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More Trouble In Israel

Blah blah blah..
"Blah blah blah" is a good summary for your apologetics for the islamofascist terrorists of Hamas.

Take that map. Complete lies. In 1917, that territory wasn't "Palestine" in the sense we use the word today. The green area wasn't "Palestinian land" either. The 2nd map is the Partition Plan that the Arabs rejected and started a war against the newly founded State of Israel. The 3rd map doesn't show any "Palestinian Land" either as it was under Jordanian (Judea and Samaria) and Egyptian (Gaza Strip) control. In fact, the term "Palestinian" referring to an ethnic or national identity rather than as a purely geographic descriptor hadn't even been invented yet.
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From my reading Hamas didn't attack until after the Israelis stormed peaceful worshippers at the al Aqsa mosque and injured over 300 of them.

Even if that reading was accurate, how does that justify Hamas shooting >2000 rockets at Israeli civilians?
 
My sympathies are definitely with the tenants on this one.
Tenants who refuse to pay rent. I.e. illegal squatters. They should not get to live rent-free just because they have deranged friends who shoot thousands of rockets at a civilian population unless they do.
 
You are completely missing the point to your video. The guy is pointing out that Palestinians have deep roots in the region.
The regions of the Arabian peninsula and of Egypt. Not Israel.

That's very different from someone with deep roots in Europe or Russia or wherever. They might be Jewish, but they're not indigenous by any stretch of the imagination.
They are from Israel by way of Europe or Russia or wherever. And they went back and reestablished their homeland. They built a modern country out of the desert.


On the other hand, all Palestinian factions want is to destroy. Hamas even destroyed greenhouses Israelis left intact when they left the Gaza settlements.
 
Squad Derangement Syndrome (SDS) is running rampant on the extreme right...
To you anybody not on the left is "extreme right". And I have no SDS. I only brought them up because lpetrich keeps bringing them up.
 
Israel v Hamas.

Damn Squad!

The "Damn Squad" has been very vocal, including on the House floor, in their opposition to Israel and refusal to condemn Hamas shooting rockets at Israeli civilians. So they are on topic in this thread. Especially when lpetrich brings them up repeatedly.
 
Morally though? The Palestinian families have lived in the neighborhood for 70 years. Jewish nationalists who have never lived there want to kick them out for ideological reasons, using unfair Israeli laws. My sympathies are definitely with the tenants on this one.

So the Palestinians drag it out long enough and they get to keep it? This case has been in the courts for a long time.
 
If you kidnap me and hold me against my will and torture me for decades you do not get to cry about me hitting you over the head with a lamp as I try to escape your oppression.
Bad comparison. Hamas' actions are not helping them "escape oppression". In fact it makes the oppression worse, at least for the people in West Bank.

They are resisting oppression. The Boy Scouts do not rise up in the face of oppression. Very angry dangerous people arise within oppression.

They are trying to escape a powerful immoral monster.

But the monster is so much stronger the efforts seem futile.

Behaving peacefully has never once gained the Palestinians a thing.

Israel just keeps stealing land and throwing Palestinians out of their homes.

"Resistance" is all about somebody funding it, not about right or wrong. The truly oppressed peoples of the world do not resist.
 
From my reading Hamas didn't attack until after the Israelis stormed peaceful worshippers at the al Aqsa mosque and injured over 300 of them.

And the Jan 6 people were peacefully touring the capital.

(Hint: Any Palestinian action less than firearms or explosives will be reported as "peaceful".)
 
"Resistance" is all about somebody funding it, not about right or wrong. The truly oppressed peoples of the world do not resist.
Where do you come up with such nonsense?
(Hint: Any Palestinian action less than firearms or explosives will be reported as "peaceful".)
Do you think this up all by yourself or is there a propaganda site you use?
 
(Hint: Any Palestinian action less than firearms or explosives will be reported as "peaceful".)
Do you think this up all by yourself or is there a propaganda site you use?

He's not wrong.

What the Media Gets Wrong About Israel

Most consumers of the Israel story don’t understand how the story is manufactured. But Hamas does. Since assuming power in Gaza in 2007, the Islamic Resistance Movement has come to understand that many reporters are committed to a narrative wherein Israelis are oppressors and Palestinians passive victims with reasonable goals, and are uninterested in contradictory information. Recognizing this, certain Hamas spokesmen have taken to confiding to Western journalists, including some I know personally, that the group is in fact a secretly pragmatic outfit with bellicose rhetoric, and journalists—eager to believe the confession, and sometimes unwilling to credit locals with the smarts necessary to deceive them—have taken it as a scoop instead of as spin.

