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Michael Brown Shooting and Aftermath

Yeah. Peaceful protest. Like when they looted and torched that QuickTrip. :rolleyes:
But even if it remains peaceful, why protest at all those places that have nothing to do with the case? Seems counterproductive to me - you will just annoy people that want to visit the museum or that work at Anheuser-Busch.
who is "they" and how are "they" related to the protesters, and how do you know that?
"They" are hooligans. "They" displayed disturbing, inappropriate, and illegal behavior. "They" aren't all blacks/protestors. "They" is quite a bit of a minority. "They" didn't really give a flip about Michael Brown, "They" just wanted to destroy stuff. I'm not certain why "They" is being categorized with the entire protesting group.
 
It's still a bad idea to annoy people who have nothing to do with the case just because their location is "high visibility" with "easy access". It's only going to drive people into opposition to the protesters' cause, especially if there is violence, as is likely, and to which the protesters certainly have no constitutional right to.

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So any opinion on how ugly things could get considering the KKK's threat of lethal force for 'self defense'?
Yes, especially if they run into New Black Panthers.
It is fascinating to see you immediately jump to the worse case scenario for the protesters but you are unable to acknowledge a possible worse case scenario for Michael Brown (i.e. that he did not merit a killing).
 
It is fascinating to see you immediately jump to the worse case scenario for the protesters but you are unable to acknowledge a possible worse case scenario for Michael Brown (i.e. that he did not merit a killing).

Or the possibility of a worse case scenario for the KKK, who are threatening lethal force, and are undeniably racists.
 
Or the possibility of a worse case scenario for the KKK, who are threatening lethal force, and are undeniably racists.
Yes they have threatened lethal force and it is a concern, as is Michael Brown supporters offering bounties on Officer Wilson.
 
It is fascinating to see you immediately jump to the worse case scenario for the protesters
Worse than what? I am considering the worst case scenario because previous Ferguson protests resulted in violence, rioting and looting. Also because of history of violent riots, most notoriously the LA Riots of 1992.

but you are unable to acknowledge a possible worse case scenario for Michael Brown (i.e. that he did not merit a killing).
I did acknowledge that possibility earlier in the discussion. However, the prosecution would have to prove that scenario beyond a reasonable doubt to secure a conviction. Even to get an indictment mere possibility is not enough. Unfortunately political expediency and desire to avoid riots might be.
 
Also because of history of violent riots, most notoriously the LA Riots of 1992.

I'm kind of curious how you relate the riots in another city which took place a generation ago with the current situation in Ferguson. Please continue on.
 
Worse than what? I am considering the worst case scenario because previous Ferguson protests resulted in violence, rioting and looting. Also because of history of violent riots, most notoriously the LA Riots of 1992.
The St. Louis area does not have a history of racially motivated riots.
I did acknowledge that possibility earlier in the discussion. However, the prosecution would have to prove that scenario beyond a reasonable doubt to secure a conviction. Even to get an indictment mere possibility is not enough. Unfortunately political expediency and desire to avoid riots might be.
Here you go again - assuming the worst in terms of motivations and/or scenario. Thanks for proving my point.
 
Worse than what? I am considering the worst case scenario because previous Ferguson protests resulted in violence, rioting and looting. Also because of history of violent riots, most notoriously the LA Riots of 1992.
You mean that riot when there was clear video evidence of a beat down on a black man and the police were found not guilty? Didn't the Ferguson issues start up after the Police unleashed '60s level negro containment methods?

but you are unable to acknowledge a possible worse case scenario for Michael Brown (i.e. that he did not merit a killing).
I did acknowledge that possibility earlier in the discussion. However, the prosecution would have to prove that scenario beyond a reasonable doubt to secure a conviction. Even to get an indictment mere possibility is not enough. Unfortunately political expediency and desire to avoid riots might be.
It is a shame that the local yokel police fucked up this whole thing from the beginning to burn away any attempt to have a sense of trust with the African American community. Even after they were taken off their own case, they managed to cut the legs out from under a State Highway Patrol officer that had managed to get the situation in Ferguson under control.

While the acts of a minority of hooligans was inappropriate and unethical, the Ferguson Police hold quite a bit of baggage for stoking the fires .
 
Or the possibility of a worse case scenario for the KKK, who are threatening lethal force, and are undeniably racists.
Yes they have threatened lethal force and it is a concern, as is Michael Brown supporters offering bounties on Officer Wilson.
$5,000 bounty? Jebus! That's all?!

Nothing like a bunch jackass radicals stirring the pot.

Also, why is it Michael Brown supporters? I don't support assaulting police officers (presuming it happened) or stealing from stores. I do support reasonable restraints on violent means by the Police, which include not killing someone if it isn't entirely necessary.
 
Also, why is it Michael Brown supporters? I don't support assaulting police officers (presuming it happened) or stealing from stores. I do support reasonable restraints on violent means by the Police, which include not killing someone if it isn't entirely necessary.

