy.

WTF are you talking about? I have not heard of this shooting to which you refer, and I watch the local news every day, link to the news article, please. Regardless, I would imagine that the reason no one freaked out would be because the suspect was immediately arrested, and is currently sitting in jail. This did not happen with Wilson, in fact, he was not charged with anything because of the rigged grand jury.

 

[another1]

Eddie that is too much to read, so I'm just going to type for a while. I'm guessing you haven't changed your mind but I will read it later anyway. Keep Talking you said it perfectly.

"Regardless, I would imagine that the reason no one freaked out would be because the suspect was immediately arrested, and is currently sitting in jail."

That is the case 99% of the time. The boogey man you always call when shit goes wrong.

Makes no sense to me to go on and on about it. Problems solve themselves and provide sufficient entertainment for our fear addicted minds. The images and videos are enough for me. I've had my fill of discussing it. I've met my quota. I'm not an Energizer bunny running on fear and displaced concern for the most ignorant of us in society. They will calm down or they will be introduced the Military.

If they want to destroy their own communities while dying off, concrete is cheap. We'll build a skate park where their crackhouses used to be. Then the rational blacks can stop pretending this is right, and come out of their holes. Smart black people aren't even stressing this, they just say what is necessary to fit in. It is all an act if you ask me, and if it isn't - read a book about history and then do some math. Sources say poor people like drama and the cops are just props. It would be something else, if not cops, because the communities and mindsets of these people... screwed. Murder always happens. Too much of it and something is bound to implode, so whatever.

Have you seen black on black murder statistics? I've had to double take when seeing this stuff... since forcing myself to start looking. There is something horrible and it seriously isn't police. Please, for the love of God, look up those numbers. God man it is almost like they're cursed. I feel that my attitude is that of most Americans'. I think you should agree. They're cursed. Please go on with whatever you were doing.

 

[Derec]

Just like with Michael Brown, the big problem with #BLM is that they tend to pick thugs as their causes célèbres. It seems that the likelihood of widespread and/or violent protest is directly correlated how undeserving the subject of these protests was.

Take the recent case of Quanice Hayes. He robbed a man sleeping in his car off his food stamp card. When police caught upo with him, he still had his gun (a replica, but realistic enough to commit armed robbery) and got shot. Now that a grand jury has (rightly) declined to indict there are protests in Portland, including in front of mayor's house. His mother is also calling it an "execution". She should have instead taught him not to rob people at gunpoint.

If #BLM restricted their antics to the very few cases where police shootings are indeed unjustified, they'd have a much better case.
And if they showed the same interest when blacks are killed by other blacks as they do when they are killed by white civilians or police of any color, that'd be even better.

(and yes, that is photoshopped)

 

[repoman]

The new case of a 21 year old violent mad dog of a white woman who was run over by a police car is pretty intense.



Not sure why she was so violent, but at any rate she was very dangerous.

Standard hypothetical on what would be the result of her being black instead of white. Who knows?

 

[laughing dog]

Take the recent case of Quanice Hayes. He robbed a man sleeping in his car off his food stamp card. When police caught upo with him, he still had his gun (a replica, but realistic enough to commit armed robbery) and got shot. Now that a grand jury has (rightly) declined to indict there are protests in Portland, including in front of mayor's house. His mother is also calling it an "execution". She should have instead taught him not to rob people at gunpoint.

At least it is understandable why she is upset about the death of her son. Maybe she is also upset that he did not remember her lessons about not robbing people.

On the other hand, it is not understandable why anyone would feel the need to make insulting insinuations about a grieving parent.

 

[LordKiran]

The new case of a 21 year old violent mad dog of a white woman who was run over by a police car is pretty intense.



Not sure why she was so violent, but at any rate she was very dangerous.

Standard hypothetical on what would be the result of her being black instead of white. Who knows?

I almost want to say that once she starts shooting all bets are off, though it cannot possibly be standard procedure to run a suspect down with your police cruiser. If it doesn't kill her, the injuries sustained would surely be worse than from a bullet.

- - - Updated - - -

Take the recent case of Quanice Hayes. He robbed a man sleeping in his car off his food stamp card. When police caught upo with him, he still had his gun (a replica, but realistic enough to commit armed robbery) and got shot. Now that a grand jury has (rightly) declined to indict there are protests in Portland, including in front of mayor's house. His mother is also calling it an "execution". She should have instead taught him not to rob people at gunpoint.

