More Trouble In Israel

[Arctish]

Israel and Hamas Battling it Out: Why?

Why?

That's like asking why the The Hundred Years' War went on for over a hundred years. It's because the issues being fought over haven't yet been resolved.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Some Palestinians insist on building rockets and launching them at Israel. The morons running Gaza do not bother to stop them, hunt down the missile factories and shut them down. The Israelis take that as an act of war and react in a most predictable manner. For Hamas and the missile makers, this is just stupid.

Perhaps the Palestinians tired of it all could vote in somebody who would root out the missile factories and the clowns who run them and stop the Israeli counter attacks. Even Joe Biden cannot stop this extreme stupidity.

 

[Jayjay]

This has all happened before. Israel's assholery in West Bank causes unrest. Hamas doesn't want to be left out, so it starts firing missiles. Israel retaliates. International community calls for restraint but does nothing. It goes on for a week or two until Hamas yields. Original issues are forgotten. Zionists are stronger in Israel, Hamas still in power in Gaza.

Casualties: a couple of Israelis, a couple of hundred Palestinians. Acceptable losses for both sides, so after a year or two when Hamas has replenished its arsenal they go at it again.

 

[laughing dog]

Given the history there, the OP question is misworded. It should read "Why not"?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Hamas' whole existence is about war. Without war they would lose their reason for existence and would lose power. Of course they prolong the fight at any cost.

When you look at the news there's no doubt some "cause." However, the responses to these "causes" are far too fast to be real, they plan what they're going to do and then implement them when they have something to pretend is the cause.

 

[Patooka]

Why? Because Hamas and Islamic Jihad are a bunch of Islamic terrorists that want to destroy Israel and murder Jews.
Hamas official reportedly urges people to ‘cut off the heads of Jews’



Israel has actually been very restrained in recent years even in light of nearly constant explosive balloon attacks and sporadic rocket attacks and cross-border raids. But when 1500 rockets, including longer range missiles aimed at Tel Aviv, are shot at it, can you blame them from firing back?

Several high ranking Hamas terrorists have been eliminated. Good riddance!!!

Hamas vows revenge after Israel kills top commander in Gaza airstrike

This is exactly the same rhetorical hyperbole you have spewed for years, so essentially, you're proving Rebecca Shimoni-Stoil's point in that the only thing has changed is the attitude towards recent elections

Furthermore, I consider that Gaza should be dealt with as Carthage was dealt with by Rome.

Yeah, I'm shocked Saudi Arabia's biggest supporter advocates ethnic genocide.

 

[untermensche]

Israel has been oppressing and stealing from Palestinians for decades.

Resistance to Israeli crimes and oppression is natural and normal.

But violence like this is totally because Israel wanted violence now.

Israel controls the whole situation.

Israel could have made peace many times. But it chooses not to.

It chooses to oppress and steal instead.

 

[funinspace]

It seems to me that this guy has a point. Is it a coincidence that once Netanyahu's trial really gets moving, war comes about? Tail wagging the dog?

This recent spike seems tied to the immanent eviction of a dozen or so Palestinians homes in East Jerusalem giving it to Israeli Jews, and their SC about to make a final decision...not sure if Netanyahu could arrange that timing. Same shit different month...

is this the first post on this subject? Couldn't find another. Odd.

Nope:
https://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?24007-More-Trouble-In-Israel

 

[Arctish]

Furthermore, I consider that Gaza should be dealt with as Carthage was dealt with by Rome.

Yeah, I'm shocked Saudi Arabia's biggest supporter advocates ethnic genocide.

This needs to be pointed out.

Derec is advocating genocide.

Let there be no question about that. The only question is, who's with him?

The Siege of Carthage was the main engagement of the Third Punic War fought between Carthage and Rome. It consisted of the nearly-three-year siege of the Carthaginian capital, Carthage (a little north east of modern Tunis. In 149 BC a large Roman army landed at Utica in North Africa. The Carthaginians hoped to appease the Romans, but despite the Carthaginians surrendering all of their weapons, the Romans pressed on to besiege the city of Carthage. The Roman campaign suffered repeated setbacks through 149 BC, only alleviated by Scipio Aemilianus, a middle-ranking officer, distinguishing himself several times. A new Roman commander took over in 148 BC, and fared equally badly. At the annual election of Roman magistrates in early 147 BC the public support for Scipio was so great that the usual age restrictions were lifted to allow him to be appointed commander in Africa.

