Minneapolis submits voluntarily

[Politesse]

I don't support the restriction of any faith's customary traditions.

That would include FGM.

Derail denied.

 

[thebeave]

I don't support the restriction of any faith's customary traditions.

That would include FGM.

And also anti-homosexuality.

 

[barbos]

I don't support the restriction of any faith's customary traditions.

That would include FGM.

Derail denied.

Loss of an argument duly noted.

 

[TSwizzle]

I don't support the restriction of any faith's customary traditions.

That would include FGM.

And also anti-homosexuality.

Stoning adulterers. Slavery.

 

[barbos]

I don't support the restriction of any faith's customary traditions.

That would include FGM.

And also anti-homosexuality.

Stoning adulterers. Slavery.

I heard public beheading is very popular tradition in some religions. Minneapolis City Council should vote to accommodate that too.

 

[Toni]

I don't support the restriction of any faith's customary traditions.

That would include FGM.

And also anti-homosexuality.

Stoning adulterers. Slavery.

I heard public beheading is very popular tradition in some religions. Minneapolis City Council should vote to accommodate that too.

My understanding that your personal religion of bigotry is well embraced in Minneapolis.

 

[Politesse]

I don't support the restriction of any faith's customary traditions.

That would include FGM.

Derail denied.

Loss of an argument duly noted.

Willing to "lose an argument" in this case. I have no interest in getting into yet another "side discussion" about genitals that becomes the thread.

 

[Bomb#20]

Anyway, what is the point being made? That loud noises can be annoying? That loud noises at night when you're trying to sleep are really annoying? I think everyone participating in this thread has already explicitly agreed on that.

Indeed. So why the thread right now on this uncontroversial topic?

Could it just possibly be that noise pollution, or even religious noise pollution, isn't the cause being promoted, but that instead the OP is attempting to use this real (but not new or particularly urgent) issue as a trojan horse to persuade people that Muslims are uniquely and especially bad?

No, it could not. Did you even read the OP and the author's other thread posts? If somebody wanted to persuade people that Muslims are uniquely and especially bad, early morning calls to prayer would not be one of the top ten go-to complaints.

They're not. They're just as bad as Christians - and just as varied in their degree of 'badness'.

Bingo. And yet the city council and this "woke leftist" forum appear to bestow a higher stack position on Muslims than on Christians. The OP is plainly attempting to use this real issue as a trojan horse to persuade people that "woke utopia" is uniquely and especially bad.

Islam is stupid. If you live in the Middle East, it's stupid to the point of being personally dangerous. But there's zero risk of America becoming an islamic theocracy. The Christians are the Americans we need to worry about.

There's zero risk of America becoming a Christian theocracy. If we're going to worry about religious Americans with theocratic tendencies, Christianity has gone through decay and sustain into terminal release; wokism is still in the attack phase.

 

[Arctish]

What do you mean when you say the city council and this "woke leftist" forum appear to bestow a higher stack position on Muslims than on Christians?

Christian churches in America have been allowed to make loud noises for centuries. The city council voted to grant Muslim mosques the same privilege. That's equal treatment under the law, not a higher stack position.

Is it the possibility of obnoxious noises at 3:30 am that's bothering you? Why don't we wait and see how loud the call to prayer is before we declare that it's excessive? And also see if Minneapolis is cracking down on motorcycles and parties that are just as loud?

 

[barbos]

The city council voted to grant Muslim mosques the same privilege

Not the same. Churches were not allowed to produce noise pollution at night.

 

[barbos]

Is it the possibility of obnoxious noises at 3:30 am that's bothering you? Why don't we wait and see how loud the call to prayer is before we declare that it's excessive?

I don't want to wait. Night calls should be explicitly forbidden.

 

[Elixir]

The city council voted to grant Muslim mosques the same privilege

Not the same. Churches were not allowed to produce noise pollution at night.

Lol! Let’s see if they really want to compete!
Maybe the Council will re-consider if EVERY faith makes it a point to try to own the night and all its noises.

 

[thebeave]

The insane part of all this is this is an easily solvable problem with a "win/win" for both sides. A Muslim (or non-Muslim, even) with very basic programming capability could create a free smartphone app that tracks the sunrises and sunset through out the year at a specific location and sends out a ringtone to all users 5 times time a day at the correct time through out the year. Users could even personalize the app to change the ringtone tune/message or skip some of the notifications in case they are already sleep deprived or keep their baby from waking up, etc. The rest of us can get a good night's sleep and not be so grumpy in the morning about those obnoxious Muslims. And yes, there are likely some low income, recent immigrant Muslims who can't afford a phone or cell service. In that case, the mosque can create a private fund funded by the more well off Muslims to get them phones and train them how to use it. The other functions of the smartphone will help better their lives in other ways. Some may counter this idea by saying that using a phone app is not in keeping with traditional, old school Muslim calls to prayer, but guess what? Neither is blaring it out through a 21st century amplifier and loud speaker in keeping with ancient Muslim ways.

I don't understand why this has become so difficult. There are a lot of social issues we discuss here that don't have any easy satisfying solution for both sides. Such as transpeople using public gyms and restrooms, abortion rights, etc. This one seems like a no brainer.

 

[Thomas II]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeakers_in_mosques

 

[Politesse]

The rest of us can get a good night's sleep and not be so grumpy in the morning about those obnoxious Muslims.

