Morality in Bible stories that you don't understand

[DBT]

Then there's the Gnostic belief that Yahweh is an evil demiurge, that He's the 'Satan' who is in charge of the world.

The gnostics belief has an interesting take, in that, for many Christians, Yahweh is the 'messenger of the Lord', who had authority to pass judgement, in parts of the old testament, who was NOT the father ( may provide the answer to some questions, like 'no one had seen the Father's face and lived etc..)- (Jesus will be judge again, in the end of days).

The gnostics version identifies there being two entities also! 'However... according to them (the gnostics) Yahweh is but an evil 'demi-god: but is not the the Father. It's been an interesting belief for many Christians, because this distorted narrative... Yahweh being parallel to Christ (as creator) hints a layer in this gnostic twisting as being anti-Jesus/ anti-christ underneath.

It's not twisting. It's a means of explaining the obviously cruel, intolerant and vindictive nature of Yahweh as described in the Old Testament, which is clearly not that of a God of Love.

 

[Learner]

I would say that most human parents are more loving than the Father of Us All as presented in scripture. Few earthly parents tell their kids, "Those are the house rules, and you either follow them or I'll burn you in the basement."

Fortunately the children in your analogy don't murder other children, nor rape and pillage, nor seriously harm or abuse people for their own selfish and lustful gains.

Just as well, such a task requires more than being human ... since it would be quite a task to lay down tough laws that would be beyond our hesitant emotional fragility, to mete out a punishment for murder and other hideous crimes... especially if it were our own Children.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I would say that most human parents are more loving than the Father of Us All as presented in scripture. Few earthly parents tell their kids, "Those are the house rules, and you either follow them or I'll burn you in the basement."

Fortunately the children in your analogy don't murder other children, nor rape and pillage, nor seriously harm or abuse people for their own selfish and lustful gains.

Just as well, such a task requires more than being human ... since it would be quite a task to lay down tough laws that would be beyond our hesitant emotional fragility, to mete out a punishment for murder and other hideous crimes... especially if it were our own Children.

You don't have to murder, rape or pillage to end up in hell. Little Cody and Courtney deserve eternal torment if, after the age of accountability, they don't accept orthodox doctrine. According to the atrocious teaching at MT 7:13-4, and many supporting scriptures, at least 2/3 of humanity deserves hell. Also... God spends an awful lot of time in Deuteronomy, Numbers, Joshua, etc., giving explicit orders to murder, rape and pillage. It's all good if the people you're destroying are on the love god's shit list.

 

[annewimsey]

When one needs to explain/justify why another group of people needs to be wiped off the face of the earth, pretty much any reason will do.....See: pre- Holocaust propaganda.

 

[Thomas II]

https://www.debunking-christianity.com/2006/02/barbaric-god-of-bible.html

"The truth is that nature’s God does many things that if we did them we’d be indicted for crimes against humanity. This is what John Stuart Mill (1806-1873) argued: “In sober truth, nearly all the things which men are hanged or imprisoned for doing to one another are nature’s everyday performances. Killing, the most criminal act recognized by human laws, nature does once to every being that lives, and in a large proportion of cases after protracted tortures such as only the greatest monsters whom we read of ever purposely inflicted on their living fellow creatures. Nature impales men, breaks them as if on the wheel, casts them to be devoured by wild beasts, burns them to death, crushes them with stones, starves them with hunger, freezes them with the cold, poisons them by the quick or slow venom of her exhalations, and has hundreds of other hideous deaths in reserve such as the ingenious cruelty of a Nabis or a Domitian never surpassed. She mows down those on whose existence hangs the well-being of a whole people, with as little compunction as those whose death is a relief to themselves."

"Next to taking life is taking the means by which we live; and nature does this too, on the largest scale and with the most callous indifference. A single hurricane destroys the hopes of a season; a flight of locusts desolates a district; a trifling chemical change in an edible root starves a million people. The waves of the sea, like banditti, seize and appropriate the wealth of the rich and the little all of the poor. Everything, in short, which the worst men commit either against life or property is perpetrated on a larger scale by natural agents." [Nature and the Utility of Religion, 1871].

