More Trouble In Israel

[Jayjay]

There is a solution - allow Israel to defeat Hamas instead of international community pressuring them to agree to a cease fire that merely allows Hamas and Islamic Jihad to replenish their arsenal from Big Daddy Iran.

The international community has no such leverage over Israel. It's Israel's own choice not to "defeat Hamas", by which you mean murdering every single person in Gaza.

Israel can't defeat Hamas for the same reason the US hasn't defeated ISIS, Al Qaeda or Taleban. There are always some people left who vow revenge and carry out attacks. At best, you can destroy their weapons and infrastructure to a point that they are temporarily crippled. This is what Israel has been doing and is doing now. But if it wanted to root out Hamas, it would mean either eliminating every potential terrorist i.e. everyone in Gaza, or reoccupying the strip and maintaining constant control. Neither is acceptable to the Israeli general public. The international community has nothing to do with it.

 

[Jayjay]

No.

The Palestinians do not have to do anything to have the right to defend themselves from Israel.

They already have that right.

It is simply being denied them with continual violence.

Hamas has shot 2,000 missiles into Israel, as far as Tel Aviv. You are ok with that. But you are not ok with Israel defending itself from Islamic terrorism.

This is what oppression gets you.

You do not have the right to oppress people then oppress them more because they resist.

The Palestinians have the right to have every weapon Israel has.

No, they do not.

Only to the immoral with double standards based on prejudice.

What Hamas is doing is not "resistance". It's aimed not at Jerusalem or the illegal colonies, but Tel Aviv and other parts of Israel that are not disputed. Israel did absolutely nothing in Gaza to warrant this attack; it was Hamas who decided that they can murder innocent people (including their own) because Israel was evicting people from Jerusalem. I guess they didn't want to be left out of the party, and now hundreds of Palestinians are paying the price of Hamas's actions.

Do you have a right to murder any Chinese person you see because China is committing atrocities in Xinjiang, Tibet or Hong Kong? Of course not. It's not legitimate resistance if you are not being oppressed, or if you are not targeting the source of the oppression. It's just plain old terrorism.

 

[lpetrich]

Jews don't automatically love beating up Palestinians. In a recent Instagram story, AOC linked to this announcement of an activist event.
IfNotNow on Instagram: “Here's how American Jews can act, right now. …”

Here's how American Jews can act, right now. (link with more info in our bio)
.
Tomorrow, May 15th, is Nakba Day. It's an annual commemoration by Palestinians and their allies of how, during the 1948 War, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were forced from their homes or left in fear, never able to go back. We know that the Nakba did not end in 1948, that the Israeli government has continued to displace Palestinians in order to preserve Jewish supremacy. This is exactly what is happening in Sheikh Jarrah right now.
.
We are organizing Jewish Solidarity Meet-Ups at some of the dozens of Nakba Day Protests that are being organized by Palestinians in cities across the country this weekend. Jews showing up to these actions — as Jews — will send a powerful statement of solidarity to the American politicians funding Israeli violence in the name of Jewish safety.

AOC also linked to @jews4blacklives on Instagram: “With open hearts, we recognize the complexity of our identities as American Jews. …”

With open hearts, we recognize the complexity of our identities as American Jews.

With firm footing, we commit to dismantling white supremacy and anti-Black racism in America.

With supple minds, we hold multiple perspectives and challenge ourselves to learn more.

With grieving souls, we pray for peace, shalom, salaam.

With these affirmations, we share wisdom from @jfrejnyc “Understanding Antisemitism: An Offering To Our Movement.”

Authored by a multi-racial, multi-ethnic, intergenerational team including Black, Mizrahi and white Ashkenazi Jews, with editorial review and support by Jews with ethnic and national identities from many countries including Puerto Rico, India, Iraq, Syria, as well as non-Jewish allies from many racial and ethnic backgrounds. The team also includes significant class and gender diversity.

Link in our bio to learn more.

The third picture states "Criticisms of Israel and Zionism are not inherently or inevitably anti-Jewish. All states, movements and ideologies should be scrutinized, and all forms of injustice denounced."

 

[untermensche]

No.

The Palestinians do not have to do anything to have the right to defend themselves from Israel.

They already have that right.

It is simply being denied them with continual violence.



This is what oppression gets you.

You do not have the right to oppress people then oppress them more because they resist.

No, they do not.

Only to the immoral with double standards based on prejudice.

What Hamas is doing is not "resistance". It's aimed not at Jerusalem or the illegal colonies, but Tel Aviv and other parts of Israel that are not disputed. Israel did absolutely nothing in Gaza to warrant this attack; it was Hamas who decided that they can murder innocent people (including their own) because Israel was evicting people from Jerusalem. I guess they didn't want to be left out of the party, and now hundreds of Palestinians are paying the price of Hamas's actions.

