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More Trouble In Israel

Biden says Israel has right to defend itself, predicts Israeli-Palestinian violence will quell soon after Netanyahu talk - ABC7 Los Angeles
Speaking Wednesday for the first time since violence started flaring at the start of the week, Biden said he'd spoken at length to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu earlier in the day. He voiced confidence in a swift end to the hostilities.

"My expectation and hope is this will be closing down sooner than later," Biden said at the White House. "Israel has a right to defend itself when you have thousands of rockets flying into your territory."
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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Blanket statements like these w/ little context or acknowledgement of what precipitated this cycle of violence - namely, the expulsions of Palestinians and attacks on Al Aqsa - dehumanize Palestinians & imply the US will look the other way at human rights violations. It’s wrong." / Twitter
then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "By only stepping in to name Hamas’ actions - which are condemnable - & refusing to acknowledge the rights of Palestinians, Biden reinforces the false idea that Palestinians instigated this cycle of violence.

This is not neutral language. It takes a side - the side of occupation." / Twitter


Rep. Mark Pocan on Twitter: "We can't allow the forced displacement of Palestinians who have lived in Sheikh Jarrah for generations.

@RepMarieNewman & I led our colleagues urging @SecBlinken to demand Israel stop this displacement.

Even our allies must be held accountable for human rights violations. (link)" / Twitter
About a letter to the Sec'y of State signed by several Congresspeople, including AOC, RT, CB, IO, AP, PJ, and of course, MN & MP.
 
TomC said:
Israel controls the whole situation.

Israel could have made peace many times. But it chooses not to.

It chooses to oppress and steal instead.
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Zionists share plenty of blame.

But pretending that they're the only villains in this ugly story is also wrong and detrimental to the whole situation.

If Islamist leaders cared as much about their people as their power everyone could be living together in peace and prosperity. But they're not.
Tom
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Angry Islamists is the natural reaction to decades of oppression and continual threat.

And these attacks appear to be motivated mostly by political reasons within Israel.
 
Angry Islamists is the natural reaction to decades of oppression and continual threat.
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And angry Zionists are the natural reaction to military attacks and suicide bombers and Palestinian leaders claiming that "We will drive the Jews into the sea!".

I'm not justifying anybody here. There's plenty of blame to spread around. Islamic ideologues are about as ugly as Zionist ideologues.
Tom
 
TomC said:
Angry Islamists is the natural reaction to decades of oppression and continual threat.
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And angry Zionists are the natural reaction to military attacks and suicide bombers and Palestinian leaders claiming that "We will drive the Jews into the sea!".

I'm not justifying anybody here. There's plenty of blame to spread around. Islamic ideologues are about as ugly as Zionist ideologues.
Tom
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Nonsense.

There was no organized violence from the Palestinians for a decade after the sick oppression started.

There is nothing the Palestinians can do to stop the constant theft of their lands as recognized in UN Resolutions.

Peace or war it doesn't matter. The constant theft goes on.
 
TomC said:
Angry Islamists is the natural reaction to decades of oppression and continual threat.
Click to expand...

And angry Zionists are the natural reaction to military attacks and suicide bombers and Palestinian leaders claiming that "We will drive the Jews into the sea!".

I'm not justifying anybody here. There's plenty of blame to spread around. Islamic ideologues are about as ugly as Zionist ideologues.
Tom
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yeah, the "other cultures" were nomadic... kinda caused a problem for the "ark".
 
TomC said:
The State of Israel was founded by Jews who wanted a place to live where they would not have neighbors who hate them.
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This is so clearly false!

The Jews didn't found the Zionist state. Western powers, fresh off WWII did.
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Totally absurd. Zionism started in the late 19th cy., and Jews started going to Palestine around then. Since they arrived from several places, they had the problem of what common language to use. They settled on reviving the Hebrew language, and Eliezer Ben Yehuda (1858-1922) was a big promoter of that effort, inventing numerous Hebrew words for things of the present-day world.  Revival of the Hebrew language -  Eliezer Ben-Yehuda

Zionists advertised their destination as "a land without a people for a people without a land", even though there were large numbers of people already there.

This was before World War I, when Israel/Palestine was still ruled by the Ottoman Empire.

During that war, two diplomats met and proposed a division of that empire among Britain and France: the Sykes-Picot Treaty.

Afterward, the British gov't issued the Balfour Declaration, calling Palestine the national home of the Jewish people, even though it also promised Arabs their own nations.