At least it is understandable why she is upset about the death of her son. Maybe she is also upset that he did not remember her lessons about not robbing people.

On the other hand, it is not understandable why anyone would feel the need to make insulting insinuations about a grieving parent.

On the other-other hand, she's a hood thug so who cares? Not Derec, that's who.

 

[another1]

I read it Eddie. Told you I would. My response you probably predicted but here you go.

like to point to the Richmond PD as an example of an organization that said "Fuck that noise" and decided to enforce peace between its officers and its community.

Which Richmond? I've lived in an 80% black Richmond. Small campus Oreo'd in the middle. More money in the tiny fan of students than the rest of the city combined. When I was there, police would drive by a hundred crack dealers just to bust one student for a bag of POT, because that's where the money was. Simple math. Bust a crack dealer and you pay to feet it for a year. OR bust a student on campus and get paid a couple thousand for the fine + probation fees for a couple years. They had it all backwards when I was there. Mayhaps they changed since the 90's. We talkin about racetrack town? Virginia's Richmond? What happened there? Scared to look at anymore news. More uninterested than scared, but yeah.

The police, whether they like it or not, are the ones who have to be responsible for solving that problem because the police are the people with the power. When the powerful are in conflict with the powerless, it is up to the powerful to resolve the problem.

Yeah I know, and I feel things go pretty smoothly. There are bumps in the road, sure, but still drivable. It is more of a case like... where NOT to drive.

If you are black and dead because a cop shot you, that is because life happens. Ask the nasty white girl in that video and she'll tell you. She's white and just as dead? Did she die? White and dead is so much more common, but yet to matter quite as much. Cops up my way will bump you with their cars, that is a common move - so jumping onto the hood is usually a better idea than flashing a gun, turning your head and waiting to be mangled. Cars can kill you. Got to be careful around them when you're running with a gun after committing a serious crime. Oh man if I could only tell you the things I have seen cops and corrections officers do. But I've seen civilians do the same. I would get mad at the programmers of robocops, if robocops were running around killing criminals unjustly. I can't get mad at human cops. Look at their job. And their pay. And the "people" they have to corral everyday. It would drive any cop mad. Ever wonder why it is in these concentrated areas of scum, that all of this happens? Cops can't wash it off when they get home from work. They become just as desperate and animalistic as the fiends they're at war with. They can't help it.

the best thing to do would be to separate them FROM EACH OTHER, that's certainly not wrong

I totally agree and since most of these "victims" are probably on HUD, how hard would it be to spread things out a bit? The Government owns their lives already, no matter how nice their shoes are.

if you concentrate enough of the same kind of people together, their behaviors reinforce each other and amplify their strongest qualities

Dear God yes. "Again, that's human nature: people tend to live up to the expectations of those around them". Yes and so do cops. Cops essentially live in the same ghetto, what, 12hrs a day? And a lot of that is inside a car, which would drive anyone batty. They develop the same mentality. Same desperation. Surviving the day of working for little money and risking your LIFE to protect people (half of whom aspire to nothing) and just hoping you can make it hope to hug your wife and give your kids some candy bars or whatever. That is so pathetic but not in an insulting way. I feel worse for cops than anyone, when it comes to this subject.

Police departments have this exact same problem. Hire enough cops who think that any person they interact with is a potential enemy until they prove otherwise, you'll get lot of confrontational, trigger-happy cops.

Oh, I hadn't read that paragraph yet. We agree about that.

Hire a whole department full of cops who think racial slurs and vindictiveness are perfectly okay, you'll see a proliferation of that behavior in their policing.

Yeah, well I'm not above relocating cops. Whatever shaves the problem down. Would be easier to do it with the potential criminals in these public housing hotspots, since they're Government property already. Off duty, cops are collectively pretty contributive, community-wise and all. Yeah, makes sense.

Hire a bunch of cops who think they have a civic duty to preserve the peace and that the lives of the civilians around them are more important even than their own lives, then virtuous and responsible policing tends to be the result.

Right, and years of psychological testing, specialized training (Ideally a lot of Military service), extensive background checks, fluffy animal therapy, education in what the law actually is.... for every cop in the county? That would cost more money than "the money people" can print. The money people are the actual problem, right? They don't print it fast enough, so everything is half-assed? That goes for everything man. Put the money into education for criminals and cops both, and start before they can walk? But yea, that is more long term and too insanely idealistic to mention, other than in a joke.