Do you have a right to murder any Chinese person you see because China is committing atrocities in Xinjiang, Tibet or Hong Kong? Of course not. It's not legitimate resistance if you are not being oppressed, or if you are not targeting the source of the oppression. It's just plain old terrorism.

Blah blah blah.

The Palestinians have the exact same rights as Israel.

They have the right to defend themselves from Israeli oppression and violence that has lasted for decades.

Those that say the Palestinians do not have the right to defend themselves from Israel are fascists.

Those that say the Palestinians do not have the same right to have all the same weapons Israel has are immoral fascists.

And this latest attack by Israel, who has attacked Gaza over and over, was motivated by Israeli politics and Netanyahu's desire to hold onto power, not any real danger.

 

[Jayjay]

What Hamas is doing is not "resistance". It's aimed not at Jerusalem or the illegal colonies, but Tel Aviv and other parts of Israel that are not disputed. Israel did absolutely nothing in Gaza to warrant this attack; it was Hamas who decided that they can murder innocent people (including their own) because Israel was evicting people from Jerusalem. I guess they didn't want to be left out of the party, and now hundreds of Palestinians are paying the price of Hamas's actions.

Do you have a right to murder any Chinese person you see because China is committing atrocities in Xinjiang, Tibet or Hong Kong? Of course not. It's not legitimate resistance if you are not being oppressed, or if you are not targeting the source of the oppression. It's just plain old terrorism.

Blah blah blah.

The Palestinians have the exact same rights as Israel.

Are you saying Israel has the right to shoot rockets indiscriminately at Palestinian territory without provocation? I don't think it does.

They have the right to defend themselves from Israeli oppression and violence that has lasted for decades.

How is shooting first a defense? At best, it could be characterized as retaliation. But even when retaliating, there ought to be some rules. The retaliatory action needs to be swift, limited, and proportional. You can't just randomly shoot at people and justify it with vague "decades of oppression and violence". Otherwise every person who has ever been slighted in his life would have a blanket permission to commit murder.

Those that say the Palestinians do not have the right to defend themselves from Israel are fascists.

Those that say the Palestinians do not have the same right to have the same weapon Israel has are immoral fascists.

Well, I am not saying either of those things. If Hamas wants to buy a fleet of F35 fighters and develop nuclear weapons like Israel, it has just as much right as Israel to do that. Those are just hard things to do for a batshit insane fascist cults like Hamas.

 

[Harry Bosch]

What Hamas is doing is not "resistance". It's aimed not at Jerusalem or the illegal colonies, but Tel Aviv and other parts of Israel that are not disputed. Israel did absolutely nothing in Gaza to warrant this attack; it was Hamas who decided that they can murder innocent people (including their own) because Israel was evicting people from Jerusalem. I guess they didn't want to be left out of the party, and now hundreds of Palestinians are paying the price of Hamas's actions.

Do you have a right to murder any Chinese person you see because China is committing atrocities in Xinjiang, Tibet or Hong Kong? Of course not. It's not legitimate resistance if you are not being oppressed, or if you are not targeting the source of the oppression. It's just plain old terrorism.

Blah blah blah.

The Palestinians have the exact same rights as Israel.

They have the right to defend themselves from Israeli oppression and violence that has lasted for decades.

Those that say the Palestinians do not have the right to defend themselves from Israel are fascists.

Those that say the Palestinians do not have the same right to have all the same weapons Israel has are immoral fascists.

And this latest attack by Israel, who has attacked Gaza over and over, was motivated by Israeli politics and Netanyahu's desire to hold onto power, not any real danger.

Actually, this isn't true. The Sheikh Jarrah area is owned by a couple Jewish people. They were granted this land by Jordan in 1950 or so. The Arab tenants has valid leases then. They have lived there for a long time. But they stropped paying their lease. They violated their lease. They really have no legal standing to this property anymore. If this happened to you or I, we'd be evicted. I do think that some kind of compromise needs to be found for political reasons. But to launch thousands of missiles because of this is an affront to the law.

 

[untermensche]

Are you saying Israel has the right to shoot rockets indiscriminately at Palestinian territory without provocation? I don't think it does.

No. The Palestinians have the right to tanks and jets and if Israel continues to oppress they have the right to use them.

When you oppress people for decades you deserve what you get in return.

How is shooting first a defense?

That's a joke. The Israeli oppression and theft has gone on for decades now.

To think the Palestinians started anything shows incredible ignorance of the history.

