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Mueller investigation

A POTUS' refusal to comply with a subpoena might be the greatest test of the Constitution in U.S. history.

All complexities aside, the question of whether the law applies to a sitting President would have to be decided by SCOTUS. There appears to be two basic choices.

Choice A: the law does apply, and Trump could be arrested for contempt. It is indeed difficult to imagine this happening though. SCOTUS would eventually have to hold a hearing on whether the proposed arrest warrant as issued by a lower court was valid. If SCOTUS did uphold the validity of the warrant then by whom would it be executed? The FBI? What would the Secret Service do? But however that would/wouldn't work, if Trump was found in contempt, but no arrest warrant issued, then we're basically onto the next, even more bizarre choice.

Choice B: the law does not apply to the POTUS and we have what amounts to a kind of de facto dictatorship--one in which the laws of the nation are unenforceable against anyone holding that position. By extension, anyone acting on unlawful orders would necessarily have to be free from punishment because the argument can be made that a law-free President can no longer give an unlawful order, thereby making the actions of the person carrying out the order lawful.

I would like to see a subpoena issued with a hard compliance date. Let's get this shit overwith and see if Gilead was just fiction or an instruction manual.


I wonder aloud when the stalwart 2nd Amendment supporters will choose Option C: Tree of Liberty and the Blood of Tyrants. I mean if Trump flips his fat middle finger to the Congress, courts, and his own DOJ, that would kinda fit the definition of a President that needed to be removed via a "2nd Amendment solution." I've got a funny feeling, though, that the ammosexuals would decide that their guns needed to be used instead to protect Fragilego Mussolini from the "deep state."

I hope I don't get the chance to be proven right about this.
 
A POTUS' refusal to comply with a subpoena might be the greatest test of the Constitution in U.S. history.

All complexities aside, the question of whether the law applies to a sitting President would have to be decided by SCOTUS. There appears to be two basic choices.

Choice A: the law does apply, and Trump could be arrested for contempt. It is indeed difficult to imagine this happening though. SCOTUS would eventually have to hold a hearing on whether the proposed arrest warrant as issued by a lower court was valid. If SCOTUS did uphold the validity of the warrant then by whom would it be executed? The FBI? What would the Secret Service do? But however that would/wouldn't work, if Trump was found in contempt, but no arrest warrant issued, then we're basically onto the next, even more bizarre choice.

Choice B: the law does not apply to the POTUS and we have what amounts to a kind of de facto dictatorship--one in which the laws of the nation are unenforceable against anyone holding that position. By extension, anyone acting on unlawful orders would necessarily have to be free from punishment because the argument can be made that a law-free President can no longer give an unlawful order, thereby making the actions of the person carrying out the order lawful.

I would like to see a subpoena issued with a hard compliance date. Let's get this shit overwith and see if Gilead was just fiction or an instruction manual.


I wonder aloud when the stalwart 2nd Amendment supporters will choose Option C: Tree of Liberty and the Blood of Tyrants. I mean if Trump flips his fat middle finger to the Congress, courts, and his own DOJ, that would kinda fit the definition of a President that needed to be removed via a "2nd Amendment solution." I've got a funny feeling, though, that the ammosexuals would decide that their guns needed to be used instead to protect Fragilego Mussolini from the "deep state."

I hope I don't get the chance to be proven right about this.

NRA TV is telling the ammosexuals to "protect the crown."
 
A POTUS' refusal to comply with a subpoena might be the greatest test of the Constitution in U.S. history.

All complexities aside, the question of whether the law applies to a sitting President would have to be decided by SCOTUS. There appears to be two basic choices.

Choice A: the law does apply, and Trump could be arrested for contempt. It is indeed difficult to imagine this happening though. SCOTUS would eventually have to hold a hearing on whether the proposed arrest warrant as issued by a lower court was valid. If SCOTUS did uphold the validity of the warrant then by whom would it be executed? The FBI? What would the Secret Service do? But however that would/wouldn't work, if Trump was found in contempt, but no arrest warrant issued, then we're basically onto the next, even more bizarre choice.

Choice B: the law does not apply to the POTUS and we have what amounts to a kind of de facto dictatorship--one in which the laws of the nation are unenforceable against anyone holding that position. By extension, anyone acting on unlawful orders would necessarily have to be free from punishment because the argument can be made that a law-free President can no longer give an unlawful order, thereby making the actions of the person carrying out the order lawful.

I would like to see a subpoena issued with a hard compliance date. Let's get this shit overwith and see if Gilead was just fiction or an instruction manual.


