DBT
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There are plenty of rationales on offer by those who are invested in a God of Love, yet these verses are explicit and undeniable: "kill them all."
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Morality in Bible stories that you don't understand
- Thread starter excreationist
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Learner
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Ah, but Jesus shines light on the distorted lens you (plural) are reading the texts with. Simply... Jesus quotes and backs-up the prophets and the OT, meaning... your morality filters and reading on the texts are contextually muddy! You're reading out of context!
I use to read as you do, but then there was Jesus. To be reminded...His two greatest commandments, hangs all the laws of the prophets.
'He is the only way' is exactly that in many ways, validation of the OT through Jesus!
There are quite a few Yahweh theories out there. Will the real McCoy please stand up?
I use to read as you do, but then there was Jesus. To be reminded...His two greatest commandments, hangs all the laws of the prophets.
'He is the only way' is exactly that in many ways, validation of the OT through Jesus!
There are quite a few Yahweh theories out there. Will the real McCoy please stand up?
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DBT
Contributor
The verses speak for themselves without interpretation or distortion. Yahweh was transformed from being a tribal god of war in early 'old testament' times into the creator of the universe and a God of love by Paul the great promotor of Christianity while he was under the influence of Greek philosophy.
excreationist
Married mouth-breather
And also verse 16:
"But what about the cities the Lord your God is giving you as your own? Kill everything that breathes in those cities""
Would babies and animals really teach the Israelites bad things about worshipping other gods?
Thomas II
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Thomas II
Contributor
“One problem with Yahweh, as they used to say in the old Christian Gnostic texts, is that he forgot he was a metaphor. He thought he was a fact. And when he said, “I am God,” a voice was heard to say, “You are mistaken, Samael.” “Samael” means “blind god”: blind to the infinite Light of which he is a local historical manifestation. This is known as the blasphemy of Jehovah—that he thought he was God.”
― Joseph Campbell, The Power of Myth
DBT
Contributor
Then there's the Gnostic belief that Yahweh is an evil demiurge, that He's the 'Satan' who is in charge of the world.
Politesse
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That is an incredibly tangled mish-mash of different gods from different cultures at different times... I'm not entirely sure which gods some of these are supposed to be referring to, in fact. Is 'Anot meant to be Anat, the Amorite goddess of war and the hunt who retrieved Baal from the underworld?
Thomas II
Contributor
Apparently Anat is also spelled ANATH...That is an incredibly tangled mish-mash of different gods from different cultures at different times... I'm not entirely sure which gods some of these are supposed to be referring to, in fact. Is 'Anot meant to be Anat, the Amorite goddess of war and the hunt who retrieved Baal from the underworld?
"Anath, also spelled Anat, chief West Semitic goddess of love and war, the sister and helpmate of the god Baal.
Considered a beautiful young girl, she was often designated “the Virgin” in ancient texts. Probably one of the best-known of the Canaanite deities, she was famous for her youthful vigour and ferocity in battle; in that respect she was adopted as a special favourite by the Egyptian king Ramses II (reigned 1279–13 BC). Although Anath was often associated with the god Resheph in ritual texts, she was primarily known for her role in the myth of Baal’s death and resurrection, in which she mourned and searched for him and finally helped to retrieve him from the netherworld.
Egyptian representations of Anath show a nude goddess, often standing on a lion and holding flowers. During the Hellenistic Age, the goddesses Anath and Astarte were blended into one deity, called Atargatis."
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Anath
Politesse
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Correct. Real powerhouse that one, portrayed as a virginal girl with a spindle in one hand and a badass spear in the other. In the Ugaritic texts, she slays her brother Yam and his armies, dances gleefully in their blood, leaves the victory party early to go slaughter the warriors of two nearby towns just for fun, comes back, and then stays late to clean up after everyone has gone home.Apparently Anat is also spelled ANATH...That is an incredibly tangled mish-mash of different gods from different cultures at different times... I'm not entirely sure which gods some of these are supposed to be referring to, in fact. Is 'Anot meant to be Anat, the Amorite goddess of war and the hunt who retrieved Baal from the underworld?
