My faith in the laws of economics has been reaffirmed.

[Bronzeage]

Self check out theft goes rampant.

When electronic self checkouts were first introduced, I didn't like the idea. Even today, when I use one, at least half the time, a human had to come resolve some problem with the machine. Once, a cashier had to push a button to indicate I was over age 18, because I wanted to buy a can of spray paint. Apparently people under 18 were using paint fumes to get high. The problem must have peaked and gone away, because I have a cabinet filled with about 200 cans of spray paint, but checked only once.

It turns out, there are ways to cheat the electronic check out. The machine knows only two things, barcode and weight. The most common scam is to find a cheap item that weighs the same as an expensive item. Most packages in the grocery store conveniently list the weight on the label. Scan the cheap one, put the expensive one in the bag and leave the other behind.

What's this got to do with the laws of economics, you ask?

It's one of those obvious things that are easily overlooked. It may appear that a cashier's job is to ring up sales and take the money, and that's true to an extent. It's not why cashiers are hired. A cashier's real job is to insure the customer pays the correct amount for the purchase. That is the job. The rest is just decoration.

Electronic checkouts were installed because they cost less than a human to operate, but that's only because no one thought about what a cashier's true job actually is. While they save the money on cashiers, they spend more money on shrinkage and security.

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

Solution: Jack the price up on the cheap stuff to ameliorate the risk of improper substitution.

Or did you not notice that the automated check out did absolutely nothing to lower the price of goods at the grocery store? Apparently expenses are exactly the same as they were when they had to pay people to check out customers.

aa

 

[credoconsolans]

Solution: Jack the price up on the cheap stuff to ameliorate the risk of improper substitution.

Or did you not notice that the automated check out did absolutely nothing to lower the price of goods at the grocery store? Apparently expenses are exactly the same as they were when they had to pay people to check out customers.

aa

It was to save the CORPORATION money, not the customers. To increase THEIR bottom lines, not ours.

 

[Axulus]

Solution: Jack the price up on the cheap stuff to ameliorate the risk of improper substitution.

Or did you not notice that the automated check out did absolutely nothing to lower the price of goods at the grocery store? Apparently expenses are exactly the same as they were when they had to pay people to check out customers.

aa

What are you basing that on?

Food Price Deflation Cheers Consumers, Hurts Farmers, Grocers and Restaurants

Farm Belt cutbacks hit more businesses even as consumers save big at the grocery store

The U.S. is on track this year to post the longest stretch of falling food prices in more than 50 years, a streak that is cheering shoppers at the checkout line but putting a financial strain on farmers and grocery stores.

The trend is being fueled by an excess supply of dairy products, meat, grains and other staples and less demand for many of those same products from China and elsewhere due to the strong dollar. Lower energy costs for transportation and refrigeration also are contributing to sagging food prices, say economists.

“Deflation is a godsend for consumers,” said Bob Goldin, vice chairman of food consultancy Technomic Inc.

Nationwide, the price of a gallon of whole milk on average was down 11% to $3.06 in July over a year ago; the price of a dozen large eggs fell 40% to $1.55 in the same period.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/food-pr...ts-farmers-grocers-and-restaurants-1472490823

 

[zorq]

What are you basing that on?

Food Price Deflation Cheers Consumers, Hurts Farmers, Grocers and Restaurants

Farm Belt cutbacks hit more businesses even as consumers save big at the grocery store

The U.S. is on track this year to post the longest stretch of falling food prices in more than 50 years, a streak that is cheering shoppers at the checkout line but putting a financial strain on farmers and grocery stores.

The trend is being fueled by an excess supply of dairy products, meat, grains and other staples and less demand for many of those same products from China and elsewhere due to the strong dollar. Lower energy costs for transportation and refrigeration also are contributing to sagging food prices, say economists.

“Deflation is a godsend for consumers,” said Bob Goldin, vice chairman of food consultancy Technomic Inc.

Nationwide, the price of a gallon of whole milk on average was down 11% to $3.06 in July over a year ago; the price of a dozen large eggs fell 40% to $1.55 in the same period.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/food-pr...ts-farmers-grocers-and-restaurants-1472490823

What a huge non-sequeter.

Food prices for consumers in the US may have dropped recently, but that is clearly not affected by the introduction of electronic check out. If it was, farmers would be completely unaffected.

