Michael Brown Shooting and Aftermath

[Jarhyn]

Derec, how many times must it be pointed out that Brown was not a 'thug' in the context of the stop? He was a pedestrian being harassed unnecessarily by cops who were going fishing for 'blacks' in a poor neighborhood.

He only became a 'thug' after the cop tried to browbeat him. And honestly, what kind of hope would a guy like brown have in seeking the removal of a bully cop? He had two options: let the cop treat him like a bitch, or stand up to the cop and escalate.

At some point, and it's a tragedy that the world is in this situation, when cops are bullies they need to be stood up to by any means necessary until they stop or one of you is dead. Sometimes the proper course is to do that in a court. When a court is not a place where that would be possible, the place to do it is on the street.

 

[Jarhyn]

Maybe when enough people stop letting cops treat them like 'bitches', cops will respect people enough to not do it. Cops are servants of the people, not our masters. Their job is to respect people, with no expectations of being respected back.

 

[Davka]

Maybe when enough people stop letting cops treat them like 'bitches', cops will respect people enough to not do it. Cops are servants of the people, not our masters. Their job is to respect people, with no expectations of being respected back.

Good luck with that. Most cops have an automatic filter: compliant citizen = good, non-compliant citizen = thug.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Derec, how many times must it be pointed out that Brown was not a 'thug' in the context of the stop? He was a pedestrian being harassed unnecessarily by cops who were going fishing for 'blacks' in a poor neighborhood.

He only became a 'thug' after the cop tried to browbeat him. And honestly, what kind of hope would a guy like brown have in seeking the removal of a bully cop? He had two options: let the cop treat him like a bitch, or stand up to the cop and escalate.

At some point, and it's a tragedy that the world is in this situation, when cops are bullies they need to be stood up to by any means necessary until they stop or one of you is dead. Sometimes the proper course is to do that in a court. When a court is not a place where that would be possible, the place to do it is on the street.

He's a thug for the robbery, not for his interaction with the cop.

 

[Jarhyn]

Derec, how many times must it be pointed out that Brown was not a 'thug' in the context of the stop? He was a pedestrian being harassed unnecessarily by cops who were going fishing for 'blacks' in a poor neighborhood.

He only became a 'thug' after the cop tried to browbeat him. And honestly, what kind of hope would a guy like brown have in seeking the removal of a bully cop? He had two options: let the cop treat him like a bitch, or stand up to the cop and escalate.

At some point, and it's a tragedy that the world is in this situation, when cops are bullies they need to be stood up to by any means necessary until they stop or one of you is dead. Sometimes the proper course is to do that in a court. When a court is not a place where that would be possible, the place to do it is on the street.

He's a thug for the robbery, not for his interaction with the cop.

attend this well: the cop didn't know about the robbery, so the robbery does not justify the cop's action. It would be different if the cop had known. An action is right or wrong when taken, not when the results are known.

 

[Jayjay]

Neither stealing cigarettes nor attacking a police officer warrants capital punishment. So clearly, even if one were to agree that Wilson was justified in shooting Brown in self-defense, there is no reasonable to think this was "justice".

Justice would have been to have Brown jailed for robbery and assaulting a police officer.

 

[Jarhyn]

Neither stealing cigarettes nor attacking a police officer warrants capital punishment. So clearly, even if one were to agree that Wilson was justified in shooting Brown in self-defense, there is no reasonable to think this was "justice".

Justice would have been to have Brown jailed for robbery and assaulting a police officer.

no. The best of all worlds, starting at the racist stop, would see the officer in a corrections facility until he learned that trolling
Poor communities to bully the powerless is wrong, and brown ending up there until he learned that robbing people is wrong.

 

[Jayjay]

Neither stealing cigarettes nor attacking a police officer warrants capital punishment. So clearly, even if one were to agree that Wilson was justified in shooting Brown in self-defense, there is no reasonable to think this was "justice".

Justice would have been to have Brown jailed for robbery and assaulting a police officer.

no. The best of all worlds, starting at the racist stop, would see the officer in a corrections facility until he learned that trolling
Poor communities to bully the powerless is wrong, and brown ending up there until he learned that robbing people is wrong.

That michael brown is a robber and resisted a police officer are facts. Whether the original stop was racially motivated or otherwise improper is a matter of your personal opinion.

 

[Jarhyn]

no. The best of all worlds, starting at the racist stop, would see the officer in a corrections facility until he learned that trolling
Poor communities to bully the powerless is wrong, and brown ending up there until he learned that robbing people is wrong.

That michael brown is a robber and resisted a police officer are facts. Whether the original stop was racially motivated or otherwise improper is a matter of your personal opinion.

I've seen it happen enough times, having had a black husband, having lived in poor neighborhoods, and having lived in Missouri for three years, to know that police with nothing better to do will patrols in poor neighborhoods looking for minor offenses, often not to ticket people but to just impose on them, not unlike how awful men will stand outside of bars catcalling women.

