Morality in Bible stories that you don't understand

[Thomas II]

''The Lord said to Moses, “When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.'' Exodus 4:21

Yeah, it's a fuck you now to the Pharaoh..."NOW you're fucked!..." The Pharaoh was a huge asshole and needed to be taught a lesson, anyway...The god of war, of fire and brimstone, the volcano, Mt Horeb, the dragon,...etc., meaning YHWH, gave him plenty of times to cease and desist, but he continued, set in his ways, and it cost him dearly...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Exodus is definitely bizarre, but the question becomes what is the point? Is it about defeating Pharaoh, or defeating Egyptian gods? Exodus 6:1 indicates that the Hebrews are saved because of a greater might. It potentially implies this isn't about anything but demonstrating the mightyness of Yahweh.

The Egyptian's magicians did perform acts of magic. This possibly indicates that the writers believe the Egyptians do indeed have gods and powers. But God will demonstrate he is stronger. So strong that he then controls Pharaoh's own decisions.

This starts looking like it isn't Hebrews v Egypt, but Yahweh v Egyptian Deities. And God's purpose isn't to free the Hebrews but to prove his own dominance. Which of course, is possibly the Hebrews attempting to bask in that reflected glory.

 

[Thomas II]

Exodus 7:10-12 New Living Translation (NLT)​

So Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and did what the LORD had commanded them. Aaron threw down his staff before Pharaoh and his officials, and it became a serpent! Then Pharaoh called in his own wise men and sorcerers, and these Egyptian magicians did the same thing with their magic. They threw down their staffs, which also became serpents! But then Aaron’s staff swallowed up their staffs.

 

[Thomas II]

The Storm-God in the Ancient Near East​

Alberto R. W. Green​

In this comprehensive study of a common deity found in the ancient Near East as well as many other cultures, Green brings together evidence from the worlds of myth, iconography, and literature in an attempt to arrive at a new synthesis regarding the place of the Storm-god. He finds that the Storm-god was the force primarily responsible for three major areas of human concern: (1) religious power because he was the ever-dominant environmental force upon which peoples depended for their very lives; (2) centralized political power; and (3) continuously evolving sociocultural processes, which typically were projected through the Storm-god’s attendants. Green traces these motifs through the Mesopotamian, Anatolian, Syrian, and Levantine regions; with regard to the latter, he argues that Yahweh of the Bible can be identified as a storm-god, though certain unique characteristics came to be associated with him: he was the Creator of all that is created and the self-existing god who needs no other.

 

[Thomas II]

Hmmm... So we're beginning to get it...It's a war of the "gods"!...And we're just starting to get into it...

 

[Thomas II]

It's all about the blood.

There's also the aroma:
Genesis 8:20-21
Then Noah built an altar to the Lord and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it. The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: “Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

Definitely, the aroma is a big part in the sacrificed burnt offerings!

In the Old Testament, YHWH commanded the priests of Israel to continually burn aromatic incense — made from a blend of five exotic spices — on the golden altar inside the Holy of Holies. It wasn’t simply the fragrance itself that pleased YHWH, but what it represented: the constant prayers of his people.

In fact, the incense, associated with the people’s prayers, was so pure and sacredly sweet to YHWH that any deviation from what YHWH had explicitly commanded was met with swift death, as Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, found out...(Leviticus 10: 1-2)...

"10 Aaron’s sons Nadab and Abihu took their censers, put fire in them and added incense; and they offered unauthorized fire before the Lord, contrary to his command. 2 So fire came out from the presence of the Lord and consumed them, and they died before the Lord..."

Wait...WHAT?

YHWH killed them because they used an unapproved mix of herbal incense?

 

[bilby]

they offered unauthorized fire before the Lord, contrary to his command

 

[DBT]

Burning the wrong incense is a serious offence.

 

[Thomas II]

Burning the wrong incense is a serious offence.

Wait, there's more...

" After they were killed, Moses commanded Aaron’s two cousins, Mishael and Elzaphan, to carry the bodies outside the camp of Israel (Leviticus 10:4-5). Moses then gave warning to Aaron and his two remaining sons not to grieve over the death of Nadab and Abihu lest they too invoke the wrath of the Lord (Leviticus 10:6)."

 

[Thomas II]

 

[Thomas II]

 

[DBT]

Well, it is the Good Book.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

The Storm-God in the Ancient Near East​

Alberto R. W. Green​

In this comprehensive study of a common deity found in the ancient Near East as well as many other cultures, Green brings together evidence from the worlds of myth, iconography, and literature in an attempt to arrive at a new synthesis regarding the place of the Storm-god. He finds that the Storm-god was the force primarily responsible for three major areas of human concern: (1) religious power because he was the ever-dominant environmental force upon which peoples depended for their very lives; (2) centralized political power; and (3) continuously evolving sociocultural processes, which typically were projected through the Storm-god’s attendants. Green traces these motifs through the Mesopotamian, Anatolian, Syrian, and Levantine regions; with regard to the latter, he argues that Yahweh of the Bible can be identified as a storm-god, though certain unique characteristics came to be associated with him: he was the Creator of all that is created and the self-existing god who needs no other.

The big fly in the ointment here is that from ancient mythology of the Canaanitegod El, it was his son Baal that was the storm god. Yahweh was a god from the border regions od Egypt. Almost nothing is known about the nature of that Shasu god. Yahweh's origins or associated mythology. Or how Yahweh displaced El in Israelite mythology. After Merneptah's attack on the "nine bows" of Canaan, we had the formation of the hilltoo farms that were the birth place of Israel as we understood the term. They lived there two centuries and move to the Israelite low lands after Egypt ceased to be the dominant power there. I suspect that is where Yahwehism was found. But the Yahweh we think of found in the Pentateuch was the Yahweh of 3 or 4 centuries after tribes of Israel abandoned their hill top farms. The OT tells us that the priests of Yahweh and Baal were fighting for the hearts and minds of average Israelites.