Scipio's term commenced with two Carthaginian successes, but he tightened the siege and commenced a construction of a large mole to prevent supplies from getting into Carthage via blockade runners. The Carthaginians had partially rebuilt their fleet and it sortied, to the Romans surprise; after an indecisive engagement the Carthaginians mismanaged their withdrawal and lost many ships. The Romans then built a large brick structure in the harbour area which dominated the city wall. In the spring of 146 BC the Romans launched their final assault and over seven days systematically destroyed the city and killed its inhabitants; only on the last day did they take prisoners – 50,000, who were sold into slavery.

 

[Gospel]

I'd be with him if no innocent, men, women, and children would die as a result. Zoinks, that ship sailed a long time ago didn't it?

 

[SLD]

This needs to be pointed out.

Derec is advocating genocide.

Let there be no question about that. The only question is, who's with him?

The Siege of Carthage was the main engagement of the Third Punic War fought between Carthage and Rome. It consisted of the nearly-three-year siege of the Carthaginian capital, Carthage (a little north east of modern Tunis. In 149 BC a large Roman army landed at Utica in North Africa. The Carthaginians hoped to appease the Romans, but despite the Carthaginians surrendering all of their weapons, the Romans pressed on to besiege the city of Carthage. The Roman campaign suffered repeated setbacks through 149 BC, only alleviated by Scipio Aemilianus, a middle-ranking officer, distinguishing himself several times. A new Roman commander took over in 148 BC, and fared equally badly. At the annual election of Roman magistrates in early 147 BC the public support for Scipio was so great that the usual age restrictions were lifted to allow him to be appointed commander in Africa.

Scipio's term commenced with two Carthaginian successes, but he tightened the siege and commenced a construction of a large mole to prevent supplies from getting into Carthage via blockade runners. The Carthaginians had partially rebuilt their fleet and it sortied, to the Romans surprise; after an indecisive engagement the Carthaginians mismanaged their withdrawal and lost many ships. The Romans then built a large brick structure in the harbour area which dominated the city wall. In the spring of 146 BC the Romans launched their final assault and over seven days systematically destroyed the city and killed its inhabitants; only on the last day did they take prisoners – 50,000, who were sold into slavery.

I’ve been to Carthage. Seen it. Lovely ruins. You look across the bay at the mountains in the distance and that’s the view they saw before they killed their own children in sacrifice to Ba’al. And the ruins are inspiring. The Romans utterly destroyed the city. Little of the Punic city survives. It was rebuilt by the Romans a century later and those are the ruins you see. And it makes you think about the horrors they inflicted. Genocide and slavery. Delanda est Gaza? Seriously? I want the fighting to stop; I have no doubt there’s plenty of blame to go around. I support Israel. But I still say this is a diversion from Bibi’s trial. He has to go. And you don’t make peace with friends.

 

[ZiprHead]

Why? Because Hamas and Islamic Jihad are a bunch of Islamic terrorists that want to destroy Israel and murder Jews.
Hamas official reportedly urges people to ‘cut off the heads of Jews’



Israel has actually been very restrained in recent years even in light of nearly constant explosive balloon attacks and sporadic rocket attacks and cross-border raids. But when 1500 rockets, including longer range missiles aimed at Tel Aviv, are shot at it, can you blame them from firing back?

Several high ranking Hamas terrorists have been eliminated. Good riddance!!!

Hamas vows revenge after Israel kills top commander in Gaza airstrike

Furthermore, I consider that Gaza should be dealt with as Carthage was dealt with by Rome.

And many Israelis agree with you.

[TWEET]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Listen to these Israelis casually say they should “carpet bomb and kill Arabs.” These are fascists who support genocide, apartheid, and terrorism. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FreePalestine?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#FreePalestine</a> <a href="https://t.co/XXT1Y6XA5o">pic.twitter.com/XXT1Y6XA5o</a></p>— Ryan Knight ☭ #FreePalestine (@ProudSocialist) <a href="https://twitter.com/ProudSocialist/status/1393195002935881730?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 14, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/TWEET]

Why aren't the Israelis terrorists?