Jews kept coming in, and they did things like buy land from Arab landowners and kick off those landowners' tenants. They also organized their own militias to fight off the Arabs.

Between the two World Wars, the British authorities of British-Mandate Palestine tried to make both sides happy, but pleased neither side.

During WWII, the Zionists stopped fighting Britain, and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was good buddies with Adolf Hitler.

After that war, some of the more militant Zionists besieged and terrorized the British authorities, and they cowered in a compound that became nicknamed "Bevingrad". In 1948, the United Nations took on this issue, and it proposed a solution that seems worthy of King Solomon: divide the land in two, with the Jews having some parts and the Arabs having some other parts. Jerusalem would belong to neither side. In their map, the Arabs would have an enlarged West Bank that surrounded Jerusalem, an enlarged Gaza Strip, and northern Palestine.

The Zionist authorities agreed to it, but the Arabs didn't, and when the Zionists declared independence as the State of Israel, that nation's neighbors invaded it and hoped to crush it. The head of the Arab League bragged about how the war would result in the biggest massacres since the Mongols. But the Arabs failed miserably, and the Arabs lost northern Israel, with the West Bank and the Gaza Strip getting their present borders. Some sizable fraction of the Arab population of Palestine fled their homeland and ended up in refugee camps.
 
There were different kinds of Zionists.

Many Zionists only wanted a place Jews could freely migrate to.

They wanted a secular government and nation.

But many Zionists were religious fundamentalists and they won out.
 
In 1948, the United Nations took on this issue, and it proposed a solution that seems worthy of King Solomon: divide the land in two, with the Jews having some parts and the Arabs having some other parts. Jerusalem would belong to neither side. In their map, the Arabs would have an enlarged West Bank that surrounded Jerusalem, an enlarged Gaza Strip, and northern Palestine.

The Zionist authorities agreed to it, but the Arabs didn't,
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This is rather the point. In 1948, Christian powers decided to create Israel. They'd been accustomed, for centuries, to deciding what to do with real estate that wasn't theirs.

It's called colonialism. And it's caused a lot of problems.

The indigenous people of the Holy Land didn't want a Jewish government. Kinda dumb, IMHO, since Jewish culture was much better than Islamic culture. Better roads, better schools, better clinics, better markets, better democracy, the list is near endless.

Jewish culture and society and government are so much better than Muslim it's hard to quantify. But anyone could ask themselves a question, "Would you rather live in Egypt or Mexico?"
Tom
 
Jason Campbell on Twitter: "Newsmax host: "If you are Jewish and you are a Democrat and you are living in America today, how do you support an administration that turns its back on your home country?" (link)" / Twitter
then
Jake Tapper on Twitter: "I don’t belong to any political party but I am Jewish and newsflash: my home country is the United States. To suggest otherwise is bigotry." / Twitter


Rep. Ocasio-Cortez Gives Speech in Support of Palestinian Rights - YouTube
"On the evening of Thursday, May 13th, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez joined several Members during a special order hour led by Representatives Mark Pocan and Marie Newman to discuss the violence in Palestine & Israel."

Nice speech by her.

People for Bernie on Twitter: ""This is our businesses. The United States must acknowledge its role in the injustice and human rights violations of Palestinians. This is not about both sides. This is about an imbalance of power." @AOC tonight on the House floor (vid link)" / Twitter

Jacob Kornbluh on Twitter: ".@AOC in a speech on House floor: "This is not about both sides. This is about an imbalance of power." AOC adds: "The president stated that Israel has a right to self-defense... But do Palestinians have a right to survive?" (vid link)" / Twitter

Jacob Kornbluh on Twitter: "AOC says: "We are scared to stand up to the incarceration of children in Palestine because maybe it'll force us to confront the incarceration of children here on our border."" / Twitter

Waleed Shahid on Twitter: "Powerful words from @AyannaPressley: "We cannot remain silent when our government sends $3.8 billion of military aid to Israel that is used to demolish Palestinian homes, imprison Palestinian children, and displace Palestinian families. A budget is a reflection of our values." (vid link)" / Twitter

Waleed Shahid on Twitter: ""The President and many other figures stated that Israel has a right to self-defense...but do Palestinians have a right to survive? Do we believe that? And if so, we have a responsibility to that as well." -@AOC (vid link)" / Twitter