Well, I am not saying either of those things. If Hamas wants to buy a fleet of F35 fighters and develop nuclear weapons like Israel, it has just as much right as Israel to do that. Those are just hard things to do for a batshit insane fascist cults like Hamas.

The US GAVE Israel it's weapons.

The US saved Israel's ass in 73 and has used Israel as a US military outpost ever since.

The US has vetoed UN Resolution after Resolution to protect Israel from the consequences of it's crimes and allowed it to behave criminally towards the Palestinians for decades.

Insane cults arise from decades of oppression.

 

[untermensche]

What Hamas is doing is not "resistance". It's aimed not at Jerusalem or the illegal colonies, but Tel Aviv and other parts of Israel that are not disputed. Israel did absolutely nothing in Gaza to warrant this attack; it was Hamas who decided that they can murder innocent people (including their own) because Israel was evicting people from Jerusalem. I guess they didn't want to be left out of the party, and now hundreds of Palestinians are paying the price of Hamas's actions.

Do you have a right to murder any Chinese person you see because China is committing atrocities in Xinjiang, Tibet or Hong Kong? Of course not. It's not legitimate resistance if you are not being oppressed, or if you are not targeting the source of the oppression. It's just plain old terrorism.

Blah blah blah.

The Palestinians have the exact same rights as Israel.

They have the right to defend themselves from Israeli oppression and violence that has lasted for decades.

Those that say the Palestinians do not have the right to defend themselves from Israel are fascists.

Those that say the Palestinians do not have the same right to have all the same weapons Israel has are immoral fascists.

And this latest attack by Israel, who has attacked Gaza over and over, was motivated by Israeli politics and Netanyahu's desire to hold onto power, not any real danger.

Actually, this isn't true. The Sheikh Jarrah area is owned by a couple Jewish people. They were granted this land by Jordan in 1950 or so. The Arab tenants has valid leases then. They have lived there for a long time. But they stropped paying their lease. They violated their lease. They really have no legal standing to this property anymore. If this happened to you or I, we'd be evicted. I do think that some kind of compromise needs to be found for political reasons. But to launch thousands of missiles because of this is an affront to the law.

What are the borders of Israel?

What are the borders of Israel recognized by the UN?

Your formula for justice is this:

1. You oppress people and destroy their economy.

2. When they can't pay their bills you evict them with violence.

 

[Harry Bosch]

No. The Palestinians have the right to tanks and jets and if Israel continues to oppress they have the right to use them.

When you oppress people for decades you deserve what you get in return.



That's a joke. The Israeli oppression and theft has gone on for decades now.

To think the Palestinians started anything shows incredible ignorance of the history.

Well, I am not saying either of those things. If Hamas wants to buy a fleet of F35 fighters and develop nuclear weapons like Israel, it has just as much right as Israel to do that. Those are just hard things to do for a batshit insane fascist cults like Hamas.

The US GAVE Israel it's weapons.

The US saved Israel's ass in 73 and has used Israel as a US military outpost ever since.

The US has vetoed UN Resolution after Resolution to protect Israel from the consequences of it's crimes and allowed it to behave criminally towards the Palestinians for decades.

Insane cults arise from decades of oppression.

I wouldn't even give Bug-A-Salt rifles with laser sightings to a group that would launch 1,000 of missiles rather than argue in court. What are we if we can't settle disputes in court?

 

[untermensche]

I wouldn't even give Bug-A-Salt rifles with laser sightings to a group that would launch 1,000 of missiles rather than argue in court. What are we if we can't settle disputes in court?

No. You have no humanity.

You don't care what drives people to resist oppression.

 

[untermensche]

If you kidnap me and hold me against my will and torture me for decades you do not get to cry about me hitting you over the head with a lamp as I try to escape your oppression.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Actually, this isn't true. The Sheikh Jarrah area is owned by a couple Jewish people. They were granted this land by Jordan in 1950 or so. The Arab tenants has valid leases then. They have lived there for a long time. But they stropped paying their lease. They violated their lease. They really have no legal standing to this property anymore. If this happened to you or I, we'd be evicted. I do think that some kind of compromise needs to be found for political reasons. But to launch thousands of missiles because of this is an affront to the law.

What are the borders of Israel?

What are the borders of Israel recognized by the UN?

Your formula for justice is this:

1. You oppress people and destroy their economy.

2. When they can't pay their bills you evict them with violence.

Border's don't determine landlord/tenat rights. The local law does. I will agree that the Palestinians have been screwed (much of this due to their awful leaders over the years). But is it your view that they shouldn't have to pay rent if their landlord is Jewish? What if their landlord were American Indian or Australian or whatever?

