More Trouble In Israel

[Elixir]

https://www.nps.gov/bela/learn/historyculture/the-bering-land-bridge-theory.htm

According to this, all of the American continents are Russian territory.
Tom

Sure, I want to reclaim Great Lakes.

After what y'all did to the Aral Sea, nobody is going to let you near any major fresh water body.

 

[barbos]

https://www.nps.gov/bela/learn/historyculture/the-bering-land-bridge-theory.htm

According to this, all of the American continents are Russian territory.
Tom

Sure, I want to reclaim Great Lakes.

Good luck.

Heck, the Iroquois can't even get the USA government to honor treaties signed by the USA government.
Tom

Iroquois don't have nukes.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Evictions?

The usual reason for evictions in Jerusalem is Jews reclaiming property they were ethnically cleansed from--why is the ethnic cleansing acceptable but undoing it wrong?

Do you support Palestinians reclaiming property they were ethnically cleansed from, Loren?

You realize that most of that "ethnic cleansing" you refer to is people who left of their own free will before there were any hostilities? There are some that actually were expelled and I support compensation for them--but only as part of an overall compensation for all of those expelled. Hint: Vastly more Jews were expelled than Muslims.

I mean, if you're going to be joining us human rights advocates (HRWs?), you're going to have to advocate for everyone's rights equally.

Or are you going to argue that Jewish Israelis and Palestinians are so different, saying one group has human rights implies the others aren't human?

HRW is the one that doesn't support all groups.

Evictions?

The usual reason for evictions in Jerusalem is Jews reclaiming property they were ethnically cleansed from--why is the ethnic cleansing acceptable but undoing it wrong?

No.

THIS is ethnic cleansing.

And it has been going on for decades.

It's ethnic cleansing for the owner of a piece of property to expel squatters??

Most of the people who were cleansed in 48 were able to reclaim their property in 67. There have been a trickle of cases in the courts ever since and the reports keep ignoring what's actually going on. Note that it's not Arabs in general being expelled--the Arab population of Jerusalem has been going up.

 

[untermensche]

Most of the people who were cleansed in 48 were able to reclaim their property in 67....

Not true at all.

And the cleansing of Palestinians from lands they occupied in 1967 has been going on non-stop the past few decades.

 

[Arctish]

You realize that most of that "ethnic cleansing" you refer to is people who left of their own free will before there were any hostilities? There are some that actually were expelled and I support compensation for them--but only as part of an overall compensation for all of those expelled. Hint: Vastly more Jews were expelled than Muslims.

I mean, if you're going to be joining us human rights advocates (HRWs?), you're going to have to advocate for everyone's rights equally.

Or are you going to argue that Jewish Israelis and Palestinians are so different, saying one group has human rights implies the others aren't human?

HRW is the one that doesn't support all groups.

Evictions?

The usual reason for evictions in Jerusalem is Jews reclaiming property they were ethnically cleansed from--why is the ethnic cleansing acceptable but undoing it wrong?

No.

THIS is ethnic cleansing.

And it has been going on for decades.

It's ethnic cleansing for the owner of a piece of property to expel squatters??

Most of the people who were cleansed in 48 were able to reclaim their property in 67. There have been a trickle of cases in the courts ever since and the reports keep ignoring what's actually going on. Note that it's not Arabs in general being expelled--the Arab population of Jerusalem has been going up.

Back up your claims, Loren.

Don't just repeat lies and long discredited arguments. Show people the numbers.

How many Jews were displaced from East Jerusalem? How many Palestinians were displaced from the rest of Jerusalem and from East Jerusalem in recent years? How many Jews who moved into East Jerusalem since the 1967 War were the ones who were displaced and their family members, and how many were recently arrived immigrants who never owned property there?

If you don't have any idea, maybe hold off on making claims until you know at least some of the facts. And please answer my question:

Do you support Palestinians reclaiming property from which they were ethnically cleansed?

 

[Trausti]

Most of the people who were cleansed in 48 were able to reclaim their property in 67....

Not true at all.

And the cleansing of Palestinians from lands they occupied in 1967 has been going on non-stop the past few decades.

And the cleansing of Greeks from the lands they occupied in the 15th century has been going non-stop, too.

 

[Arctish]

Most of the people who were cleansed in 48 were able to reclaim their property in 67....

Not true at all.

And the cleansing of Palestinians from lands they occupied in 1967 has been going on non-stop the past few decades.

And the cleansing of Greeks from the lands they occupied in the 15th century has been going non-stop, too.

Which is why it's important to stop ethnic cleansing and uphold the human rights of all people, everywhere.

Don't you agree, Trausti?

The only way these fights ever end is with fairness and justice for all, or genocide. Which do you prefer?

 

[Trausti]

And the cleansing of Greeks from the lands they occupied in the 15th century has been going non-stop, too.

Which is why it's important to stop ethnic cleansing and uphold the human rights of all people, everywhere.

Don't you agree, Trausti?