 

[Thomas II]

The Storm-God in the Ancient Near East​

Alberto R. W. Green​

In this comprehensive study of a common deity found in the ancient Near East as well as many other cultures, Green brings together evidence from the worlds of myth, iconography, and literature in an attempt to arrive at a new synthesis regarding the place of the Storm-god. He finds that the Storm-god was the force primarily responsible for three major areas of human concern: (1) religious power because he was the ever-dominant environmental force upon which peoples depended for their very lives; (2) centralized political power; and (3) continuously evolving sociocultural processes, which typically were projected through the Storm-god’s attendants. Green traces these motifs through the Mesopotamian, Anatolian, Syrian, and Levantine regions; with regard to the latter, he argues that Yahweh of the Bible can be identified as a storm-god, though certain unique characteristics came to be associated with him: he was the Creator of all that is created and the self-existing god who needs no other.

The big fly in the ointment here is that from ancient mythology of the Canaanitegod El, it was his son Baal that was the storm god. Yahweh was a god from the border regions od Egypt. Almost nothing is known about the nature of that Shasu god. Yahweh's origins or associated mythology. Or how Yahweh displaced El in Israelite mythology. After Merneptah's attack on the "nine bows" of Canaan, we had the formation of the hilltoo farms that were the birth place of Israel as we understood the term. They lived there two centuries and move to the Israelite low lands after Egypt ceased to be the dominant power there. I suspect that is where Yahwehism was found. But the Yahweh we think of found in the Pentateuch was the Yahweh of 3 or 4 centuries after tribes of Israel abandoned their hill top farms. The OT tells us that the priests of Yahweh and Baal were fighting for the hearts and minds of average Israelites.

No. You're wrong!!! I've watched the whole episode!!!

 

[Thomas II]

 

[Thomas II]

Burning the wrong incense is a serious offence.

It will get you killed...by the god of the Bible...

Now, let me ask you...Why do people still believe in it?

 

[Learner]

These roles were special positions, a duty for only the elite priesthood, who would know the commands and requirements for utmost purity, to enter into the Holy temple, in the presence of a Holy God. High priests should understand the consequences presenting unpure things before God. These roles require a different breed of dedicated people to be in the priesthood and wouldn't be for the likes of us.

 

[Thomas II]

These roles were special positions, a duty for only the elite priesthood, who would know the commands and requirements for utmost purity, to enter into the Holy temple, in the presence of a Holy God. High priests should understand the consequences presenting unpure things before God. These roles require a different breed of dedicated people to be in the priesthood and wouldn't be for the likes of us.

I have a few questions:
1) What were the substances included in the formula of the authorized incense? (herbs, oils, extracts, etc.)
2) What is the effect of each one of the substances?
3) What formula did Nadab and Abihu use instead of the established one?
4) Why did they do that? Why did they change the formula?
5) Did they know the consequences of changing that very specific formula?

 

[Thomas II]

These roles were special positions, a duty for only the elite priesthood, who would know the commands and requirements for utmost purity, to enter into the Holy temple, in the presence of a Holy God. High priests should understand the consequences presenting unpure things before God. These roles require a different breed of dedicated people to be in the priesthood and wouldn't be for the likes of us.

I have a few questions:
1) What were the substances included in the formula of the authorized incense? (herbs, oils, extracts, etc.)
2) What is the effect of each one of the substances?
3) What formula did Nadab and Abihu use instead of the established one?
4) Why did they do that? Why did they change the formula?
5) Did they know the consequences of changing that very specific formula?

1) Exodus 30:34 YHWH said to Moses, “Take sweet spices, stacte, and onycha, and galbanum, sweet spices with pure frankincense (of each shall there be an equal part), 35 and make an incense blended as by the perfumer, seasoned with salt, pure and holy. 36 You shall beat some of it very small, and put part of it before the testimony in the tent of meeting where I shall meet with you. It shall be most holy for you. 37 And the incense that you shall make according to its composition, you shall not make for yourselves. It shall be for you holy to the LORD. 38 Whoever makes any like it to use as perfume shall be cut off from his people.”

 

[Thomas II]

"This incense was made of sweet spices; many of them are difficult to identify today. The word translated ‘stacte’ literally means ‘drops’ and refers to the oozing gum resin from trees, possibly myrrh. ‘Onycha’ is thought to be an aromatic powder derived from scraping mollusk shells. ‘Galbanum’ is a very strong smelling gum resin taken from the stalk of the Ferula plant. Frankincense is a resin from Boswellia trees.

One curious ingredient is salt. The incense was to be ‘blended as by the perfumer, seasoned with salt, pure and holy’. Why salt? Salt was highly valued as a preservative in the ancient world, but incense does not go bad and would not need a preservative.

We find instructions in Leviticus that:

Leviticus 2:13 You shall season all your grain offerings with salt. You shall not let the salt of the covenant with your God be missing from your grain offering; with all your offerings you shall offer salt.

Salt, a preservative that makes things last, is symbolic of the permanence of the covenant agreement between God and his people. We find the phrase ‘covenant of salt’ several other times in the scriptures (Num.18:19; 2Ch.13:5). ‘Covenant of salt’ was a way of saying a covenant that would last or be preserved, synonymous with ‘an everlasting covenant’. Adding salt to the incense offered in the holy place would be a reminder that approach to God in prayer was based on a covenant relationship, where forgiveness was granted and access was opened through the sacrifice of a substitute."