Immediate solution is probably relocating, but where? Alaska? Pretty big country we have here, so they could be spread pretty thinly I suppose. No need to make them feel like they're being punished for being victims of inadequate education and outright brainwashing from sick and relentless entertainment idols.

Take a walk through the ghetto. Get to know a few people. Once they realize you're not there to buy drugs, they'll basically ignore you; if you need an ice breaker, tell them you're doing a DHS or public works survey for infrastructure improvements. They'll probably tell you their life stories.

Most of my adult life has been trailer parks, fringes of ghettos and one barrio (so far). I have a pretty good picture of all that. That is why I care to speak up. It has been painful to watch. People are people, and I'll say the best people I've met are poor and uneducated. Frustrates me because there is a trap out there, and it is very easy to fall into. That may be the most important aspect of whatever problem we're talking about now. It is too easy to be nothing. They'll even pay you to do it, and they'll pay even MORE if you spawn a few more humans to live the same hell. "Same old cycle" type of thing. Who benefits from this? Things are suspicious.

That's because they never cross YOUR lines. I suspect you'll be even more pissed off than the people of Ferguson if and when that actually happens.

Oh man. They have definitely come close to my line. Dude I know named Elvis. He lost his sense of smell from a head injury the cops gifted him. I saw them beat him for no reason, other than looking like a total piece of shit and verbally insulting them. Bad idea. And I myself have had a lot of interesting encounters with police. The ones in this town are straight but I can't go anywhere else without being unfairly profiled and stalked. I mean seriously Eddie I'm not a wealthy man and my life has been totally pathetic. Things I've seen cops driven to do... Good God. But they're cops and they'll come if I need em'. They will get on their knees and do CPR if I'm dying. I'm way more likely to be SAVED by a cop than killed by one. Isn't everyone?

WTF are you talking about? I have not heard of this shooting to which you refer

KT I'm sure the shooting has happened since I mentioned it. I was just making a general point. "it wasn't a cop responsible, so everything turned out Okay" = bad sarcasm.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I almost want to say that once she starts shooting all bets are off, though it cannot possibly be standard procedure to run a suspect down with your police cruiser. If it doesn't kill her, the injuries sustained would surely be worse than from a bullet.

Lethal force is lethal force. If it's legal to shoot it's also legal to run them over. It's not the usual procedure because the police are rarely in a position that a car is a better choice of weapon than a gun but in a situation like that it makes sense. He can stop her faster with the gas pedal than with his gun, it was the right choice.

 

[another1]

For sure. He should have tried to bump her a few yards but he went with the lethal option because she could have turned around in the air and shot him in slow motion. Matrix-style. That was probably what he was picturing in his head at the time. Or maybe he was picturing his widowed wife and the kids he'd be leaving behind because he cut some worthless crackhead some slack. Good move though. One more down.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Mayhaps they changed since the 90's.

They did. The lax policing in the ghetto was part of the reason for it. There were voices that wanted to do the "Broken windows/tough on crime" thing but the police superintendent at the time said "Fuck that" and went the community policing/neighborhood watch partner route. The results were fairly impressive.

Ever wonder why it is in these concentrated areas of scum, that all of this happens? Cops can't wash it off when they get home from work. They become just as desperate and animalistic as the fiends they're at war with. They can't help it.

Some of them can. In fact, MANY of them can.

The ones that can't need to take off the uniform and find another line of work and leave that job for the people who CAN handle it without deluding themselves into thinking they're "at war" with anyone.

I totally agree and since most of these "victims" are probably on HUD

They're not.

how hard would it be to spread things out a bit?

There we have problems like urban blight and gentrification which are contributors to the problem. That's a whole different can of worms, because there's so much money and politics involved in urban development. In Chicago, it's all "friend of a friend's cousin knows the mayor" and those projects get greenlit and/or subsidized with no thought to what happens next. So the ghetto is basically being squeezed down and slowly moved south like a giant angry glacier of poverty, scouring the city as it goes decade by decade.

There's a fucking California Pizza Kitchen where Cabrini Green used to be.

Take a walk through the ghetto. Get to know a few people. Once they realize you're not there to buy drugs, they'll basically ignore you; if you need an ice breaker, tell them you're doing a DHS or public works survey for infrastructure improvements. They'll probably tell you their life stories.