I wonder aloud when the stalwart 2nd Amendment supporters will choose Option C: Tree of Liberty and the Blood of Tyrants. I mean if Trump flips his fat middle finger to the Congress, courts, and his own DOJ, that would kinda fit the definition of a President that needed to be removed via a "2nd Amendment solution." I've got a funny feeling, though, that the ammosexuals would decide that their guns needed to be used instead to protect Fragilego Mussolini from the "deep state."

I hope I don't get the chance to be proven right about this.

NRA TV is telling the ammosexuals to "protect the crown."

For reals?

And to Ford: that's an excellent consideration. What would they do?

What would they do?

Without being deputized by an already existing official program started by the orange tinted god emperor beforehand, what would happen at worst would be a few of those isolated dipshits gunning down some cops, some college campuses, some assassination attempts on libtards. Then it would be over. Some time down the road another Timothy McVeigh incident or two would happen. It would be awful, but it wouldn't end the Republic.

Those fuckwits wouldn't do much beyond that. It's one thing to imply a big game over the interwebs; it's quite another to contemplate a suicide mission.

And really, a few terrorist attacks by such nitwits would help speed the end of Trumpism and this particular brand of shitheadery we've had to endure these past few years.
 
Yep, for reals.

http://addictinginfo.com/2018/05/11...s-trump-once-again-talks-lifelong-presidency/

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...ns-trump-will-be-impeached-if-gop-loses-house

"If we lose this election, make absolutely no mistake. If we lose the House, @realDonaldTrump will in fact, be impeached. There's no question about it. It's time for us to protect the crown." —@dbongino #IngrahamAngle pic.twitter.com/nTmjEQwjoy

— NRATV (@NRATV) May 10, 2018
The NRA knows there is impeachable offenses that have been committed by Trump?
 
The NRA knows there is impeachable offenses that have been committed by Trump?

No, they think there are no offenses. They think that a Dem house will impeach their savior on trumped-up (heh) charges. This must be avoided.

Some of my relatives are sure that the goal is not impeaching Trump as much as invalidating the Russian-tainted election and installing Hillary, then taking the guns of everyone who supported Trump.
 
The NRA knows there is impeachable offenses that have been committed by Trump?

No, they think there are no offenses. They think that a Dem house will impeach their savior on trumped-up (heh) charges. This must be avoided.
I disagree. They seem so certain that Trump will be impeached... that must mean they know that he committed grave crimes! Mueller should subpoena them.
 
I think it’s important to remind everyone that Trump’s entire defense against all of this—the “witch hunt” defense—is predicated on the assertion of a “deep state” that so fears his mighty anti “establishment” powers and/or are all pro-Hillary Democrats who just couldn’t stand the fact that he “beat” her. That’s it. That is the entirety of his argument as to why any of this is a witch hunt. Fear of his power and jealousy of his “win.”

Iow, he has no defense and the ludicrousness of the narrative concocted reveals his guilt.
 
I think it’s important to remind everyone that Trump’s entire defense against all of this—the “witch hunt” defense—is predicated on the assertion of a “deep state” that so fears his mighty anti “establishment” powers and/or are all pro-Hillary Democrats who just couldn’t stand the fact that he “beat” her. That’s it. That is the entirety of his argument as to why any of this is a witch hunt. Fear of his power and jealousy of his “win.”

Iow, he has no defense and the ludicrousness of the narrative concocted reveals his guilt.
You seem to have forgotten that the Obama wiretapped Trump Tower personally. the FBI improperly unmasked Trump campaign officials illegally in wiretaps, Comey's lies about his conversations via Trump's secret tapes, and that this whole thing started because of the Steele Dossier, which has been proven false.

Clearly a conspiracy. That is what people are saying.
 
If the Dems take back the house in November, they might impeach Trump, but to remove him from office takes 67 Senators. There is no way that the Dems can take the Senate by more than a couple of seats, if at all. That means, that about 15 Republican Senators would have to do the right thing, which I don't see happening. I think Trump can do pretty much anything at this point and get away with it. I'm more concerned about him getting reelected in 2020 at this point, which might actually happen. He's already done plenty of things that could be used to impeach him, but his enablers either don't see it or don't want to see it. They care more about their own power than what is best for the nation.

No US president has ever been impeached and then removed from office. Nixon might have been but he resigned before it happened. I am not at all hopeful that Trump will be removed from office. His ratings are actually increasing. His base is expanding and Fox News is doing a great job of spewing out propaganda that keeps his base and most Republicans in the dark as to Trump's crimes. Very few Republicans read real news. They get their news from Fox. Fox lies are all that they know. What's going to happen to change this? The only thing I see that might help Trump lose some of his base is the economy tanking. Maybe.
 
If the Dems take back the house in November, they might impeach Trump, but to remove him from office takes 67 Senators. There is no way that the Dems can take the Senate by more than a couple of seats, if at all. That means, that about 15 Republican Senators would have to do the right thing, which I don't see happening.
Well, that's going to depend on the impeachment, won't it?
Depending on what charges are brought to bear, how well it's documented TO THE PUBLIC, and who testifies.