 

[TomC]

Israel controls the whole situation.

Israel could have made peace many times. But it chooses not to.

It chooses to oppress and steal instead.

Zionists share plenty of blame.

But pretending that they're the only villains in this ugly story is also wrong and detrimental to the whole situation.

If Islamist leaders cared as much about their people as their power everyone could be living together in peace and prosperity. But they're not.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

Duplicate threads merged.

 

[lpetrich]

The State of Israel was founded by Jews who wanted a place to live where they would not have neighbors who hate them. But that's what happened to them there -- they have neighbors who hate them, and sometimes for very good reason.

That aside, I can't be happy with many Arabs' response to the Zionist settlers and the State of Israel. Not being happy with anything less than driving those Zionists into the sea, as one Palestinian militant once said. They don't seem to have much of a tradition of nonviolent resistance, it must be noted.

 

[TomC]

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

I think Israel is an excellent country. I admire what Zionists did there.

I wish they'd moved here, to Indiana. I'm confident that Indiana would be a better place to live.


Palestinians, not so much.
Not that I have a problem with Islam, per se. It's the tendency of Muslims to support Islamism, an ideology that's anathema to my moral code.
Tom

 

[lpetrich]

Rashida Tlaib on Twitter: "Hundreds of Palestinians are on the verge of being kicked out of their homes by the Israeli government right now. Join me in demanding that Palestinians be able to remain on their own land. Sign petition to #StopJerusalemExpulsions & #SaveSheikhJarrah (link)" / Twitter

She recently appeared here: Is What's Happening in Jerusalem, Gaza Israeli 'Apartheid'? | The Mehdi Hasan Show - YouTube

Rep. Rashida Tlaib explains why she believes what's happening in the Palestinian territories is Israeli 'Apartheid', adding that the U.S. should condition aid to Israel. The Palestinian-American Congresswoman also shares what her family is experiencing on the ground there, and why the Palestinian people are scared.

Some politicians are showing willingness to criticize Israel's latest nastiness:

Bernie Sanders on Twitter: "The United States must speak out strongly against the violence by government-allied Israeli extremists in East Jerusalem and the West Bank, and make clear that the evictions of Palestinian families must not go forward." / Twitter

Senator Chris Van Hollen on Twitter: "As this makes clear, evictions of families in East Jerusalem would violate international law. If the Biden Administration puts the rule of law and human rights at the heart of its foreign policy, this is not a moment for tepid statements. (link)" / Twitter

Congresswoman Marie Newman on Twitter: "Palestinian families have every right to live in #SheikhJarrah.

I'm calling on the @StateDept to immediately condemn these violations of international law as Palestinians are forcibly being removed from their homes in East Jerusalem.

#SaveSheikhJarrah (link)" / Twitter

Elizabeth Warren on Twitter: "The forced removal of long-time Palestinian residents in Sheikh Jarrah is abhorrent and unacceptable. The Administration should make clear to the Israeli government that these evictions are illegal and must stop immediately. (link)" / Twitter
noting
Palestinians, Israeli settlers scuffle in east Jerusalem

Palestinians and Israeli settlers hurled rocks and chairs at each other in a tense east Jerusalem neighborhood on Thursday before Israeli police moved in to separate them, arresting at least seven people.

The violence broke out in Sheikh Jarrah, where dozens of Palestinians are at risk of being evicted following a long legal battle with Jewish settlers trying to acquire property in the neighborhood, which is just north of Jerusalem’s Old City.

 

[TomC]

The State of Israel was founded by Jews who wanted a place to live where they would not have neighbors who hate them.

This is so clearly false!

The Jews didn't found the Zionist state. Western powers, fresh off WWII did.

I think that the western powers did that mainly to get rid of Jews. But whatever, Jews didn't found any state.

And Jews obviously have been hated by the indigenous people of Israel for a long time. Whether justified or not, it's obvious that the Jewish immigrants weren't particularly welcome by the people who had lived there for 1500 years.