During my time at the AP, we helped Hamas get this point across with a school of reporting that might be classified as “Surprising Signs of Moderation” (a direct precursor to the “Muslim Brotherhood Is Actually Liberal” school that enjoyed a brief vogue in Egypt). In one of my favorite stories, “More Tolerant Hamas” (December 11, 2011), reporters quoted a Hamas spokesman informing readers that the movement’s policy was that “we are not going to dictate anything to anyone,” and another Hamas leader saying the movement had “learned it needs to be more tolerant of others.” Around the same time, I was informed by the bureau’s senior editors that our Palestinian reporter in Gaza couldn’t possibly provide critical coverage of Hamas because doing so would put him in danger.

In Gaza, this goes from being a curious detail of press psychology to a major deficiency. Hamas’s strategy is to provoke a response from Israel by attacking from behind the cover of Palestinian civilians, thus drawing Israeli strikes that kill those civilians, and then to have the casualties filmed by one of the world’s largest press contingents, with the understanding that the resulting outrage abroad will blunt Israel’s response. This is a ruthless strategy, and an effective one. It is predicated on the cooperation of journalists. One of the reasons it works is because of the reflex I mentioned. If you report that Hamas has a strategy based on co-opting the media, this raises several difficult questions, like, What exactly is the relationship between the media and Hamas? And has this relationship corrupted the media? It is easier just to leave the other photographers out of the frame and let the picture tell the story: Here are dead people, and Israel killed them.

When Hamas’s leaders surveyed their assets before this summer’s round of fighting, they knew that among those assets was the international press. The AP staff in Gaza City would witness a rocket launch right beside their office, endangering reporters and other civilians nearby—and the AP wouldn’t report it, not even in AP articles about Israeli claims that Hamas was launching rockets from residential areas. (This happened.) Hamas fighters would burst into the AP’s Gaza bureau and threaten the staff—and the AP wouldn’t report it. (This also happened.) Cameramen waiting outside Shifa Hospital in Gaza City would film the arrival of civilian casualties and then, at a signal from an official, turn off their cameras when wounded and dead fighters came in, helping Hamas maintain the illusion that only civilians were dying. (This too happened; the information comes from multiple sources with firsthand knowledge of these incidents.)
 
Israel v Hamas.

Damn Squad!

The "Damn Squad" has been very vocal, including on the House floor, in their opposition to Israel and refusal to condemn Hamas shooting rockets at Israeli civilians. So they are on topic in this thread. Especially when lpetrich brings them up repeatedly.

The issues between Israel and the Palestine predate "The Squad"... or the birth of anyone in "The Squad".
Doesn't mean they do not keep running their mouths over it, condemning Israel for defending itself from Islamic terrorism, while refusing to condemn Hamas for shooting >2000 rockets at Israeli civilians.

They are complicated,
In some ways, they are complicated, but in others, they are very simple. Hamas is evil. That's not complicated. Palestinian people are suffering because of Hamas and those like them.

Palestinians are third class citizens,
Israeli Arabs are regular citizens, Palestinians in Palestinian territories are not citizens of Israel at all. East Jerusalem is a weird in-between legal limbo.

Hamas will do whatever to stir the pot, natural resources are hoarded by the Israelis, Iran et al don't want anything resembling peace for the Palestinians, Israel hasn't had a government in a a couple years.
And the Palestinian president is in the 15 year of his 4 year term or something like that. :)
 
The AP staff in Gaza City would witness a rocket launch right beside their office, endangering reporters and other civilians nearby—and the AP wouldn’t report it, not even in AP articles about Israeli claims that Hamas was launching rockets from residential areas. (This happened.) Hamas fighters would burst into the AP’s Gaza bureau and threaten the staff—and the AP wouldn’t report it. (This also happened.)

And yet, AP is now lying, claiming they had no idea that the building was also used by Hamas ...
 
Stefanie Dekker on Twitter: "Oh my god. The building where al Jazeera’s office is housed has just been taken down by Israeli airstrikes. There was a warning and evacuated. It houses offices and private homes. I can’t believe it. (vid link)" / Twitter
Shows video of the building collapsing. It housed offices of the Associated Press, Al Jazeera, and apparently also Hamas.

Hamas is evidently so horrible that it is important to imitate it.

