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Morality in Bible stories that you don't understand

Thomas II said:
Learner said:
Cow Power definitely is a good idea.

https://suscon.org/project/cow-power/

(Also posted in the renewable energy section just in case... being more appropriate for this particular discussion topic
https://iidb.org/threads/the-remarkable-progress-of-renewable-energy.13135/post-1115994 )
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But what was YHWH's intention, the purpose, when he told Ezekiel to use dung to cook his bread?
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The symbolic purpose was to teach Israel that they too would eat unclean food, as the human excrement would defile the food.
 
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And so we get to Ezekiel 37...

The Valley of Dry Bones​

37 The hand of the Lord was on me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the Lord and set me in the middle of a valley; it was full of bones. 2 He led me back and forth among them, and I saw a great many bones on the floor of the valley, bones that were very dry. 3 He asked me, “Son of man, can these bones live?”

I said, “Sovereign Lord, you alone know.”

4 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to these bones and say to them, ‘Dry bones, hear the word of the Lord! 5 This is what the Sovereign Lord says to these bones: I will make breath[a] enter you, and you will come to life. 6 I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the Lord.’”

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8 I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them.

9 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Come, breath, from the four winds and breathe into these slain, that they may live.’” 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet—a vast army.

11 Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the people of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. 13 Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. 14 I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’”

:oops:

What's going on here?
 
Thomas II said:
And so we get to Ezekiel 37...

The Valley of Dry Bones​

37 The hand of the Lord was on me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the Lord and set me in the middle of a valley; it was full of bones. 2 He led me back and forth among them, and I saw a great many bones on the floor of the valley, bones that were very dry. 3 He asked me, “Son of man, can these bones live?”

I said, “Sovereign Lord, you alone know.”

4 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to these bones and say to them, ‘Dry bones, hear the word of the Lord! 5 This is what the Sovereign Lord says to these bones: I will make breath[a] enter you, and you will come to life. 6 I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the Lord.’”

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8 I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them.

9 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Come, breath, from the four winds and breathe into these slain, that they may live.’” 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet—a vast army.

11 Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the people of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. 13 Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. 14 I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’”

:oops:

What's going on here?
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Prophecy of the return to Judah from the Babylonian Exile.
 
"In antiquity, south-eastern Canaan was a very important center for copper smelting. While it is likely that there existed a patron deity of metallurgy, the identity of the Canaanite god of smelting remains unknown. Although some biblical writings suggest a south Canaanite origin of Yahweh, no details are provided concerning his worship prior to him becoming the god of Israel. This study explores whether Yahweh was formerly the Canaanite god of metallurgy. The following observations corroborate this hypothesis: (1) Yahweh was worshiped by the Edomites, and especially by the Kenites, a small tribe regarded as the Canaanite smelters; (2) the Israelite cult of Yahweh was associated with copper and with a bronze serpent, a typical symbol of metallurgy; (3) the melting of copper is considered in Exodus 4 as the specific sign of Yahweh; (4) a parallel exists between Yahweh and the god of metallurgy worshiped in Egypt (Ptah), Mesopotamia (Ea/Enki) and Elam (Napir), all of them being a mysterious lonely deity; (5) fighting the (other) gods is common to Yahwism and to ancient metallurgical traditions. These data suggest that, before becoming publicly worshipped in Israel, Yahweh was formerly the god of the Canaanite guild of metallurgists."
 
https://www.thetorah.com/article/yhwh-the-kenite-god-of-metallurgy

YHWH: The Kenite God of Metallurgy​


"The Bible describes YHWH as glowing (kabod), and YHWH’s heat as melting mountains, imagery connected with volcano gods, the divine patrons of metalworkers such as the Kenites, who lived in the Negev region. Indeed, the description of Israel’s encounter with YHWH at Sinai portrays a volcanic eruption, with smoke “as if from a furnace” (Exodus 19:18).
Dr.Nissim Amzallag
Scholars have long supposed that YHWH was formerly an ancestral god, “the god of the fathers,” who provided protection, fertility, and rain to the clan worshipping him, and whose dominion was eventually understood to extend to the whole earth as Israelite religion developed.[1] This view derives in part from the explicit biblical portrait of YHWH as the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the agropastoralist lifestyle of these ancestral figures. This reconstruction, however, overlooks an essential aspect of YHWH’s early history."