It's "Michael Brown supporters" because it's easier to win a strawman argument than it is to debate when it's appropriate to use lethal force, or how police officers are expected to perform their duties, or whether a cop can refuse to give an official account of his action when he shoots someone dead, or how police and city officials should handle public protests, or what limits there might be on the exercise of Constitutional rights of free speech, free assembly, and the right to petition government, etc.

It's like when Creationists call people Darwinists and then attack Charles Darwin on a personal level. It drags the conversation away from the use of reason to evaluate competing claims and onto offering personal opinions of the character of others.
 
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Ferguson Grand Juror Suing Prosecutor For Throwing Darren Wilson Case, Putting Mike Brown On Trial

A massive 58-point lawsuit has just been filed by a juror in Darren Wilson case against St. Louis prosecutor Bob McCulloch. The suit alleges that the prosecutor deliberately “botched” the case against Officer Darren Wilson and chose instead to put Mike Brown – the officer’s victim – on trial.

The suit is an effort for the juror to speak freely and openly about what happened during the Darren Wilson grand jury deliberations. If you thought that the decision not to indict Officer Wilson was fair, this grand jury member says you should think again: there is a lot that you haven’t been told about what went on, and they want to be able to legally tell you about it.

The juror is suing St. Louis County Prosecutor Bob McCulloch for that legal right, adding that McCulloch mischaracterized the proceedings through and through and presented a “muddled” case, according to St. Louis Public Radio.

In a lawsuit (pdf) that was filed Monday morning, the unnamed juror, who was described as “Grand Juror Doe”, alleged that McCulloch’s statements made to the press after the announcement of the refusal to indict, were completely inaccurate and need to be addressed. But since the law currently prohibits the juror from speaking about what went on in the deliberation process and behind closed doors, that is not something they can do as of yet.

The lawsuit states that in the juror’s “view, the current information available about the grand jurors’ views is not entirely accurate — especially the implication that all grand jurors believed that there was no support for any charges. Moreover, the public characterization of the grand jurors’ view of witnesses and evidence does not accord with [Doe]’s own.”

The juror notes a double standard that McCulloch has been permitted to speak at length about the grand jury’s deliberations – even making false claims about the jurors, what they said, thought and decided – even though he was not present and these alleged statements he is making claims about were not recorded by a court reporter.

Well, good for that juror. I would be surprised if the case advances, as the legal system is loathe to enforce the rules on one of their own.
 
There is an interesting free speech question involved there, so I wouldn't be so sure the case won't proceed. A lot will depend on the staying power of Juror Doe
 
Well, good for that juror. I would be surprised if the case advances, as the legal system is loathe to enforce the rules on one of their own.

I'm glad this is happening. Releasing the gag order should be good for society. And the suit itself circumvents the gag order partially, so, well played. Well played.
 
There is an interesting free speech question involved there, so I wouldn't be so sure the case won't proceed. A lot will depend on the staying power of Juror Doe

Is there any precedent to allowing grand jurors to speak about their cases?
As to the claim that McCulloch misrepresented the grand jurors, I did not get the impression that the jurors were unanimous so I do not see where Doe is getting that complaint anyway.
As to the claim that McCulloch threw the case, even if it were true where does Doe get standing to sue with regard to that. He is in no way damaged by it. In any case, prosecutors enjoy wide discretion and McCulloch didn't even have to convene a grand jury to begin with - he could have simply declined to prosecute.
As to the common objection that "X was on trial", judging any case involves examining all relevant details. If a police officer shoots a perp, what the perp did is highly relevant. Should McCulloch not have mentioned that for example Brown robbed a store just minutes before the confrontation with the police?
All in all, a weird lawsuit and I do not think Doe has a leg to stand on.
 
Some of what the juror alleges is obvious -
The juror is suing St. Louis County Prosecutor Bob McCulloch for that legal right, adding that McCulloch mischaracterized the proceedings through and through and presented a “muddled” case, according to St. Louis Public Radio.
. But it would be good to have more details about his "incompetence".
 
And...

Bar Complaint Filed Against McCulloch


Griffin has said initial reports from the Ferguson police chief that Darren Wilson did not know Michael Brown was suspected in an earlier convenience store robbery were changed in testimony before the grand jury, and she believes that represents perjury.
“He is the one that is allowing that perjured testimony to be presented to the grand jury, and that is a direct violation of the Code of Professional Ethics,” she said.
 
Why is so much futile effort being expanded in this case? I could see it if Michael Brown was an actual innocent victim rather than a thug who attacked a police officer.

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I know it's rather tasteless, and I didn't want to post it initially but since this case is proving quite endless, what the hell.
 
I know it's rather tasteless, and I didn't want to post it initially but since this case is proving quite endless, what the hell.

Yup it is tasteless. It's actually pretty malicious. But "what the hell," right?
 
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