 2021 Israel–Palestine crisis
  • Israel: 11 killed, some 600 wounded/injured
  • Palestine: some 150 killed, some 1800 wounded/injured, some 10,000 displaced
That's a rather impressive kill ratio.

What Is Happening in Israel and Gaza? Here's What to Know. - The New York Times
Twenty-seven days before the first rocket was fired from Gaza this week, a squad of Israeli police officers entered the Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, brushed the Palestinian attendants aside and strode across its vast limestone courtyard. Then they cut the cables to the loudspeakers that broadcast prayers to the faithful from four medieval minarets.

It was the night of April 13, the first day of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. It was also Memorial Day in Israel, which honors those who died fighting for the country. The Israeli president was delivering a speech at the Western Wall, a sacred Jewish site that lies below the mosque, and Israeli officials were concerned that the prayers would drown it out.

...
That deterioration has been far more devastating, far-reaching and fast-paced than anyone imagined. It has led to the worst violence between Israelis and Palestinians in years — not only in the conflict with Hamas, which has killed at least 145 people in Gaza and 12 in Israel, but in a wave of mob attacks in mixed Arab-Jewish cities in Israel.

...
But in hindsight, the police raid on the mosque, one of the holiest sites in Islam, was one of several actions that led, less than a month later, to the sudden resumption of war between Israel and Hamas, the militant group that rules the Gaza Strip, and the outbreak of civil unrest between Arabs and Jews across Israel itself.
The article listed 145 killed in Gaza and 12 in Israel, a kill ratio of 12 to 1.
And it was the outgrowth of years of blockades and restrictions in Gaza, decades of occupation in the West Bank, and decades more of discrimination against Arabs within the state of Israel, said Avraham Burg, a former speaker of the Israeli Parliament and former chairman of the World Zionist Organization.

“All the enriched uranium was already in place,” he said. “But you needed a trigger. And the trigger was the Aqsa Mosque.”

...
Gaza was struggling to overcome a wave of coronavirus infections. Most major Palestinian political factions, including Hamas, were looking toward Palestinian legislative elections scheduled for March, the first in 15 years. And in Gaza, where the Israeli blockade has contributed to an unemployment rate of about 50 percent, Hamas’s popularity was dwindling as Palestinians spoke increasingly of the need to prioritize the economy over war.

...
A resurgent sense of national identity among young Palestinians found expression not only in resistance to a series of raids on Al Aqsa, but also in protesting the plight of six Palestinian families facing expulsion from their homes. The perceived need to placate an increasingly assertive far right gave Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel’s caretaker prime minister, little incentive to calm the waters.
 
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "This is happening with the support of the United States.
I don’t care how any spokesperson tries to spin this.
The US vetoed the UN call for ceasefire. If the Biden admin can’t stand up to an ally, who can it stand up to?
How can they credibly claim to stand for human rights?" / Twitter


Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Apartheid states aren’t democracies." / Twitter

The Associated Press on Twitter: "AP President and CEO Gary Pruitt says he's "shocked and horrified that the Israeli military would target and destroy the building housing AP’s bureau and other news organizations in Gaza." Pruitt says AP is seeking information from the Israeli government. (link)" / Twitter
noting
Statement: AP 'horrified' by Israeli attack on its office
The Israeli government says the building contained Hamas military intelligence assets. We have called on the Israeli government to put forward the evidence. AP’s bureau has been in this building for 15 years. We have had no indication Hamas was in the building or active in the building. This is something we actively check to the best of our ability. We would never knowingly put our journalists at risk.
Media demand Israel explain destruction of news offices
AP journalists and other tenants were safely evacuated from the 12-story al-Jalaa tower after the Israeli military warned of an imminent strike. Three heavy missiles hit the building within the hour, disrupting coverage of the ongoing conflict between’ Gaza’s Hamas rulers and Israel. At least 145 people in Gaza and eight in Israel have been killed since the fighting erupted on Monday night.

...
Mostefa Souag, acting director-general of Al-Jazeera Media Network, called the strike a “war crime” and a “clear act” to stop journalists from reporting on the conflict. Kuwait state television also had office space in the now-collapsed Gaza City building.

“The targeting of news organizations is completely unacceptable, even during an armed conflict. It represents a gross violation of human rights and internationally agreed norms,” Barbara Trionfi, the executive director of the International Press Institute, said.
 