If Trumpf's approval rating drops to 20 or below during the impeachment, the 'right thing' may become more obvious to the GOP. They have no real loyalty to him, and if/when he turns into a millstone, they'll be fighting each other for camera time to say 'I never trusted' and 'I never supported,' and 'you'll remember in 2016 when I described him as...'
 
If the Dems take back the house in November, they might impeach Trump, but to remove him from office takes 67 Senators. There is no way that the Dems can take the Senate by more than a couple of seats, if at all. That means, that about 15 Republican Senators would have to do the right thing, which I don't see happening.
Well, that's going to depend on the impeachment, won't it?
Depending on what charges are brought to bear, how well it's documented TO THE PUBLIC, and who testifies.
Yeah... maybe. I mean Trump is ordering the DOJ to investigate the DOJ now. Since Watergate, the White House was supposed to stay out of the DOJ's business. We have several guilty pleas already, from inner Trump campaign folks... yet Trump is trying to intervene still.

We know he obstructed the Flynn investigation, and he is trying obstruct this investigation. But still has a good deal of support, which seems to have normalized to his outrageous behavior.

If Trumpf's approval rating drops to 20 or below during the impeachment...
That is a big IF I think. The right-wing has become caustic.
 
...But still has a good deal of support, which seems to have normalized to his outrageous behavior.

This statement is frankly scary because you're right. Whatever his behavior is, he can normalize it with his support. He even said while running he could kill someone and his supporters would be okay with it. Normalizing it is even worse. He's a serious threat to our country, to its people, and while I can't predict the future, it seems like it will get worse.

Jimmy Higgins said:
If Trumpf's approval rating drops to 20 or below during the impeachment...
That is a big IF I think. The right-wing has become caustic.

So long as they have Fox News & Friends, conservative print media, and the Misinformation Super Highway, I can't see them dropping that far.
 
If the Dems take back the house in November, they might impeach Trump, but to remove him from office takes 67 Senators. There is no way that the Dems can take the Senate by more than a couple of seats, if at all. That means, that about 15 Republican Senators would have to do the right thing, which I don't see happening.
Well, that's going to depend on the impeachment, won't it?
Depending on what charges are brought to bear, how well it's documented TO THE PUBLIC, and who testifies.

If Trumpf's approval rating drops to 20 or below during the impeachment, the 'right thing' may become more obvious to the GOP. They have no real loyalty to him, and if/when he turns into a millstone, they'll be fighting each other for camera time to say 'I never trusted' and 'I never supported,' and 'you'll remember in 2016 when I described him as...'

I was optimistic until a few weeks ago because I don't see Trump's support dropping regardless of what he does. Sure, it could happen. I'm just not optimistic at this point and for that matter, I'm not convinced that things would be better with Pence as president. He's a Trump sycophant, or he pretends to be one. He's even more beloved by the evangelicals than Trump. This is just a very dark time in the US. Hopefully, things will eventually get better.
 
I think it’s important to remind everyone that Trump’s entire defense against all of this—the “witch hunt” defense—is predicated on the assertion of a “deep state” that so fears his mighty anti “establishment” powers and/or are all pro-Hillary Democrats who just couldn’t stand the fact that he “beat” her. That’s it. That is the entirety of his argument as to why any of this is a witch hunt. Fear of his power and jealousy of his “win.”

Iow, he has no defense and the ludicrousness of the narrative concocted reveals his guilt.
You seem to have forgotten that the Obama wiretapped Trump Tower personally. the FBI improperly unmasked Trump campaign officials illegally in wiretaps, Comey's lies about his conversations via Trump's secret tapes, and that this whole thing started because of the Steele Dossier, which has been proven false.

Clearly a conspiracy. That is what people are saying.

That’s what the Trump supporters are saying. Again, his supporters are irrelevant. Every candidate has their core supporters. What matters are the majority, not the minority. And among the majority, what matters is the swing. So we’re talking about a potential ten percent in the middle and/or on the fence, not the ten percent on the extreme right end of the Trump spectrum.

Remember, he lost. The only reason he’s POTUS is because of an outdated technicality, not because he convinced a majority of Americans that he’s the better person for the job. There never was a “red wave.” When you cheat, it isn’t a “wave.”
 
This long article paints a picture of former felons assisting various Middle East government princes in manipulating President Trump and making a lot of money in the process. It explains much, and there's a lot of supporting documentation HERE. It shows how Trump is so easily manipulated since he knows virtually nothing about anything. I wonder how many governments have colluded with the Trump campaign/administration in such a manner? It is just filled to the brim with corruption.
 
