Mueller investigation

[Underseer]

But what if lying is actually telling the truth? Remember that the FBI is probably using facts instead of alternative facts, therefore everything they do is fake news! Fake news! I just disproved the FBI!!!! 47th dimensional chess!!!!!!

And so what if he is? Papadopoulos did not commit any crimes except lie about insignificant shit.

Including "conspiracy against the United States," which you seem to have decided is... explain that again? He was conspiring with another Trump staffer "against the United States"?

Are you sure you're not confusing "conspiring to launder money" with "conspiring against the United States"? Because the former at the very minimum likely involves pro-Russia Ukrainians. Remember lying about being a foreign agent? That was for pro-Russia Ukrainians, but whatever.

 

[Trausti]

And so what if he is? Papadopoulos did not commit any crimes except lie about insignificant shit.

Including "conspiracy against the United States," which you seem to have decided is... explain that again? He was conspiring with another Trump staffer "against the United States"?

Are you sure you're not confusing "conspiring to launder money" with "conspiring against the United States"? Because the former at the very minimum likely involves pro-Russia Ukrainians.

"Conspiracy against the United States" is not against Papa. That's against Manafort. Papa's only screw up was lying about nothing.

 

[blastula]

Underseer, you're confused. Papa pleaded to lying to the FBI, no conspiracy charge on him. You can see for yourself here. https://www.justice.gov/sco

 

[Trausti]

Manafort's real screw up with giving false info when he tried to retroactively register as a foreign agent. The foreign agent gig is apparently quite popular in D.C., for dems, reps, and those in between.

But Steve Vladeck, a professor at University of Texas School of Law who has written about FARA, said that although Downing is correct that there have been few FARA prosecutions, Manafort and Gates’ case is also unusual in a few respects. Vladeck said the Justice Department historically has given individuals who failed to register an opportunity to do so without facing charges. What’s different here, he said, is that Manafort and Gates allegedly provided false information to the Justice Department, which made things worse.

Nothing to do with Trump.

 

[Arctish]

Manafort's real screw up with giving false info when he tried to retroactively register as a foreign agent. The foreign agent gig is apparently quite popular in D.C., for dems, reps, and those in between.

But Steve Vladeck, a professor at University of Texas School of Law who has written about FARA, said that although Downing is correct that there have been few FARA prosecutions, Manafort and Gates’ case is also unusual in a few respects. Vladeck said the Justice Department historically has given individuals who failed to register an opportunity to do so without facing charges. What’s different here, he said, is that Manafort and Gates allegedly provided false information to the Justice Department, which made things worse.

Nothing to do with Trump.

So the Justice Dept. usually goes easy on influence peddlers who fail to identify and register themselves as agents of a foreign government and only punish those who lie about who they're really working for? That sounds pretty lenient.

 

[Trausti]

Manafort's real screw up with giving false info when he tried to retroactively register as a foreign agent. The foreign agent gig is apparently quite popular in D.C., for dems, reps, and those in between.



Nothing to do with Trump.

So the Justice Dept. usually goes easy on influence peddlers who fail to identify and register themselves as agents of a foreign government and only punish those who lie about who they're really working for? That sounds pretty lenient.

A difference here is that Mueller probably feels he needs to show some results. So he went for the easy stuff the Justice Department usually ignores.

 

[Ford]

Papa's only screw up was lying about nothing.

Papa's screw up was committing a felony which carries a maximum sentence of 5 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. He copped a plea and will get a reduced sentence in exchange for cooperation, but he lied to federal agents who were pursing a criminal investigation. This is not "nothing."

 

[Trausti]

Papa's only screw up was lying about nothing.

Papa's screw up was committing a felony which carries a maximum sentence of 5 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. He copped a plea and will get a reduced sentence in exchange for cooperation, but he lied to federal agents who were pursing a criminal investigation. This is not "nothing."

The penalty may not be "nothing," but what he lied about was.