The only way these fights ever end is with fairness and justice for all, or genocide. Which do you prefer?

Or, why is there always a double-standard against Israel? Oh, right. Da joos.

 

[Arctish]

And the cleansing of Greeks from the lands they occupied in the 15th century has been going non-stop, too.

Which is why it's important to stop ethnic cleansing and uphold the human rights of all people, everywhere.

Don't you agree, Trausti?

The only way these fights ever end is with fairness and justice for all, or genocide. Which do you prefer?

Or, why is there always a double-standard against Israel? Oh, right. Da joos.

Yes, it's very important to eliminate double standards. That's part of uphold the human rights of all people, everywhere. Eliminating double standards is an essential component of fairness and justice for all.

So, are you in favor of eliminating double standards? Do you support Palestinians and Jewish Israelis reclaiming property from which they were ethnically cleansed in Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank?

 

[Swammerdami]

Evictions?

The usual reason for evictions in Jerusalem is Jews reclaiming property they were ethnically cleansed from--why is the ethnic cleansing acceptable but undoing it wrong?

Which ethnic cleansings? If you're speaking of conflicts during the 1940's, there were dispossessions by both sides.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How many Jews were displaced from East Jerusalem? How many Palestinians were displaced from the rest of Jerusalem and from East Jerusalem in recent years? How many Jews who moved into East Jerusalem since the 1967 War were the ones who were displaced and their family members, and how many were recently arrived immigrants who never owned property there?

If you don't have any idea, maybe hold off on making claims until you know at least some of the facts. And please answer my question:

Do you support Palestinians reclaiming property from which they were ethnically cleansed?

"East Jerusalem" (there isn't really such a place, it's just the part of Jerusalem on the other side of the armistice line) was completely cleansed of Jews in 48. Of course a whole bunch moved back in 67 when they could. And of course some of the arrivals weren't the original people--do the words "time" and "inheritance" mean anything to you? Most people cleansed in 48 are dead by now, the people reclaiming their property would be heirs.

And you won't care about sources because the only ones that are interested in the truth are Jewish, but anyway:

http://www.sixdaywar.org/content/jordanianocuupationjerusalem.asp

and about this case:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/09/...ourt-palestinian-families-east-jerusalem.html

Restrictions on building permits in East Jerusalem have forced Palestinian residents to either leave the city or to build illegal housing vulnerable to demolition orders.

Where else would it be acceptable to build illegally? It's not like they have to live there.

The dispute in Sheikh Jarrah originated in 1876 when the land was under Ottoman rule. That year, Palestinian landowners sold a plot in Sheikh Jarrah to two Jewish trusts, an Israeli court has ruled. The land houses the tomb of a revered Jewish priest from antiquity, Shimon HaTzadik.

Jordan captured the plot in the Arab-Israeli war of 1948 and built dozens of homes there to house some of the hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees who had fled from what became Israel.

After Israel captured East Jerusalem in 1967, it eventually returned ownership of the Sheikh Jarrah homes to the Jewish trusts. The trusts later sold it to right-wing settlers, who have tried to evict the residents ever since. Some families have already been forced out, while the others are in various stages of the court process.

Quite clear--they didn't own the land. Stolen property, it goes back to it's rightful owner.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Evictions?

The usual reason for evictions in Jerusalem is Jews reclaiming property they were ethnically cleansed from--why is the ethnic cleansing acceptable but undoing it wrong?

Which ethnic cleansings? If you're speaking of conflicts during the 1940's, there were dispossessions by both sides.

You don't realize Jordan ethnically cleansed the areas it captured in 1948??

And pointing out that there were incidents in the other direction does not excuse this one.

 

[Arctish]

"East Jerusalem" (there isn't really such a place, it's just the part of Jerusalem on the other side of the armistice line) was completely cleansed of Jews in 48. Of course a whole bunch moved back in 67 when they could. And of course some of the arrivals weren't the original people--do the words "time" and "inheritance" mean anything to you? Most people cleansed in 48 are dead by now, the people reclaiming their property would be heirs.

And you won't care about sources because the only ones that are interested in the truth are Jewish, but anyway:

http://www.sixdaywar.org/content/jordanianocuupationjerusalem.asp

and about this case:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/09/...ourt-palestinian-families-east-jerusalem.html

Thank you for the links. I will finish reading them before commenting on their contents.

Also, please stop lying about what sources of information I utilize. We both know I utilize Zionist sources like the Jewish Virtual Library and the Jerusalem Post so you can't whine about anti-Semitism every time you encounter a story you don't like.

Stolen property, it goes back to it's rightful owner.

Does that apply to property that was stolen from Palestinians? Do you support Palestinians reclaiming property from which they were ethnically cleansed?

 

[Swammerdami]

Evictions?

The usual reason for evictions in Jerusalem is Jews reclaiming property they were ethnically cleansed from--why is the ethnic cleansing acceptable but undoing it wrong?