So, no, your post is entirely and demonstrably false. It isn't the whole story, but the part you wrote about is not true.
Tom

 

[lpetrich]

Nathan Thrall on Twitter: ""It's the height of racism," said a Sheikh Jarrah resident facing eviction. "Jews can get back their properties, but not the Arabs." The London-born deputy mayor of Jerusalem said this policy is necessary to preserve Israel's Jewish character. (link)" / Twitter
Evictions in Jerusalem Become Focus of Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - The New York Times - "The effort to evict six Arab families from a contested neighborhood has drawn attention to the Israeli effort to remove Palestinians from parts of East Jerusalem and led to protests."
With Google Translate, I translated into German what he might be thinking: Wir Juden brauchen hier Lebensraum ("We Jews need living space here").

Ilhan Omar on Twitter: "This deputy mayor is describing ethnic cleansing here, yet everyone is the West is pretending that’s not what’s happening to Palestinians.

It’s reprehensible." / Twitter


AJ+ on Twitter: "Israeli riot police have injured hundreds of Palestinians after they stormed the Al Aqsa Mosque in occupied East Jerusalem.

They fired stun grenades into prayer areas and physically assaulted journalists. The Red Crescent says it’s been prevented from accessing the area. (link)" / Twitter
then
Cori Bush on Twitter: "As someone who has been brutalized by police, I continue to stand in strong solidarity with Palestinians rising up against military, police, and state violence.

Congress must stop funding human rights abuses by the Israeli military." / Twitter


AJ+ on Twitter: "Israeli police fired at Palestinian protesters yesterday at Al-Aqsa Mosque. More than 200 people were injured. Protesters were showing support for Palestinian families facing eviction in occupied East Jerusalem.

The @UN has called Israel's forced evictions a potential war crime. (pic link)" / Twitter
then
Ayanna Pressley on Twitter: "I stand in solidarity with the Palestinian residents of Sheikh Jarrah in East Jerusalem who are being forcibly removed from their homes — in the middle of a pandemic, during Ramadan. This is unacceptable. (link)" / Twitter

 

[lpetrich]

Rep. Betty McCollum on Twitter: "Police violence against Palestinians in #SheikhJarrah who only want to remain in the homes they’ve lived in for generations is state-sponsored persecution. NO U.S. taxpayer dollars should support the annexation of Palestinian land or destruction of Palestinian homes. #HR2590" / Twitter

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "We stand in solidarity with the Palestinian residents of Sheikh Jarrah in East Jerusalem. Israeli forces are forcing families from their homes during Ramadan and inflicting violence.

It is inhumane and the US must show leadership in safeguarding the human rights of Palestinians." / Twitter


Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "From the paramilitary violence in Colombia and Shiekh Jarrah, to the detention of children on our own border and the militarization of US police departments, the United States must seriously assess its role in state violence and condition aid." / Twitter

Ilhan Omar on Twitter: "Many will tell you Israel has a right to defend itself, to safety and security, but are silent on whether Palestinians have those rights too.

Until we can defend the rights of Palestinians just as we do Israelis, we have no leg to stand on when it comes to justice or peace." / Twitter


Back to the Rashida Tlaib interview. She described how she would go with her grandmother through Israeli checkpoints, and she noted that the other Arabs aren't doing much for the Palestinians. She talked about conditioning aid on good behavior. She says that Israel's leaders don't want Palestinians to exist, that all Palestinians should be expelled.


Emily Ngo on Twitter: ".@AndrewYang’s public schedule today previously included a stop to distribute groceries in Astoria ahead of Eid, but it was removed. He said organizers asked him not to come. (link)" / Twitter
then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Utterly shameful for Yang to try to show up to an Eid event after sending out a chest-thumping statement of support for a strike killing 9 children, especially after his silence as Al-Aqsa was attacked.

But then to try that in Astoria? During Ramadan?! They will let you know." / Twitter

Mehdi Hasan on Twitter: ""The fundamental unavoidable reality at the heart of the [Israel-Palestine] conflict is that there is an asymmetry of power here. One side is the occupier. The other side is occupied." Me, tonight, on why we shouldn't just talk of 'clashes' in Jerusalem: (link)" / Twitter
then
Rep. Mark Pocan on Twitter: "Agreed.

We cannot just condemn rockets fired by Hamas and ignore Israel's state-sanctioned police violence against Palestinians—including unlawful evictions, violent attacks on protestors & the murder of Palestinian children.

U.S. aid should not be funding this violence." / Twitter