In this case, the evidence is clear: a cop was in a poor neighborhood harassing people over jaywalking. I've never once seen any cop anywhere harass anyone over jaywalking. Where he was (a poor community of mostly dark skinned people), and what he was doing (pressing one of the most petty and pedantic 'public order' laws on the books) is trolling. Maybe Wilson didn't see it that way, but unless a cop gets a call, and is responding to that call directly and promptly, or doing an actual investigation, they have no business trolling around poor neighbourhoods.

 

[Derec]

I've seen it happen enough times, having had a black husband, having lived in poor neighborhoods, and having lived in Missouri for three years, to know that police with nothing better to do will patrols in poor neighborhoods looking for minor offenses, often not to ticket people but to just impose on them, not unlike how awful men will stand outside of bars catcalling women.

Telling somebody to stop doing some "minor offense" is not harassing behavior for police.

In this case, the evidence is clear: a cop was in a poor neighborhood harassing people over jaywalking.

There is nothing wrong with a cop approaching a person or persons walking in the middle of the street and telling them to use the sidewalk.

I've never once seen any cop anywhere harass anyone over jaywalking.

How often have you seen police ignore jaywalking if they observe it?

Where he was (a poor community of mostly dark skinned people), and what he was doing (pressing one of the most petty and pedantic 'public order' laws on the books) is trolling. Maybe Wilson didn't see it that way, but unless a cop gets a call, and is responding to that call directly and promptly, or doing an actual investigation, they have no business trolling around poor neighbourhoods.

He was returning from a call. Also, police do routinely patrol neighborhoods, including poor neighborhoods. Do you really think police should just stay out of poor neighborhoods?

 

[Derec]

]no. The best of all worlds, starting at the racist stop,

What is your evidence that the stop was "racist"?

would see the officer in a corrections facility until he learned that trolling Poor communities to bully the powerless is wrong, and brown ending up there until he learned that robbing people is wrong.

Police patrolling a neighborhood != "trolling Poor(sic) communities".

 

[Derec]

Neither stealing cigarettes nor attacking a police officer warrants capital punishment. So clearly, even if one were to agree that Wilson was justified in shooting Brown in self-defense, there is no reasonable to think this was "justice".

You are taking that picture too literally. I am sure it was made out of disgust at all the undue support Michael Brown has received as a cause celebre. I myself only posted it after people can not accept the grand jury ruling and instead are trying to sue the DA.

Justice would have been to have Brown jailed for robbery and assaulting a police officer.

And had he survived that's what would have happened.

 

[Derec]

attend this well: the cop didn't know about the robbery, so the robbery does not justify the cop's action. It would be different if the cop had known. An action is right or wrong when taken, not when the results are known.

Michael Brown knew he had just committed the robbery. That's why he attacked the police officer who confronted him over walking in the middle of the street. The police officer is well within his rights to stop a pedestrian engaging in unlawful behavior.

300.405. 1. Where sidewalks are provided it shall be unlawful for any pedestrian to walk along and upon an adjacent roadway.
2. Where sidewalks are not provided any pedestrian walking along and upon a highway shall when practicable walk only on the left side of the roadway or its shoulder facing traffic which may approach from the opposite direction.

It was not racially motivated harassment but a legal stop.

 

[Derec]

Derec, how many times must it be pointed out that Brown was not a 'thug' in the context of the stop?

He was a thug in the context of the robbery. He was a thug in how he responded to the legal and justified stop by the police officer.
And while walking in the middle of the street is not thuggish behavior, it is still unlawful and the police officer is well within his rights to tell them to get out of the street and use the sidewalk.

He was a pedestrian being harassed unnecessarily by cops who were going fishing for 'blacks' in a poor neighborhood.

No, he was a pedestrian behaving unlawfully. It was not harassment to stop him. It was not "fishing for blacks in a poor neighborhood". It was a police officer doing his job, which is law enforcement.

He only became a 'thug' after the cop tried to browbeat him.

Even if he felt he was unfairly stopped (he wasn't) he should not have attacked the cop. Of course, the reason he did had to do with the robbery he committed just minutes before.

And honestly, what kind of hope would a guy like brown have in seeking the removal of a bully cop?

Remove him? What the hell for? Doing his job?

He had two options: let the cop treat him like a bitch, or stand up to the cop and escalate.

How is a cop telling somebody who is behaving unlawfully to cease and desist "treating him like a bitch"? If Michael Brown really thought that he really needed to grow a much thicker skin.

At some point, and it's a tragedy that the world is in this situation, when cops are bullies they need to be stood up to by any means necessary until they stop or one of you is dead. Sometimes the proper course is to do that in a court. When a court is not a place where that would be possible, the place to do it is on the street.

If he hadn't robbed the place and had moved to the sidewalk the courts would not have entered into it unless Wilson wanted to give them jaywalking tickets.
And even if they'd gotten tickets, what recourse do you want courts to give them? They were guilty of violating section 300.405 after all.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

He was a thug in how he responded to the legal and justified stop by the police officer.

You have evidence of a timeline that is not public?