Most of my adult life has been trailer parks, fringes of ghettos and one barrio (so far). I have a pretty good picture of all that. That is why I care to speak up. It has been painful to watch. People are people, and I'll say the best people I've met are poor and uneducated. Frustrates me because there is a trap out there, and it is very easy to fall into. That may be the most important aspect of whatever problem we're talking about now...

Doing fine right up until this point:

It is too easy to be nothing. They'll even pay you to do it, and they'll pay even MORE if you spawn a few more humans to live the same hell. "Same old cycle" type of thing. Who benefits from this? Things are suspicious.

Sorry, but that's bullshit, and I'm kind of amazed you fell for that.

It's actually easier to be a thug than it is to be nothing. People live in the ghetto can (and do) work their asses off their whole lives and still be nothing. You can work 60 hours a week on minimum wage or slightly above it and still be flat broke every day of your life: no savings, no prospects, no future. But if you have a basement with good ventilation and a guy with some seeds, you ca start a marijuana plant for some extra money; if you know someone who runs with a crew, you can make a shitload of extra money selling cocaine to college kids. You can steal cars and fence the parts, you can scam people, shake people down for money, or if you're twisted enough, kill people on a hired hit.

The truth is, some of the most ambitious and talented people in the ghetto actually become career criminals simply for lack of a better option. Simply living where they do and being who they are pretty much bars them from using their skills in a more socially acceptable line of work that would compensate them tot he full value of their talents, and with that first or second arrest for some petty possession charge or "accepting stolen goods," plus "resisting arrest" and "disorderly conduct" on top of it, they know they'll never EVER get hired as anything more meaningful than a dishwasher repairman.

The degeneracy in the ghetto isn't laziness or dependence on welfare; if you're too lazy to get a real job, you're definitely too lazy to join a gang, steal and rob and sell drugs.
The degeneracy is the the predictable result of the concentration of poverty on a population that has no legitimate way out of it. A lot of very smart and talented people are weighing their options between "Spend eight years studying and going to school to get a degree in a field where I have no connections and no job prospects and hope to God that somebody out there will be nice enough to give me a break" and "Join a gang, make a few thousand dollars hustling and then get the fuck out before somebody shoots me." IOW it's the choice between "beg your way out" and "shoot your way out." Both choices are widely represented, but only the latter makes headlines.

 

[LordKiran]

For sure. He should have tried to bump her a few yards but he went with the lethal option because she could have turned around in the air and shot him in slow motion. Matrix-style. That was probably what he was picturing in his head at the time. Or maybe he was picturing his widowed wife and the kids he'd be leaving behind because he cut some worthless crackhead some slack. Good move though. One more down.

My guess is it had something to do with the schoolyard behind her. In any case that's a horrible way to view people.

 

[Underseer]

So there is this wannabe documentary filmmaker named Jason Pollock. No idea if he is related to Jackson Pollock, but I know he is a protege of Michael Moore.
Anyway, Jason made a movie about Michael Brown/Ferguson called "Stranger Fruit" (so you know it's not going to be unbiased lol) that makes some rather bizarre claims based on a video from the night before the "Gentle Giant" got killed:
- Michael Brown is a friendly neighborhood drug dealer who on that night sold the Ferguson Market clerk some marijuana in a baggie
- For some reason Brown decided to take his payment in Swisher Sweets rather than money
- For some reason he decided not to take the "payment" with him at the time
- He apparently came back to collect the "payment" but the clerk did not give it to him (probably not the same clerk who worked graveyard shift so I do not see why he would be expected to know of, much less honor, the supposed illicit deal Brown made the previous night) so he grabbed some and pushed the owner away

Of course, even if we take Pollock's tortured interpretation at face value, it becomes a drug deal with a dispute rather than a regular robbery. I do not see how that's any better. And the reason Wilson shot Brown is still that he attacked him and tried to take his gun away. This would not change anything about the shooting or the alt-facts of "hands up don't shoot".

But it looks like what Pollock is peddling is straight-up bullshit, with the video deceptively edited to make Pollock's point.
Ferguson film fallout: Video footage released, officer injured, charges for trying to set police car on fire

So the clerk did not want to give him Swisher Sweets in exchange for marijuana. He decided to put them back this time, but half a day later he return to steal them. Weird.
Of course, the wild claims were meant and succeeded to drive anger among the #BLM types.