 

[Ford]

Papa's screw up was committing a felony which carries a maximum sentence of 5 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. He copped a plea and will get a reduced sentence in exchange for cooperation, but he lied to federal agents who were pursing a criminal investigation. This is not "nothing."

The penalty may not be "nothing," but what he lied about was.

You're not really grasping this, are you? It wasn't "what he lied about," but the fact that he made false statements to investigators. False statements intended to impede a criminal investigation. Hence, felony charges.

Manafort is up on 12 counts: conspiracy against the United States, conspiracy to launder money, unregistered agent of a foreign principal, false and misleading FARA statements, false statements, and seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts.

These aren't "nothing."

 

[Trausti]

The penalty may not be "nothing," but what he lied about was.

You're not really grasping this, are you? It wasn't "what he lied about," but the fact that he made false statements to investigators. False statements intended to impede a criminal investigation. Hence, felony charges.

Manafort is up on 12 counts: conspiracy against the United States, conspiracy to launder money, unregistered agent of a foreign principal, false and misleading FARA statements, false statements, and seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts.

These aren't "nothing."

Papa is not Manafort. Manafort is not Papa.

 

[Ford]

You're not really grasping this, are you? It wasn't "what he lied about," but the fact that he made false statements to investigators. False statements intended to impede a criminal investigation. Hence, felony charges.

Manafort is up on 12 counts: conspiracy against the United States, conspiracy to launder money, unregistered agent of a foreign principal, false and misleading FARA statements, false statements, and seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts.

These aren't "nothing."

Papa is not Manafort. Manafort is not Papa.

Papa copped to one felony, Manafort is up on 12. Please do try to keep up.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Hey guys, lemme try. I speak Trump.

Crooked Manafort had dirty money. $75 million went into offshore bank accounts. That's unAmerican. Need crooked politicians to do. Terrible crimes...

Trump knew. Comey figured it out. Phone "taps." FBI. They're all going down. Not in a good way like with Russian peepee hookers...

Terrible dirty Manafort. Trump terrible, too. He hired him. He didn't fire him. Manafort is the apprentice. Star Wars reference. See what I did there? These...

people are terrible. Manafort, Trump. Putin. Corruption. Terrible corruption. Also, unAmerican. Worse than kneeling, unless it's a beauty contestant with fake boobs. They can kneel...

Conspiracy. Trump. Terrible. Terrible. Trump. Manafort. Papa. Putin. UnAmerican. Offshore accounts. Terrible.

 

[LordKiran]

Hey guys, lemme try. I speak Trump.

Crooked Manafort had dirty money. $75 million went into offshore bank accounts. That's unAmerican. Need crooked politicians to do. Terrible crimes...

Trump knew. Comey figured it out. Phone "taps." FBI. They're all going down. Not in a good way like with Russian peepee hookers...

Terrible dirty Manafort. Trump terrible, too. He hired him. He didn't fire him. Manafort is the apprentice. Star Wars reference. See what I did there? These...

people are terrible. Manafort, Trump. Putin. Corruption. Terrible corruption. Also, unAmerican. Worse than kneeling, unless it's a beauty contestant with fake boobs. They can kneel...

Conspiracy. Trump. Terrible. Terrible. Trump. Manafort. Papa. Putin. UnAmerican. Offshore accounts. Terrible.

*Polite soft clapping the likes of which one hears when a new public abstract art piece is unveiled in your upscale suburban community.*

 

[Copernicus]

Papa's screw up was committing a felony which carries a maximum sentence of 5 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. He copped a plea and will get a reduced sentence in exchange for cooperation, but he lied to federal agents who were pursing a criminal investigation. This is not "nothing."

The penalty may not be "nothing," but what he lied about was.

What he lied about that got him into trouble was his claim that he had known the Russian professor before he joined the Trump campaign. He was trying to avoid saying that the only reason the Russians were interested in talking to him was his new role in the Trump campaign, because they perceived Papadopoulos as a liaison with the campaign. They were able to prove that he had never met the Russians before, at which point he knew he was caught in a lie. There were other misrepresentations, but he apparently became much more honest and forthcoming after he found himself compromised. That kind of work is fairly standard for investigators. There was no waterboarding, just competent FBI operating procedure. If Papadopoulos had felt there was nothing wrong with meeting the Russians, he would have answered honestly in the first place. There would have been no need to lie.