A Volcanic Theophany​

"In the biblical narrative, YHWH transforms the Israelites into his people at the revelation at Sinai (Exod 19:5–6). This revelation is accompanied by what many biblical scholars and geologists have long identified as the successive phases of a volcanic eruption:[2]
‏שׁמות יט:טז ...וַיְהִי קֹלֹת וּבְרָקִים וְעָנָן כָּבֵד עַל הָהָר וְקֹל שֹׁפָר חָזָק מְאֹד וַיֶּחֱרַד כָּל הָעָם אֲשֶׁר בַּמַּחֲנֶה....
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Exod 19:16 There were noises (thunders) and lightnings and a thick cloud on the mountain and a very loud shofar blast, so that all the people in the camp trembled….
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יט:יח וְהַר סִינַי עָשַׁן כֻּלּוֹ מִפְּנֵי אֲשֶׁר יָרַד עָלָיו יְ־הוָה בָּאֵשׁ וַיַּעַל עֲשָׁנוֹ כְּעֶשֶׁן הַכִּבְשָׁן וַיֶּחֱרַד כָּל הָהָר מְאֹד.
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19:18 Now Mount Sinai was in smoke because YHWH had descended on it in fire. The smoke of it went up like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain trembled greatly.
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Some commentators have argued that verse 16 describes a thunderstorm,[3] and that either these verses stem from different sources, with the difference conceptions of the event,[4] or that thunderstorm imagery has been artificially combined with volcanic imagery to stress the miraculous dimension of the event.[5] But these interpretations are unnecessary since thunder and lightning are components of a volcanic eruption. Indeed, even rain and hailstorms are frequently provoked by volcanic eruptions, a phenomenon known as wet volcanism.
In Exodus, the elements of fire and smoke are accompanied by tremors—the shaking of the mountain described above. The tremors, essentially mini-earthquakes, are characteristics of volcanic eruptions, and provoke the release of hot gasses from the fissures. This release produces a loud noise, here, in the Sinai theophany, called a “loud shofar blast.”[6]
This volcanic dimension of revelation also appears in the account of the Horeb revelation in Deuteronomy, which specifies that YHWH spoke from fire and smoke—i.e., from within the crater of the volcano—during the eruption:
‏דברים ד:יא וַתִּקְרְבוּן וַתַּעַמְדוּן תַּחַת הָהָר וְהָהָר בֹּעֵר בָּאֵשׁ עַד לֵב הַשָּׁמַיִם חֹשֶׁךְ עָנָן וַעֲרָפֶל. ד:יב וַיְדַבֵּר יְ־הוָה אֲלֵיכֶם מִתּוֹךְ הָאֵשׁ קוֹל דְּבָרִים אַתֶּם שֹׁמְעִים וּתְמוּנָה אֵינְכֶם רֹאִים זוּלָתִי קוֹל.
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Deut 4:11 And you came near and stood at the foot of the mountain, while the mountain burned with fire to the heart of heaven, wrapped in darkness, cloud, and fog. 4:12 Then YHWH spoke to you out of the midst of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice.
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The flowing lava is not mentioned here, but in the song of Deborah, the entire event is referred to as liquefaction of Mount Sinai by the presence of YHWH:
‏שׁפטים ה:ה הָרִים נָזְלוּ מִפְּנֵי יְ־הוָה זֶה סִינַי מִפְּנֵי יְ־הוָה אֱלֹהֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל.
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Judg 5:5 The mountains melted (nazlu) to YHWH, Sinai before YHWH the God of Israel.
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In sum, the memory of YHWH’s revelation at a mountain, whether called Sinai or Horeb, pictures the event as a volcanic eruption."