About 100 people converged outside the market Sunday night. A Bellefontaine Neighbors man was charged Monday with trying to light a St. Louis County police car on fire during a protest outside the Ferguson Market.
Charges also were expected against a woman who allegedly punched a Ferguson police officer in the face, breaking his nose.
Several gunshots were fired nearby shortly before midnight.
In the first case, police say Henry L. Stokes, 45, of the 1500 block of Haviland Drive, was charged with felony counts of attempting to cause catastrophe and resisting arrest. Bail was set at $25,000.
During the protest, police say Stokes stuffed a napkin in the gas tank opening of a St. Louis County police car and tried to ignite it with a cigarette lighter.
Officers tried to stop him, chased him and arrested him.
Also Sunday, a woman punched a Ferguson police officer in the face and broke his nose during the protest.
Chief Delrish Moss said the officer was trying to arrest a man on the parking lot around 10 p.m.
Moss said he was unsure what led the officer to try to arrest the man during the protest, but that both the man and his girlfriend are in custody and police plan to apply for warrants against them Monday
The man was arrested on suspicion of trespassing, resisting arrest and possession of a controlled substance. The woman was arrested on suspicion of trespassing, resisting arrest and assault on a law enforcement officer, police said.

Nice!

So this video is much ado about nothing and the only thing it has led to and will ever lead to is to stir some more shit up in Ferguson. I suspect that's exactly what Pollock intended.

P.S.: Why has this stupid "pants down" trend not died down yet?

Even if this is true (and that is highly questionable), then of course you won't mind if we do the same thing to white people and judge you by the violent ones?

What collective punishment should all white people face for all the racism-motivated violence we've been seeing from large numbers of white people recently? Should we ban immigration from white nations? Should we consider mass deportation? Mass incarceration? What collective punishment should all white people face?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

For sure. He should have tried to bump her a few yards but he went with the lethal option because she could have turned around in the air and shot him in slow motion. Matrix-style. That was probably what he was picturing in his head at the time. Or maybe he was picturing his widowed wife and the kids he'd be leaving behind because he cut some worthless crackhead some slack. Good move though. One more down.

1) Bumping her like that would mean slowing down--increasing the risk of getting shot.

2) Knocking her down wouldn't disarm her--she could still shoot.

Furthermore, doing so would almost certainly at a minimum mean they were off the force, perhaps in jail. The thing is if you're using half-assed force like that you're showing you don't consider the threat real--but in that case you shouldn't be using force at all. Following your strategy either means you're an idiot or that you are guilty of aggravated assault.

 

[another1]

My guess is it had something to do with the schoolyard behind her

Yeah I didn't even notice the schoolyard there. Whoa he was so in the right. I mean bumping a person, he'd have to speed up and stop abrupt-like, to do that. He was already really close when he saw the gun, and at that point he would have trouble regaining speed. Any footage of how they got her out? Did he just back up and dump his spit cup while finishing her off? Did he stay still and hide in his car because those darn crackheads don't die so easily? I'd like to know what happened after that. School zone, my goodness.

1) Bumping her like that would mean slowing down--increasing the risk of getting shot.

2) Knocking her down wouldn't disarm her--she could still shoot.

Would he have to slow down or speed up? And naw she didn't have a supervillain look to her. She wasn't going to do anything while flying through the air. I mean he'd have to be a stuntman to bump her in the first place. I don't know why you brought up the possibility. He'd need a lot of practice teasing people with his big evil police car to develop that skill.

Following your strategy either means you're an idiot or that you are guilty of aggravated assault.

What strategy would you suggest? Maybe he could whip the car around, roll out, draw his gun and fire simultaneously and hit her gun hand? Oh wait school zone, no go on that. I think we agreed she's dead and the world is a safer place. But not really because two more crackheads have magically spawned. They never stop.

Eddie I'll read that. There may be a point to actually argue about

 

[Derec]

Even if this is true (and that is highly questionable),

Even if what is true? You quoted my whole post.

then of course you won't mind if we do the same thing to white people and judge you by the violent ones?

Nowhere in that post (or elsewhere) did I suggest that all black people be judged by the violent ones, so your whole post is based on a faulty assumption.

What collective punishment should all white people face for all the racism-motivated violence we've been seeing from large numbers of white people recently?

Of course there should not be any collective punishment, but even your premise is flawed. Where do you see "large numbers of white people" engaging is "racism-motivated violence"?recently?
And besides, racism-motivated violence is not a monopoly of white people. Even if MSM will mostly focus on white racism and largely ignore racism by members of other races.