Ibrahim on Twitter: "MSNBC’s @AliVelshi: “Palestinians are at best third-class citizens in the nation of their birth. The idea that it’s even remotely controversial to call what Israel has imposed on Palestinians a form of apartheid is laughable.” (vid link)" / Twitter

New York Times Opinion on Twitter: ""Israel has the absolute right to live in peace and security, but so do the Palestinians. I strongly believe that the United States has a major role to play in helping Israelis and Palestinians to build that future,” writes @BernieSanders. (link)" / Twitter
then
Opinion | Bernie Sanders: The Approach the Israel-Palestine Conflict Needs - The New York Times
... No one is arguing that Israel, or any government, does not have the right to self-defense or to protect its people. So why are these words repeated year after year, war after war? And why is the question almost never asked: “What are the rights of the Palestinian people?”

And why do we seem to take notice of the violence in Israel and Palestine only when rockets are falling on Israel?

...
Over more than a decade of his right-wing rule in Israel, Mr. Netanyahu has cultivated an increasingly intolerant and authoritarian type of racist nationalism. In his frantic effort to stay in power and avoid prosecution for corruption, Mr. Netanyahu has legitimized these forces, including Itamar Ben Gvir and his extremist Jewish Power party, by bringing them into the government. It is shocking and saddening that racist mobs that attack Palestinians on the streets of Jerusalem now have representation in its Knesset.

These dangerous trends are not unique to Israel. Around the world, in Europe, in Asia, in South America and here in the United States, we have seen the rise of similar authoritarian nationalist movements. These movements exploit ethnic and racial hatreds in order to build power for a corrupt few rather than prosperity, justice and peace for the many. For the last four years, these movements had a friend in the White House.
Like Ilhan Omar calling BN an ethnonationalist on the House floor. It's hard to avoid that description.

I found this fun curiosity:
Netanyahu’s embrace of ethno-nationalists endangers Jews in Europe - Israel News - Haaretz.com
Israel’s right-wing is seduced by European nationalists’ warmth toward the Jewish state, and their hostility toward Islam. But an illiberal Europe intolerant of minorities and pluralism is a disaster for Jews

...
For Israel, those parties’ friendly attitudes toward the Jewish state, and their hostility toward Islam, appear to be a seductive proposition. Even when, in those same right-wing parties, there are deeply entrenched anti-Semitic views.
So some of them believe that Jews are bad but Israel is good.
 
Bernie Sanders continued:
At the same time, we are seeing the rise of a new generation of activists who want to build societies based on human needs and political equality. We saw these activists in American streets last summer in the wake of the murder of George Floyd. We see them in Israel. We see them in the Palestinian territories.

I like this comment:
What American media seems to have underreported is that Israel was literally a day or two from ousting Netanyahu from government before this war happened. In a parliamentary system these changes in PM don’t have an exact date and depend on coalition formation. Everyone knew the new coalition deal which would have shown Netanyahu the door was at most days away from being signed ! Many in Israel believe the current escalation is too convenient to be a coincidence. Remember too that this is happening after a 4th consecutive election in which Netanyahu failed to secure a stable majority. And even now - even if the war bought him a few more months at such a bloody price - at most he can get another elections (no. 5), not an outright mandate to rule. He does not have the trust of the Israeli people (a stable parliamentary coalition) and hasn’t for over two years now. Both polls and elections show most people want him out and eventually he’ll run out of tricks.
So these attacks are some "Wag the Dog" distraction?

LIVE: AOC, Ilhan Omar and More Speak on Israeli-Palestine Conflict on House Floor - YouTube - 2 hours of speeches
 
The "Damn Squad" has been very vocal, including on the House floor, in their opposition to Israel and refusal to condemn Hamas shooting rockets at Israeli civilians. So they are on topic in this thread. Especially when lpetrich brings them up repeatedly.

...
Doesn't mean they do not keep running their mouths over it, condemning Israel for defending itself from Islamic terrorism, while refusing to condemn Hamas for shooting >2000 rockets at Israeli civilians.
What do you want them to say? That Israel must out-Hamas Hamas? That Hamas is so horrible that Israel must imitate it several times over? That the only good Palestinian is a dead one?


All that aside, I like Israel's  Iron Dome - it's an anti-missile missile system, for shooting down oncoming missiles. It's a way of defending against Hamas's missiles that does not involve killing Palestinian civilians.
 

“Now I’m not using this photograph to make the case Palestinians are Nazis.”

And you assumed your reader would naturally come to that conclusion? No, you didn’t. Then why the fuck did you mention it? I guess you can only keep winning the propaganda war for so long. Your only saving grace is how few people actually give a fuck about Israel to even pay attention.
I can’t believe people can read this shit and not see it for what it is.
 
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