Not Just a Literary Feature​

"Considering that no active volcano is known to exist on the Sinai Peninsula, some scholars have suggested seeing these features as serving a literary purpose, presenting the event’s exceptionality and the overwhelming powers of the deity self-revealing to the Israelites.[7] It is, however, important to note that YHWH’s volcanic dimension is not limited to retellings of the Sinai theophany. Disparate passages connect YHWH to volcanic imagery:
Melting Mountains—Psalmists call upon YHWH to come and melt the mountains by his mere presence (Pss 46:7; 97:5;).
תהלים מו:ז הָמוּ גוֹיִם מָטוּ מַמְלָכוֹת נָתַן בְּקוֹלוֹ תָּמוּג אָרֶץ.
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Ps 46:7 Nations rage, kingdoms topple; at the sound of his thunder the earth dissolves.
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תהלים צז:ב עָנָן וַעֲרָפֶל סְבִיבָיו צֶדֶק וּמִשְׁפָּט מְכוֹן כִּסְאוֹ. צז:ג אֵשׁ לְפָנָיו תֵּלֵךְ וּתְלַהֵט סָבִיב צָרָיו. צז:ד הֵאִירוּ בְרָקָיו תֵּבֵל רָאֲתָה וַתָּחֵל הָאָרֶץ. צז:ה הָרִים כַּדּוֹנַג נָמַסּוּ מִלִּפְנֵי יְ־הוָה מִלִּפְנֵי אֲדוֹן כָּל הָאָרֶץ.
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Ps 97:2 Dense clouds are around him, righteousness and justice are the base of his throne. 97:3 Fire is his vanguard, burning his foes on every side. 97:4 His lightnings light up the world; the earth is convulsed at the sight; 97:5 mountains melt like wax at YHWH’s presence, at the presence of the Lord of all the earth.[8]
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Destructive Power—Prophets warn the people of imminent mass destruction inherent in YHWH’s volcanic activity:

מיכה א:ג כִּי הִנֵּה יְ־הוָה יֹצֵא מִמְּקוֹמוֹ וְיָרַד וְדָרַךְ עַל (במותי) [בָּמֳתֵי] אָרֶץ. א:ד וְנָמַסּוּ הֶהָרִים תַּחְתָּיו וְהָעֲמָקִים יִתְבַּקָּעוּ כַּדּוֹנַג מִפְּנֵי הָאֵשׁ כְּמַיִם מֻגָּרִים בְּמוֹרָד.
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Mic 1:3 For lo! YHWH is coming forth from his dwelling-place, he will come down and stride upon the heights of the earth. 1:4 The mountains shall melt under him and the valleys burst open— like wax before fire, like water cascading down a slope.
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נחום א:ה הָרִים רָעֲשׁוּ מִמֶּנּוּ וְהַגְּבָעוֹת הִתְמֹגָגוּ וַתִּשָּׂא הָאָרֶץ מִפָּנָיו וְתֵבֵל וְכָל יֹשְׁבֵי בָהּ. א:ו לִפְנֵי זַעְמוֹ מִי יַעֲמוֹד וּמִי יָקוּם בַּחֲרוֹן אַפּוֹ חֲמָתוֹ נִתְּכָה כָאֵשׁ וְהַצֻּרִים נִתְּצוּ מִמֶּנּוּ.
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Nah 1:5 The mountains quake because of Him, and the hills melt. The earth heaves before Him, the world and all that dwell therein. 1:6 Who can stand before His wrath? Who can resist His fury? His anger pours out like fire, and rocks are shattered because of Him.[9]
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As these texts show, volcanism seems to be an essential attribute typically associated with YHWH. The account of the Sinai revelation, with its volcanic imagery, is meant to show that YHWH himself, and not simply a divine emissary, was present during the revelation, and concluded himself the covenant transforming the Israelites into his people."