 

[Learner]

Then there's the Gnostic belief that Yahweh is an evil demiurge, that He's the 'Satan' who is in charge of the world.

The gnostics belief has an interesting take, in that, for many Christians, Yahweh is the 'messenger of the Lord', who had authority to pass judgement, in parts of the old testament, who was NOT the father ( may provide the answer to some questions, like 'no one had seen the Father's face and lived etc..)- (Jesus will be judge again, in the end of days).

The gnostics version identifies there being two entities also! 'However... according to them (the gnostics) Yahweh is but an evil 'demi-god: but is not the the Father. It's been an interesting belief for many Christians, because this distorted narrative... Yahweh being parallel to Christ (as creator) hints a layer in this gnostic twisting as being anti-Jesus/ anti-christ underneath.

It's not twisting. It's a means of explaining the obviously cruel, intolerant and vindictive nature of Yahweh as described in the Old Testament, which is clearly not that of a God of Love.

It's a means of wishful thinking from your position. Explanations out-of-context are easy; you simply ignore all the verses (which there is quite a sum), like the context to wars with the Israelites and being righteous, turning from evil... to which God is strongly emphasised being the total opposite to your false characterisation.

 

[Learner]

I would say that most human parents are more loving than the Father of Us All as presented in scripture. Few earthly parents tell their kids, "Those are the house rules, and you either follow them or I'll burn you in the basement."

Fortunately the children in your analogy don't murder other children, nor rape and pillage, nor seriously harm or abuse people for their own selfish and lustful gains.

Just as well, such a task requires more than being human ... since it would be quite a task to lay down tough laws that would be beyond our hesitant emotional fragility, to mete out a punishment for murder and other hideous crimes... especially if it were our own Children.

You don't have to murder, rape or pillage to end up in hell.

I see, and so your post I previously quoted, isn't quite the right analogy. I mean ... 'how' could you handle the situation as a parent, if children did actually murder, rape and pillage other children? It's a whole different perspective.

Little Cody and Courtney deserve eternal torment if, after the age of accountability, they don't accept orthodox doctrine.

Well it's on the 'case by case basis', but children are special to Jesus. Jesus came for the sinners etc.

According to the atrocious teaching at MT 7:13-4, and many supporting scriptures, at least 2/3 of humanity deserves hell.

Assuming you mean MT 7:13-14. this refers to the two gates. The broad and narrow gate. The convention suggests, everyone who doesn't follow Jesus, goes through the wide gate, while the believers go through the narrow gate...
But... there is another context to Matthew 7:13-14, if one inspects the following versed, which Christians do.

The verses below suggest, that those who call themselves believers, will be going through both gates! Many believers will go through the wide gate.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves

Matthew 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
“And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

Also... God spends an awful lot of time in Deuteronomy, Numbers, Joshua, etc., giving explicit orders to murder, rape and pillage. It's all good if the people you're destroying are on the love god's shit list.

The line in bold is like the gnostics would say. What should be obvious is the hideous crimes in bold, is punishable by death, against the commandments! So..there are no verses 'giving the explicit orders [by God] to "murder, rape and pillage".

 

[bilby]

I mean ... 'how' could you handle the situation as a parent, if children did actually murder, rape and pillage other children? It's a whole different perspective.

Well the Yaweh solution would be to kill every single child, teacher and janitor in their school, level the school to the ground, pulverise the rubble to dust, and salt the playing fields so no grass would ever grow there again.

You know, standard Biblical collective punishment.

It's deeply immoral, but God apparently has it as his go-to response.

 

[Learner]

I mean ... 'how' could you handle the situation as a parent, if children did actually murder, rape and pillage other children? It's a whole different perspective.

Well the Yaweh solution would be to kill every single child, teacher and janitor in their school, level the school to the ground, pulverise the rubble to dust, and salt the playing fields so no grass would ever grow there again.