Waleed Shahid on Twitter: "“I was raised in one of the most beautiful, Blackest cities in Americas — where movements for civil rights and social justice were birthed: the city of Detroit. So I can’t stand silent when injustice exists." -@RashidaTlaib (vid link)" / Twitter

Waleed Shahid on Twitter: ""When we say Israel has the right to self-defense, how can we ignore the home demolitions, settlement violence, and forced annexation of Palestinian land that is happening?" -@IlhanMN (vid link)" / Twitter

Waleed Shahid on Twitter: ""We must acknowledge and condemn the disproportionate discrimination and treatment that Palestinians face versus others in this region...the dehumanization...by having roads that are separate for some people which all too often looks like a former South Africa." -@repmarkpocan (vid link)" / Twitter

Waleed Shahid on Twitter: ""The Biden administration, through @JakeSullivan46, has also conveyed its...concern about the evictions and has urged the administration to remain heavily involved to address the root causes of this violence, incl. ongoing evictions, displacement, and occupation." -@JanSchakowsky https://t.co/yXh7R4lgIa" / Twitter
 
TomC said:
In 1948, the United Nations took on this issue, and it proposed a solution that seems worthy of King Solomon: divide the land in two, with the Jews having some parts and the Arabs having some other parts. Jerusalem would belong to neither side. In their map, the Arabs would have an enlarged West Bank that surrounded Jerusalem, an enlarged Gaza Strip, and northern Palestine.

The Zionist authorities agreed to it, but the Arabs didn't,
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This is rather the point. In 1948, Christian powers decided to create Israel. They'd been accustomed, for centuries, to deciding what to do with real estate that wasn't theirs.

It's called colonialism. And it's caused a lot of problems.

The indigenous people of the Holy Land didn't want a Jewish government. Kinda dumb, IMHO, since Jewish culture was much better than Islamic culture. Better roads, better schools, better clinics, better markets, better democracy, the list is near endless.

Jewish culture and society and government are so much better than Muslim it's hard to quantify. But anyone could ask themselves a question, "Would you rather live in Egypt or Mexico?"
Tom
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false dichotomy.
 
 
TomC said:
"East Jerusalem" is a special case--for the Jews to return to the land they originally owned is a practical solution as the area is under Jewish control.
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What does "originally owned" mean in this context?

Jews conquered the city around 3000 years ago. They lost it around 2500 years ago. They've never really owned it since.

The Romans crushed them around 2000 years ago. Muslims conquered it around 1500 years ago, and it remained Muslim for centuries and centuries, until a few decades ago. Then, the Christians helped the Jews conquer it again.

The fact is, Jerusalem was a Muslim city for far longer and more recently than any other culture in all of history.


A huge amount of the Americas would change hands if the people who occupied it millennia ago regained control.

Tom
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You missed the context--this is land that was ethnically cleansed by Jordan in 1948. Before the war it was owned by Jews.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
TomC said:
"East Jerusalem" is a special case--for the Jews to return to the land they originally owned is a practical solution as the area is under Jewish control.
Click to expand...

What does "originally owned" mean in this context?

Jews conquered the city around 3000 years ago. They lost it around 2500 years ago. They've never really owned it since.

The Romans crushed them around 2000 years ago. Muslims conquered it around 1500 years ago, and it remained Muslim for centuries and centuries, until a few decades ago. Then, the Christians helped the Jews conquer it again.

The fact is, Jerusalem was a Muslim city for far longer and more recently than any other culture in all of history.


A huge amount of the Americas would change hands if the people who occupied it millennia ago regained control.

Tom
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You missed the context--this is land that was ethnically cleansed by Jordan in 1948. Before the war it was owned by Jews.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalek
or I could research......
 
Colin Kalmbacher on Twitter: "Rep. Ilhan Omar just called Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu an "ethno-nationalist" on the floor of the House." / Twitter
Rep. Ilhan Omar just called Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu an "ethno-nationalist" on the floor of the House.

Rep. Betty McCollum, who chairs the Appropriations Committee (which funds Israel's Iron Dome missile defense system), just said there is no diplomatic effort to end the occupation because Israel just wants to steal Palestinian land.

Rep. Ayanna Pressley just compared Israel's attacks on Al Aqsa to the use of nooses to terrorize Black Americans.

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez just now: "This is not about both sides. This is about a balance of power."

Notes that Israel refused to admit Omar and Rep. Rashida Tlaib into the country "because of who they were."

"We have to have the courage to name our contributions."