A Midianite Origin for YHWH?​

"Considering that, like the Sinai, volcanic activity is not attested in Israel either, some scholars have looked farther afield, and suggest that YHWH was formerly worshipped in northwestern Arabia, where a volcanic field is attested as having been active for millennia. Some even argue that Mount Sinai should be identified with one of the volcanoes on this peninsula, to which the Israelites would have gone when they left Egypt.[10] Jacob Dunn goes so far as to suggest that YHWH was formerly an Arabian volcano god.[11] All this connects to what scholars call the Midianite origin hypothesis for the cult of YHWH in Israel.[12]

This hypothesis is based on biblical hints that place the discovery of YHWH by Moses in Midian (Exodus 3:1–6), by the mountain of God located close to Jethro’s dwelling, to which God tells Moses to bring the Israelites to serve him after they leave Egypt (Exod 3:12). Moreover, Moses’ father-in-law is described as a “priest of Midian” (Exod 2:16, 18:1), implying that Moses may have learned local religious doctrine from him.[13]"

A Kenite Deity​

"Other texts refer to Moses’ father-in-law as Kenite,[14] a group of whom settle in the land along with the Israelites and are allied to them.[15] Indeed, Cain, the eponymous ancestor of the Kenites, becomes a part of the biblical primordial history, and YHWH’s participation in his birth (Gen 4:1) attests the closeness of this tribe/congregation to him, at least before the rise of Israel. The mention of Cain as the first man to make an offering to YHWH (Gen 4:3) strengthens this premise.

The connection of YHWH with the Midianites may justify the exploitation of the volcanic imagery by the Israelites for accounting for the divine presence, but the connection of YHWH specifically to the Kenites challenges the assumption of an Arabian origin of YHWH, and points us in a different direction, given the Kenites’ metallurgical activity.[16]"

A God of Metallurgy​

"The Kenites appear to have been a society of metalworkers. The story of Cain in Genesis 4 describes how one of his descendants, Tubal-Cain “forged all implements of copper and iron” (לֹטֵשׁ כָּל חֹרֵשׁ נְחֹשֶׁת וּבַרְזֶל), i.e., he is described as a smith, the craftsman producing implements from raw metal. Indeed, the Semitic cognates קין (Arabic قين, Syriac ܩܝܢܝܐ, Aramaic קֵינָאָה) suggest that the root ק.י.נ designated activities belonging to the field of metallurgy, smelting (metal production from ore) and smithing (the working of raw metal).[17]

Cain himself, then, rather than his descendant Tubal-Cain, should be understood as once having played the role of the forefather of metallurgy and the South-Levantine society of metalworking Kenites, both smiths and smelters, i.e., producers of the raw metal from ore. This helps explain their connection to YHWH, a deity with volcanic attributes.

In antiquity, volcanoes were typically identified with the gods sponsoring metallurgy. For example, Hephaestus was called the “prince of Etna” in ancient Greece, and the term “volcano” derives from Vulcain, the name of the divine patron of the metallurgists at Rome.[18]

The association between volcanoes and smelting is easy to understand. Both volcanoes and furnaces release a similar sulfurous smell and smoke. In antiquity, smelting (metal production from ore) was the only human activity involving stone melting. Just as lava flows out of a volcano, slag flows out of an active furnace, and the slag, once solidified, resembles volcanic stones (basalt). This homology is visible in the description of the Sinai revelation, where the column of smoke rising from Sinai is likened כְּעֶשֶׁן הַכִּבְשָׁן “with the smoke of a furnace” (Exod 19:18)."
 
Sexual liaisons in The Garden /Genesis...

How many children did YHWH have?
Who was his wife?
Was the original sin a "sexual sin"?
Did Eve have sex with the serpent? Did Eve have sex with one of the Elohim? Was the serpent Samael (fallen angel)? Was Cain the fruit of that union?

 
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''For truly in this city there were gathered together against Thy holy servant Jesus, whom Thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Thy hand and Thy purpose predestined to occur," (Acts 4:27-28).

''But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’' Romans 9:21
 
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