The analogy would be about you in the scenario - the child and parent. God is outside, reflecting on a much bigger scale and ability. So how would you deal with it in the analogy?

You know, standard Biblical collective punishment.

It's deeply immoral, but God apparently has it as his go-to response.

I do know we have varied standards... or is that biblical preferences how one reads?

 

[bilby]

I mean ... 'how' could you handle the situation as a parent, if children did actually murder, rape and pillage other children? It's a whole different perspective.

Well the Yaweh solution would be to kill every single child, teacher and janitor in their school, level the school to the ground, pulverise the rubble to dust, and salt the playing fields so no grass would ever grow there again.

The analogy would be about you in the scenario - the child and parent. God is outside, reflecting on a much bigger scale and ability. So how would you deal with it in the analogy?

I would likely not kill anyone.

You know, standard Biblical collective punishment.

It's deeply immoral, but God apparently has it as his go-to response.

I do know we have varied standards... or is that biblical preferences how one reads?

Only if you call ignoring those clearly described events in the Bible that don't match your beliefs a "preference"

 

[DBT]

Then there's the Gnostic belief that Yahweh is an evil demiurge, that He's the 'Satan' who is in charge of the world.

The gnostics belief has an interesting take, in that, for many Christians, Yahweh is the 'messenger of the Lord', who had authority to pass judgement, in parts of the old testament, who was NOT the father ( may provide the answer to some questions, like 'no one had seen the Father's face and lived etc..)- (Jesus will be judge again, in the end of days).

The gnostics version identifies there being two entities also! 'However... according to them (the gnostics) Yahweh is but an evil 'demi-god: but is not the the Father. It's been an interesting belief for many Christians, because this distorted narrative... Yahweh being parallel to Christ (as creator) hints a layer in this gnostic twisting as being anti-Jesus/ anti-christ underneath.

It's not twisting. It's a means of explaining the obviously cruel, intolerant and vindictive nature of Yahweh as described in the Old Testament, which is clearly not that of a God of Love.

It's a means of wishful thinking from your position. Explanations out-of-context are easy; you simply ignore all the verses (which there is quite a sum), like the context to wars with the Israelites and being righteous, turning from evil... to which God is strongly emphasised being the total opposite to your false characterisation.

Genocide, wholesale slaughter and rape is the context.

 

[James Brown]

It's different when God does it.™

 

[Thomas II]

https://outlawbiblestudent.org/did-god-really-cause-those-hemorrhoids/

 

[DBT]

We live in a fallen world.

 

[Thomas II]

 

[Thomas II]

 

[Thomas II]

(Exodus 4:24-26) "On the way, at a place where they spent the night, the Lᴏʀᴅ met Moses and tried to kill him. But Zipporah took a flint and cut off her son's foreskin, and touched his feet with it, and said, "Truly you are a bridegroom of blood to me!" So he let him alone. It was then she said, "A bridegroom of blood by circumcision."

(The biblical redactor still bore this in mind when he added: "At that time she said 'bridegroom of blood,' referring to circumcision." Originally, young boys were sacrificed to the pantheistic Cretan and Phoenician goddesses only after the priestesses had consummated ritual intercourse, the sacred marriage, with them.)



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zipporah_at_the_inn#:~:text=The biblical redactor still bore,the sacred marriage, with them.

 

[DBT]

It's all about the blood.

 

[Thomas II]

It's all about the blood.

Yeah, still the primitive "demonic" energy...And the whole Jesus thing, as a "sacrificial lamb", full of blood and gore...because Yhwh would not have any other way...
And the mass is a repetition of the same thing, bread and wine, but still flesh and blood...I'm not buying it...
It's the old primitive "god"...transubstantiated and all...

 

[excreationist]

You don't have to murder, rape or pillage to end up in hell. Little Cody and Courtney deserve eternal torment if, after the age of accountability, they don't accept orthodox doctrine.

An intelligent fundy creationist once told me that even unborn babies would be going to hell based on this NIV verse:

Psalm 51:5
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.