 

[Jarhyn]

Michael Brown knew he had just committed the robbery. That's why he attacked the police officer who confronted him over walking in the middle of the street. The police officer is well within his rights to stop a pedestrian engaging in unlawful behavior.

300.405. 1. Where sidewalks are provided it shall be unlawful for any pedestrian to walk along and upon an adjacent roadway.
2. Where sidewalks are not provided any pedestrian walking along and upon a highway shall when practicable walk only on the left side of the roadway or its shoulder facing traffic which may approach from the opposite direction.

It was not racially motivated harassment but a legal stop.

You keep pointing to the legality of the stop as if that makes it justified. If a cop pulled you over for, say, jaywalking, when you stepped out into the street a half second before getting a walk signal, then arrested you for not complying with a lawful order when you stood dumbly not understanding he was talking to you, then when you tensed up in any way tazed you for resisting arrest, it is certainly LEGAL, but it isn't JUSTIFIED.

There are things everyone does every day that are illegal. Being a pedantic asshole about those rules is not justified.

 

[Jarhyn]

He was a thug in the context of the robbery. He was a thug in how he responded to the legal and justified stop by the police officer.
And while walking in the middle of the street is not thuggish behavior, it is still unlawful and the police officer is well within his rights to tell them to get out of the street and use the sidewalk.

He was a pedestrian being harassed unnecessarily by cops who were going fishing for 'blacks' in a poor neighborhood.

No, he was a pedestrian behaving unlawfully. It was not harassment to stop him. It was not "fishing for blacks in a poor neighborhood". It was a police officer doing his job, which is law enforcement.

He only became a 'thug' after the cop tried to browbeat him.

Even if he felt he was unfairly stopped (he wasn't) he should not have attacked the cop. Of course, the reason he did had to do with the robbery he committed just minutes before.

And honestly, what kind of hope would a guy like brown have in seeking the removal of a bully cop?

Remove him? What the hell for? Doing his job?

He had two options: let the cop treat him like a bitch, or stand up to the cop and escalate.

How is a cop telling somebody who is behaving unlawfully to cease and desist "treating him like a bitch"? If Michael Brown really thought that he really needed to grow a much thicker skin.

At some point, and it's a tragedy that the world is in this situation, when cops are bullies they need to be stood up to by any means necessary until they stop or one of you is dead. Sometimes the proper course is to do that in a court. When a court is not a place where that would be possible, the place to do it is on the street.

If he hadn't robbed the place and had moved to the sidewalk the courts would not have entered into it unless Wilson wanted to give them jaywalking tickets.
And even if they'd gotten tickets, what recourse do you want courts to give them? They were guilty of violating section 300.405 after all.

seriously, fuck the law and fuck the police when they get in a huff over someone jaywalking in a poor neighborhood. It happens. Deal with it. We are paying these people to respond to robberies, not
Jaywalking. And if someone really needs to use the street to move their car (doubtful, given the neighborhood), and Michael brown gets run over for not moving, good on the guy that creams him.

Seriously how vigerously do you believe jaywalking statutes ought be enforced? Tell me you've never jaywalked before!

 

[Jayjay]

If he hadn't robbed the place and had moved to the sidewalk the courts would not have entered into it unless Wilson wanted to give them jaywalking tickets.
And even if they'd gotten tickets, what recourse do you want courts to give them? They were guilty of violating section 300.405 after all.

seriously, fuck the law and fuck the police when they get in a huff over someone jaywalking in a poor neighborhood. It happens. Deal with it. We are paying these people to respond to robberies, not Jaywalking.

Michael Brown case is a really poor example then because the jaywalker was actually a robber.

Consider this incident:

A pimp for whom authorities searched nearly two years for alleged human trafficking in Athens was recently busted because he made the wrong step.

On Jan. 16, Archie Richard Byrd was questioned by an officer in DeKalb County when he was seen jaywalking.

Initially giving an alias, Byrd was eventually found to be the person who eluded authorities in April 2012 when local, state and federal authorities set up a sting at a motel near downtown Athens. The operation was designed to capture human traffickers and rescue the underage girls from the sex trade.

“Archie Byrd was charged with providing the officer with a false name and date of birth, but it was the jaywalking that alerted the police and what lead to the contact with him,” said Mark Malueg, supervisor of the Athens-Clarke County police Vice Unit.

Should be berate the cops for harrassing this guy for jaywalking when they should have been looking for pimps and human traffickers?

 

[Shadowy Man]

Should be berate the cops for harrassing this guy for jaywalking when they should have been looking for pimps and human traffickers?

So, because the cops accidentally found a bad criminal via a jaywalking stop, you are saying that stopping any and all for jaywalking is justified?

 

[George S]

Should be berate the cops for harrassing this guy for jaywalking when they should have been looking for pimps and human traffickers?

So, because the cops accidentally found a bad criminal via a jaywalking stop, you are saying that stopping any and all for jaywalking is justified?

There are a billion laws. Stopping someone for any of them is a legal stop. Full stop.

If there should not be a law against jaywalking see your legislators.