Or you could just grow up and not make mountains out of molehills?

 

[Thomas II]

The rest of us can get a good night's sleep and not be so grumpy in the morning about those obnoxious Muslims.

Or you could just grow up and not make mountains out of molehills?

"Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, has recognized that the overzealous use of sound amplification by its many mosques is an environmental issue and appears to be taking official measures to curb the problem.[18] However, in August 2018, a woman who complained of the volume of her local mosque's speakers was eventually given an 18-month prison sentence for blasphemy, while mobs burned 14 Buddhist temples following the news of her complaint against the loudspeakers.[19] As a direct response to this incident, Indonesia's Ministry of Religious Affairs issued a circular on Adhan or the Islamic call to prayer, with guidelines on when and how it ought to be broadcast by mosques.[20] The issue continues to divide as of March 2022 when the Ministry issued even stricter guidelines, which included restricting sound levels to 100 decibels and any pre-call to prayer sermons to 10 minutes duration, down from the previous 15."

 

[laughing dog]

The rest of us can get a good night's sleep and not be so grumpy in the morning about those obnoxious Muslims.

Or you could just grow up and not make mountains out of molehills?

"Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, has recognized that the overzealous use of sound amplification by its many mosques is an environmental issue and appears to be taking official measures to curb the problem.[18] However, in August 2018, a woman who complained of the volume of her local mosque's speakers was eventually given an 18-month prison sentence for blasphemy, while mobs burned 14 Buddhist temples following the news of her complaint against the loudspeakers.[19] As a direct response to this incident, Indonesia's Ministry of Religious Affairs issued a circular on Adhan or the Islamic call to prayer, with guidelines on when and how it ought to be broadcast by mosques.[20] The issue continues to divide as of March 2022 when the Ministry issued even stricter guidelines, which included restricting sound levels to 100 decibels and any pre-call to prayer sermons to 10 minutes duration, down from the previous 15."

I think everyone in thread recognizes that loud noise is bothersome and that loud noise early in the morning can be a real issue.

However, there is no evidence at this time that the change in the noise ordnance will cause a problem.

Moreover, there was no reported organized opposition in Minneapolis to the change, nor has the been any visible opposition from neighbors.

For some reason(s) known only to the objectors in this thread to this change, they believe that they know more about the imams of those mosques and their relationships with their neighbors than the neighbors do. In addition, the objectors appear to believe they know more about the traditions and mores of Muslims than Muslims do when they propose "simple solutions".

 

[thebeave]

The rest of us can get a good night's sleep and not be so grumpy in the morning about those obnoxious Muslims.

Or you could just grow up and not make mountains out of molehills?

Or the Muslims could just grow up and make a bigger effort to compromise with those who don't share their values.

 

[TomC]

The rest of us can get a good night's sleep and not be so grumpy in the morning about those obnoxious Muslims.

Or you could just grow up and not make mountains out of molehills?

Or the Muslims could just grow up and make a bigger effort to compromise with those who don't share their values.

Care to respond to this:

At least the call to prayer doesn't pound a loud enough bass to rattle the paintings on my wall.

Sincerely,

a Minneapolis resident.

Based on my research(almost 5 minutes of googling) that seems to be the general attitude of the locals. I saw news reports about the ordinance. It passed the city council 12-0. I didn't see any reports of quivering outrage from anyone affected by it.

Perhaps the mosque is simply being more considerate of the neighborhood than we non-locals imagine. If they don't care, I've no reason to.
Tom

I'm hardly a Muslim. And I don't want to live in city as large as Minneapolis, I like things quiet.

But if the mosque's neighbors don't care why do you?

I get that you're annoyed by religious exemptions. I also find them annoying. But this just doesn't seem important to me.
Tom

 

[Thomas II]

The rest of us can get a good night's sleep and not be so grumpy in the morning about those obnoxious Muslims.

Or you could just grow up and not make mountains out of molehills?

"Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, has recognized that the overzealous use of sound amplification by its many mosques is an environmental issue and appears to be taking official measures to curb the problem.[18] However, in August 2018, a woman who complained of the volume of her local mosque's speakers was eventually given an 18-month prison sentence for blasphemy, while mobs burned 14 Buddhist temples following the news of her complaint against the loudspeakers.[19] As a direct response to this incident, Indonesia's Ministry of Religious Affairs issued a circular on Adhan or the Islamic call to prayer, with guidelines on when and how it ought to be broadcast by mosques.[20] The issue continues to divide as of March 2022 when the Ministry issued even stricter guidelines, which included restricting sound levels to 100 decibels and any pre-call to prayer sermons to 10 minutes duration, down from the previous 15."

I think everyone in thread recognizes that loud noise is bothersome and that loud noise early in the morning can be a real issue.

However, there is no evidence at this time that the change in the noise ordnance will cause a problem.

Moreover, there was no reported organized opposition in Minneapolis to the change, nor has the been any visible opposition from neighbors.

For some reason(s) known only to the objectors in this thread to this change, they believe that they know more about the imams of those mosques and their relationships with their neighbors than the neighbors do. In addition, the objectors appear to believe they know more about the traditions and mores of Muslims than Muslims do when they propose "simple solutions".

Noise pollution is a universal problem, and a fairly recent issue due to technology, which MUST be regulated because it affects us all, just like AI (Artificial Intelligence) MUST be regulated because its going to affect life in all kinds of ways...