But you can figure that out for yourself. You're just doing your best to pursue the nothinburger strategy here.

 

[Malintent]

So the Justice Dept. usually goes easy on influence peddlers who fail to identify and register themselves as agents of a foreign government and only punish those who lie about who they're really working for? That sounds pretty lenient.

A difference here is that Mueller probably feels he needs to show some results. So he went for the easy stuff the Justice Department usually ignores.

Why do you think you know what Mueller "feels"? What would be the motivation for that feeling you are (conveniently inventing) claiming he has? Why would that "feeling" matter?

 

[Malintent]

But what if lying is actually telling the truth? Remember that the FBI is probably using facts instead of alternative facts, therefore everything they do is fake news! Fake news! I just disproved the FBI!!!! 47th dimensional chess!!!!!!

And so what if he is? Papadopoulos did not commit any crimes except lie about insignificant shit.

What was it he lied about and in what way is that insignificant? I believe you may be simply repeating the defenses statements... that's not having an opinion, nor is it an analysis of information... that is parroting... we already know that Polly would very much enjoy having a cracker. You seem to be having a little trouble distinguishing between objective facts and defensive excuses made by others that are facing jail time...

 

[Trausti]

Papa is not Manafort. Manafort is not Papa.

Papa copped to one felony, Manafort is up on 12. Please do try to keep up.

By "nothing" I was referencing what Papa lied about. That that's was obvious. Only repeated it several times.

 

[Trausti]

A difference here is that Mueller probably feels he needs to show some results. So he went for the easy stuff the Justice Department usually ignores.

Why do you think you know what Mueller "feels"? What would be the motivation for that feeling you are (conveniently inventing) claiming he has? Why would that "feeling" matter?

Did you miss the word "probably"? And, in any case, it seems my hunch was right. Mueller is done with the "collusion" silliness and going for the low hanging fruit.

At the center of the widening probe are Tony Podesta, a longtime Democratic operative, and Vin Weber, a former GOP congressman and leader of his own high-powered lobbying firm, Mercury LLC. The two men were hired as part of a multimillion-dollar lobbying effort directed by Manafort and longtime associate Rick Gates.

With the emphasis on the Ukrainian lobbying efforts, Mueller's criminal probe is moving beyond investigating ties between the Trump campaign and Russia and is aggressively pursuing people who worked as foreign agents without registering with the Justice Department. More witnesses are expected before the grand jury in coming weeks.

Be careful of what you ask for . . .

 

[Trausti]

And so what if he is? Papadopoulos did not commit any crimes except lie about insignificant shit.

What was it he lied about and in what way is that insignificant? I believe you may be simply repeating the defenses statements... that's not having an opinion, nor is it an analysis of information... that is parroting... we already know that Polly would very much enjoy having a cracker. You seem to be having a little trouble distinguishing between objective facts and defensive excuses made by others that are facing jail time...

Did you not read the Statement of Offense?

 

[Horatio Parker]

The bottom line: If Mueller starts a trial on all of the potential charges, and then Trump pardons Manafort, Mueller will not be able to hand off the case to state prosecutors. And thus he would have lost leverage at the time of the indictment if he seemed headed toward losing the state prosecution as a backup.

Instead, Mueller wisely brought one set of charges (mostly financial crimes that preceded the campaign), and he is saving other charges that New York could also bring (tax fraud, soliciting stolen goods, soliciting/conspiring to hack computers). Mueller also knew that his indictment document on Monday would include a devastating amount of detail on paper without relying on any witnesses to testify, showing Mueller had the goods on a slam-dunk federal money laundering case. Then he dropped the hammer with the Papadopoulos plea agreement, showing Manafort and Gates that he has the goods on far more charges, both in federal and state court.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...trategy_for_outmaneuvering_trump_pardons.html