"Anath, also spelled Anat, chief West Semitic goddess of love and war, the sister and helpmate of the god Baal."
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Anath
Thomas II
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https://www.gotquestions.org/let-this-cup-pass-from-me.html
"The gospels contain an account of the time the disciples and Jesus spent in the Garden of Gethsemane, just before Jesus was arrested. In the garden Jesus prayed to his Father three times, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will”—the KJV says, “Let this cup pass from me” (Matthew 26:39). A little later, Jesus prays, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done” (Matthew 26:42). These prayers reveal Jesus’ mindset just before the crucifixion and His total submission to the will of God."
Question: Is Jesus referring to YHWH as his father?
If that is the case, YHWH's will is for Jesus to die...
Question: Who killed Jesus?
Learner
Veteran Member
You can find in books, and recordings in early media formats, about wars in history, for example, and not too far back: 'Western allied forces' killed thousands of Hitler's soldiers - dropping bombs on the cities of their enemies in Europe, and the two devastating atom-bombs on the cities of Japan. These speak for themselves.
Perhaps you can start a thread, where you can judge these warring nations through the same eyes you have for those nations warring in biblical times (as you do with the Israelites).
Unfortunately, that's a flawed notion to suggest the 'God of Love' idea and phrasing, started from a 'Greek influence" from Paul, when... John, Zephaniah, Jeremiah, David, Peter etc.. also promoted God is Love too!
DBT
Contributor
Of course the God of Love idea began before Paul, but Paul was the great promotor of Christianity who borrowed from several sources, including Greek philosophy . The point being, basically, that we have verses throughout the bible that contradict each other, where one set describes a cruel vindictive, tyrannical God, while the other describes a God of love. As the two opposing descriptions are not compatible, we have a contradiction.
Thomas II
Contributor
Demiurge definition...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge#:~:text=According to some strains of,is simply ignorant or misguided.
Joseph Campbell refers to him as SAMAEL...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael
So, DBT, what do you think?
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bilby
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So, you are saying that God is no better nor more moral than humans?
I agree; That's an inevitable consequence of His being a figment of their imaginations.
ideologyhunter
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I would say that most human parents are more loving than the Father of Us All as presented in scripture. Few earthly parents tell their kids, "Those are the house rules, and you either follow them or I'll burn you in the basement."
DBT
Contributor
New Testament....'believe in Jesus as your personal saviour or Fry.'
Thomas II
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https://www.gotquestions.org/personal-Savior.html
"What is a Savior, and why do we need a Savior? The Bible tells us that we have all sinned; we have all committed evil acts (Romans 3:10-18). As a result of our sin, we deserve God’s anger and judgment. The only just punishment for sins committed against an infinite and eternal God is an infinite punishment (Romans 6:23; Revelation 20:11-15). That is why we need a Savior!"
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bilby
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It's truly a religion for slaves. This idea that the magnitude of the punishment for an offence should be in proportion, not to the harm done to the victim, but to the power wielded by the victim, is a neat bit of anti-uprising propaganda.
Learner
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The gnostics belief has an interesting take, in that, for many Christians, Yahweh is the 'messenger of the Lord', who had authority to pass judgement, in parts of the old testament, who was NOT the father! (may provide the answer to some questions, like 'no one had seen the Father's face and lived etc..)- (Jesus will be judge again, in the end of days).
The gnostics version identifies there being two entities also! 'However... according to them (the gnostics) Yahweh is instead, an evil 'demi-god who created this world: but is not the the Father. It's been an interesting belief for many Christians, because this distorted gnostic narrative is similar to the Christian convention. The gnostics version of Yahweh although having some parallel to Christ, being creator of this world (as written in John)... has some underlay in the gnostic twisting - as being rather... anti-Jesus/or anti-christ underneath. A conspiracy if you will.