 

[untermensche]

Border's don't determine landlord/tenat rights. The local law does. I will agree that the Palestinians have been screwed (much of this due to their awful leaders over the years). But is it your view that they shouldn't have to pay rent if their landlord is Jewish? What if their landlord were American Indian or Australian or whatever?

I clearly said what I am saying.

If you oppress people and destroy their economy, steal all their best land, you do not have the right to throw them out of their homes for not paying bills.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Border's don't determine landlord/tenat rights. The local law does. I will agree that the Palestinians have been screwed (much of this due to their awful leaders over the years). But is it your view that they shouldn't have to pay rent if their landlord is Jewish? What if their landlord were American Indian or Australian or whatever?

I clearly said what I am saying.

If you oppress people and destroy their economy, steal all their best land, you do not have the right to throw them out of their homes for not paying bills.

If "oppression" determined tenant rights, most of the tenants in the world wouldn't have to pay their rent or their bills.

 

[untermensche]

Border's don't determine landlord/tenat rights. The local law does. I will agree that the Palestinians have been screwed (much of this due to their awful leaders over the years). But is it your view that they shouldn't have to pay rent if their landlord is Jewish? What if their landlord were American Indian or Australian or whatever?

I clearly said what I am saying.

If you oppress people and destroy their economy, steal all their best land, you do not have the right to throw them out of their homes for not paying bills.

If "oppression" determined tenant rights, most of the tenants in the world wouldn't have to pay their rent or their bills.

You are on to something.

 

[Harry Bosch]

If "oppression" determined tenant rights, most of the tenants in the world wouldn't have to pay their rent or their bills.

You are on to something.

Yea buddy! That's the real deal. You're a socialist, and you don't think that people should have to pay their capitalist overlords! If we really wanted to help the Palestinians, create a socialist utopia - and all past grievances will be forgiven!

 

[Swammerdami]

You missed the context--this is land that was ethnically cleansed by Jordan in 1948. Before the war it was owned by Jews.

Serious questions for Mr. Pechtel:

(1) Was ALL this land owned by Jews in 1948?

(2) What is the status of land deed registries in Jerusalem and the West Bank?

(3) Do the Israelis taking over Palestinian properties present land deeds showing that their great-great-grandfathers owned that particular property in 1948, along with probate documents making them the legal heirs?

(4) Or, in your perspective, does the fact that some "Jew" might have owned some neighboring land in 1948 give arbitrary Israelis the right to occupy that land now?

In the aftermath of the Second World War there were major border realignments. But we don't see the German Army marching into western Poland with bulldozers, saying this was their land 85 years ago.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

There's plenty of blame to go around, and once I was inclined to put most of the blame on Arabs and Palestinian terrorists. But Netanyahu's Israel has morphed into one of the truly evil regimes on this planet. I do not want to hear any badmouthing of the Palestinians from anyone who hasn't spent decades being brutally oppressed, and who hasn't been forced through checkpoints just to visit a neighboring village. Loren, do you think you might get irritated if you were oppressed as the Palestinians are?

 

[Elixir]

The Arab tenants has valid leases then. They have lived there for a long time. But they stropped paying their lease. They violated their lease. They really have no legal standing to this property anymore.

So, there are no "right by use" or "adverse possession" provisions in local/regional law? Are you sure?

 

[Harry Bosch]

The Arab tenants has valid leases then. They have lived there for a long time. But they stropped paying their lease. They violated their lease. They really have no legal standing to this property anymore.

So, there are no "right by use" or "adverse possession" provisions in local/regional law? Are you sure?

No, I'm not sure at all. I'm not an attorney. I'm just saying that it should be decided in a court of law - not on the battle field. (I flunked first quarter law school! Didn't like it.)

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Seems to me that Israeli hardliners and Hamas are two peas in a pod. Each side says "Their attacks on innocent civilians are so horrible that we must do that to them."

It would be more accurate to say that the Squad and Hamas are like peas in a pod. Leftists have always seen Islamists as natural allies. Especially when it comes to their mutual enemy Israel.

Man, a sign of obsession is constantly referring to something that has nothing to do with the topic.

Israel v Hamas.

Damn Squad!

Tom Brady wins another Super Bowl

Damn Squad!

Bowels not doing their job.

Damn Squad!

The issues between Israel and the Palestine predate "The Squad"... or the birth of anyone in "The Squad". They are complicated, full of biases, and with radicals pushing agendas while everyone else suffers. The one time there was an inkling of giving Hamas enough rope to hang themselves, the West decided to just ignore it and the conflict extended into a phase that was worse than even a stalemate. Palestinians are third class citizens, Hamas will do whatever to stir the pot, natural resources are hoarded by the Israelis, Iran et al don't want anything resembling peace for the Palestinians, Israel hasn't had a government in a a couple years.