AOC: "Do Palestinians have a right to survive? Do we believe that?"

Rep. Cori Bush just now: "I and St. Louis rise in solidarity with the people of Palestine."

Bush is now remembering a Palestinian who led #BLM protests. She directly links the "heavily militarized" police state against Black Americans to weapons America funds and sends to Israel to repress the Palestinians. "In Palestine and in Ferguson we stand with you in solidarity."

Rep. Chuy Garcia wants human rights-based conditions on Israeli aid. Says Biden admin must revert to pre-Trump era stances on Israel and Palestine.

Rep. André Carson: "For decades, Israel has violated international law and human rights [by intentionally displacing Palestinians]. For too long, America has looked the other way as Israel has engaged in this horrific campaign against Palestinians."

Carson: "It's not about Jews vs. Muslims or Israel vs. its neighbors, it's about right vs. wrong."

Says the U.S. must enforce international law. Again goes after Israel's ethnic cleansing efforts in the Palestinian territories.

Carson: "Today we face an inflection point, a reckoning, of whether we will stand up for the values we claim to cherish."

Rep. Joaquin Castro calls Israel's response to Hamas "disproportionate" and says it is "exacerbating" the "cycle of violence. Wants Biden admin to force Israel to accept a cease-fire. "Creeping de facto annexation is unjust. The forced eviction of families in Jerusalem is wrong."

Castro specifically thanks Rep. Rashida Tlaib and says that Palestinian voices have been missing in Congress.

Earlier Tlaib said: "To read the statements from President Biden, Secretary Blinken, General Austin, and leaders of both parties, you'd hardly know Palestinians existed at all."

Thanks for reading along. Sorry for what was missed–tuned into the hearing a bit late but was put onto it by Rep. Omar's comms (@isaiah_bb). Rep. Pocan and Rep. Marie Newman put this together for the Progressive Caucus to address what's currently happening to the Palestinians.
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I'm sure that the speeches are on C-SPAN, but I'm too lazy to dig them up at this time.
 
TomC said:
This is rather the point. In 1948, Christian powers decided to create Israel. They'd been accustomed, for centuries, to deciding what to do with real estate that wasn't theirs.

It's called colonialism. And it's caused a lot of problems.

The indigenous people of the Holy Land didn't want a Jewish government. Kinda dumb, IMHO, since Jewish culture was much better than Islamic culture. Better roads, better schools, better clinics, better markets, better democracy, the list is near endless.

Jewish culture and society and government are so much better than Muslim it's hard to quantify. But anyone could ask themselves a question, "Would you rather live in Egypt or Mexico?"
Tom
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Both sides were indigenous. However, the government was Muslim, the Jews were second class citizens.

When things were partitioned it was mostly Jewish-majority areas to the Jews, Muslim-majority areas to the Muslims, although it wasn't exact because they wanted at least halfway sensible borders.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
TomC said:
"East Jerusalem" is a special case--for the Jews to return to the land they originally owned is a practical solution as the area is under Jewish control.
Click to expand...

What does "originally owned" mean in this context?

Jews conquered the city around 3000 years ago. They lost it around 2500 years ago. They've never really owned it since.

The Romans crushed them around 2000 years ago. Muslims conquered it around 1500 years ago, and it remained Muslim for centuries and centuries, until a few decades ago. Then, the Christians helped the Jews conquer it again.

The fact is, Jerusalem was a Muslim city for far longer and more recently than any other culture in all of history.


A huge amount of the Americas would change hands if the people who occupied it millennia ago regained control.

Tom
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You missed the context--this is land that was ethnically cleansed by Jordan in 1948. Before the war it was owned by Jews.
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Who owned it before the Jews conquered 3000 years ago? If you want to go back in history, you have to use more than just Jewish history.
 
TomC said:
Angry Islamists is the natural reaction to decades of oppression and continual threat.
Click to expand...

And angry Zionists are the natural reaction to military attacks and suicide bombers and Palestinian leaders claiming that "We will drive the Jews into the sea!".

I'm not justifying anybody here. There's plenty of blame to spread around. Islamic ideologues are about as ugly as Zionist ideologues.
Tom
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Agreed. Plenty of blame. There is no solution to this problem. And it will blow up every couple years. I do think that the Arabs in East Jerusalem should not be evicted. They've been there since 1948 or so. But no country would tolerate another country launching thousands of rockets into their country without a response.
 
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