I think it’s important to remind everyone that Trump’s entire defense against all of this—the “witch hunt” defense—is predicated on the assertion of a “deep state” that so fears his mighty anti “establishment” powers and/or are all pro-Hillary Democrats who just couldn’t stand the fact that he “beat” her. That’s it. That is the entirety of his argument as to why any of this is a witch hunt. Fear of his power and jealousy of his “win.”

Iow, he has no defense and the ludicrousness of the narrative concocted reveals his guilt.
You seem to have forgotten that the Obama wiretapped Trump Tower personally. the FBI improperly unmasked Trump campaign officials illegally in wiretaps, Comey's lies about his conversations via Trump's secret tapes, and that this whole thing started because of the Steele Dossier, which has been proven false.

Clearly a conspiracy. That is what people are saying.

That’s what the Trump supporters are saying. Again, his supporters are irrelevant. Every candidate has their core supporters. What matters are the majority, not the minority. And among the majority, what matters is the swing. So we’re talking about a potential ten percent in the middle and/or on the fence, not the ten percent on the extreme right end of the Trump spectrum.

Remember, he lost. The only reason he’s POTUS is because of an outdated technicality, not because he convinced a majority of Americans that he’s the better person for the job. There never was a “red wave.” When you cheat, it isn’t a “wave.”

Trump voters matter.

Republicans have a majority in both houses.

Yes, they used anti-democratic methods to get that power, but they have it and they're not going to give it up. Long after Trump is gone, Trump voters are still going to be voting. I expect the next one to be even worse.
 
That’s what the Trump supporters are saying. Again, his supporters are irrelevant. Every candidate has their core supporters. What matters are the majority, not the minority. And among the majority, what matters is the swing. So we’re talking about a potential ten percent in the middle and/or on the fence, not the ten percent on the extreme right end of the Trump spectrum.

Remember, he lost. The only reason he’s POTUS is because of an outdated technicality, not because he convinced a majority of Americans that he’s the better person for the job. There never was a “red wave.” When you cheat, it isn’t a “wave.”

Trump voters matter.

Republicans have a majority in both houses.

Yes, they used anti-democratic methods to get that power, but they have it and they're not going to give it up. Long after Trump is gone, Trump voters are still going to be voting. I expect the next one to be even worse.

I think many of them will fade back into the holes from which they emerged, once they lose power. A lot of them will probably stay home for the midterms, having turned out for the 2016 event only because there was a rabid racist "one of them" on the ticket. So they might lose power sooner than later.
 
That’s what the Trump supporters are saying. Again, his supporters are irrelevant. Every candidate has their core supporters. What matters are the majority, not the minority. And among the majority, what matters is the swing. So we’re talking about a potential ten percent in the middle and/or on the fence, not the ten percent on the extreme right end of the Trump spectrum.

Remember, he lost. The only reason he’s POTUS is because of an outdated technicality, not because he convinced a majority of Americans that he’s the better person for the job. There never was a “red wave.” When you cheat, it isn’t a “wave.”

Trump voters matter.

Core supporters do not. As I said, every election generates 10-15% on the extreme right and left. They cancel each other out and are irrelevant. All elections come down to the center and from the center the swing. Move the swing/center and you win, usually.

What happened in 2016 was a statistical anomaly. Nate Silver gave the chances of what happened happening only 10.5%. In his methodology, that’s essentially “no way in hell.” It all hinged on a less than 1% vote differential. That is so statistically insignificant that it literally could be achieved if a candidate were to sneeze at the wrong time (thus triggering fears of sickness/death).

This country has a very strange pyschology when it comes to “winning” or “losing.” It is always binary. If you don’t come home with the trophy, then nothing you did during the game matters. That’s just immature, two-dimensional nonsense. It’s playing checkers at a chess match. Most American brains can’t seem to process the idea that someone can win and lose at the same time (or lose and win at the same time). It just doesn’t compute for some bizarre reason, but only when it comes to the concept of a competition.

Stranger still, however, is that the one exception to that rule of “whoever holds the trophy is the winner” is when someone cheats. And that’s what happened here. Trump cheated. When you put it in those terms, immediately people snap to attention. That’s precisely what Trump did. He immediately went on the defensive to insist he didn’t cheat, in spite of the revealing fact that, no one was really accusing him of cheating.

He was the one to interpret “collusion” with him cheating. We were saying his actions were treasonous and all he heard was “you cheated.” Because, of course, he was guilty; he cheated. He knows this and that’s why it’s so revealing. But he also knows that most bullies—aka, “republicans”—can’t stand cheaters (regardless of whether or not they have ever been guilty of cheating themselves), so that is what he focused on, instead of the far more serious problem (to us, the bullied), which was criminal activity.

It’s part and parcel to their two-dimensional thinking.
 
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