... If you're speaking of conflicts during the 1940's, there were dispossessions by both sides.

... pointing out that there were incidents in the other direction does not excuse this one.

"What's mine is mine, and what's yours is negotiable" ?

Anyway, humanitarian values should be more important than disputed 75 year-old land deeds. Loren, what do you think about Israel's dispensation of Covid-19 vaccine? They have copious supplies, but prefer to send the vaccine to the African countries who've moved their tiny embassies to Jerusalem rather than to vaccinate Palestinians. They're now vaccinating Palestinians who come in regular contact with Jews, but general vaccination of their captive population would "reward terrorism."

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Evictions?

The usual reason for evictions in Jerusalem is Jews reclaiming property they were ethnically cleansed from--why is the ethnic cleansing acceptable but undoing it wrong?

Okay, here is the bit that bothers me, that was in Europe. I gotta think if those in charge back then knew what was coming, they would have picked Door 2 instead of Door 1.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

"East Jerusalem" (there isn't really such a place, it's just the part of Jerusalem on the other side of the armistice line) was completely cleansed of Jews in 48. Of course a whole bunch moved back in 67 when they could. And of course some of the arrivals weren't the original people--do the words "time" and "inheritance" mean anything to you? Most people cleansed in 48 are dead by now, the people reclaiming their property would be heirs.

And you won't care about sources because the only ones that are interested in the truth are Jewish, but anyway:

http://www.sixdaywar.org/content/jordanianocuupationjerusalem.asp

and about this case:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/09/...ourt-palestinian-families-east-jerusalem.html

Thank you for the links. I will finish reading them before commenting on their contents.

Also, please stop lying about what sources of information I utilize. We both know I utilize Zionist sources like the Jewish Virtual Library and the Jerusalem Post so you can't whine about anti-Semitism every time you encounter a story you don't like.

Stolen property, it goes back to it's rightful owner.

Does that apply to property that was stolen from Palestinians? Do you support Palestinians reclaiming property from which they were ethnically cleansed?

I've already expressed my position on this:

In most of the ethnic cleansing reclaiming the specific property isn't viable anymore, it should be handled by compensation instead. However, this should go both ways. Note that most of the Palestinians left of their own free will and then simply weren't allowed to return because they were supporting the enemy. I do not support compensation in those cases, only those that were forced out despite behaving peacefully--and note that most of the forcing came from the Arab nations. Far more compensation is owed to Jews than to Palestinians. As such, nothing is going to be done.

"East Jerusalem" is a special case--for the Jews to return to the land they originally owned is a practical solution as the area is under Jewish control.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

... pointing out that there were incidents in the other direction does not excuse this one.

"What's mine is mine, and what's yours is negotiable" ?

Anyway, humanitarian values should be more important than disputed 75 year-old land deeds. Loren, what do you think about Israel's dispensation of Covid-19 vaccine? They have copious supplies, but prefer to send the vaccine to the African countries who've moved their tiny embassies to Jerusalem rather than to vaccinate Palestinians. They're now vaccinating Palestinians who come in regular contact with Jews, but general vaccination of their captive population would "reward terrorism."

The Palestinian Authority has their own medical system and obtains their own vaccine supplies. They have previously rejected Covid vaccine from Israel.

And the last I knew the PA had more vaccine than it had people who want it.

 

[TomC]

"East Jerusalem" is a special case--for the Jews to return to the land they originally owned is a practical solution as the area is under Jewish control.

What does "originally owned" mean in this context?

Jews conquered the city around 3000 years ago. They lost it around 2500 years ago. They've never really owned it since.

The Romans crushed them around 2000 years ago. Muslims conquered it around 1500 years ago, and it remained Muslim for centuries and centuries, until a few decades ago. Then, the Christians helped the Jews conquer it again.

The fact is, Jerusalem was a Muslim city for far longer and more recently than any other culture in all of history.


A huge amount of the Americas would change hands if the people who occupied it millennia ago regained control.

Tom

 

[SLD]

Israel and Hamas Battling it Out: Why?



https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...ian-rockets-helps-netanyahu-hamas-ncna1266890

It seems to me that this guy has a point. Is it a coincidence that once Netanyahu's trial really gets moving, war comes about? Tail wagging the dog?

is this the first post on this subject? Couldn't find another. Odd.

 

[Derec]

Why? Because Hamas and Islamic Jihad are a bunch of Islamic terrorists that want to destroy Israel and murder Jews.
Hamas official reportedly urges people to ‘cut off the heads of Jews’



Israel has actually been very restrained in recent years even in light of nearly constant explosive balloon attacks and sporadic rocket attacks and cross-border raids. But when 1500 rockets, including longer range missiles aimed at Tel Aviv, are shot at it, can you blame them from firing back?

Several high ranking Hamas terrorists have been eliminated. Good riddance!!!

Hamas vows revenge after Israel kills top commander in Gaza airstrike

Furthermore, I consider that Gaza should be dealt with as Carthage was dealt with by Rome.