Obviously, the drop in food prices is related to the overabundance of food in the US likely due to increases in farming and distribution efficiency, which WOULD affect the price that farmers get.

You also seem to be unaware that consumers can notice when certain store chains, including hardware stores and electronics stores suddenly adopt electronic checkout that their prices don't seem to be affected as each chain adopts the technology at different times.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Solution: Jack the price up on the cheap stuff to ameliorate the risk of improper substitution.

Or did you not notice that the automated check out did absolutely nothing to lower the price of goods at the grocery store? Apparently expenses are exactly the same as they were when they had to pay people to check out customers.

aa

It was to save the CORPORATION money, not the customers. To increase THEIR bottom lines, not ours.

Right. They'll just jack up prices to cover losses.

Here in PA we lose 43 million bucks every year to people who don't pay turnpike tolls. Guess who picks up the tab.

 

[Metaphor]

Self check out theft goes rampant.

When electronic self checkouts were first introduced, I didn't like the idea. Even today, when I use one, at least half the time, a human had to come resolve some problem with the machine. Once, a cashier had to push a button to indicate I was over age 18, because I wanted to buy a can of spray paint. Apparently people under 18 were using paint fumes to get high. The problem must have peaked and gone away, because I have a cabinet filled with about 200 cans of spray paint, but checked only once.

It turns out, there are ways to cheat the electronic check out. The machine knows only two things, barcode and weight. The most common scam is to find a cheap item that weighs the same as an expensive item. Most packages in the grocery store conveniently list the weight on the label. Scan the cheap one, put the expensive one in the bag and leave the other behind.

Actually I doubt very many people do that. Most of the theft is products without barcodes that are self-packed and sold by weight (nuts, fruit, vegetables). You tell the machine you've got peanuts when you've actually got cashews, or as is said 'everything is carrots'.

The self-checkouts are truly obnoxious. They're all fixed at the same (wheelchair appropriate) height, so anyone above 5'0" is going to get a bad back from it. The weight-sensing is like an internet troll; it harasses you for putting an 'unexpected item in the bagging area', it harasses you for not putting an item in the bagging area, it harasses you for looking at it wrong. Then the attendant has to come over and scan their ID because now the red light is on and there is nothing you can do.

 

[coloradoatheist]

It's an interesting question

Theoritically if the spoilage numbers (what they lose from people cheating the system as suggested) is higher than the cost of of paying the cashiers than the should go back to cashiers. So why haven't they?

 

[barbos]

Self check out theft goes rampant.

When electronic self checkouts were first introduced, I didn't like the idea. Even today, when I use one, at least half the time, a human had to come resolve some problem with the machine. Once, a cashier had to push a button to indicate I was over age 18, because I wanted to buy a can of spray paint. Apparently people under 18 were using paint fumes to get high. The problem must have peaked and gone away, because I have a cabinet filled with about 200 cans of spray paint, but checked only once.

It turns out, there are ways to cheat the electronic check out. The machine knows only two things, barcode and weight. The most common scam is to find a cheap item that weighs the same as an expensive item. Most packages in the grocery store conveniently list the weight on the label. Scan the cheap one, put the expensive one in the bag and leave the other behind.

What's this got to do with the laws of economics, you ask?

It's one of those obvious things that are easily overlooked. It may appear that a cashier's job is to ring up sales and take the money, and that's true to an extent. It's not why cashiers are hired. A cashier's real job is to insure the customer pays the correct amount for the purchase. That is the job. The rest is just decoration.

Electronic checkouts were installed because they cost less than a human to operate, but that's only because no one thought about what a cashier's true job actually is. While they save the money on cashiers, they spend more money on shrinkage and security.

Interesting, thank you for explaining why that damn thing is always complaining and asking you to take things out of the bagging area, it just measures the weight and if it's not what it is supposed to it would start driving you mad.

Anyway, you do realize that AI will soon replace humans there anyway?

 

[JonA]

The self-checkouts are truly obnoxious. They're all fixed at the same (wheelchair appropriate) height, so anyone above 5'0" is going to get a bad back from it. The weight-sensing is like an internet troll; it harasses you for putting an 'unexpected item in the bagging area', it harasses you for not putting an item in the bagging area, it harasses you for looking at it wrong. Then the attendant has to come over and scan their ID because now the red light is on and there is nothing you can do.

But at least my supper doesn't have to be handled by someone who's been standing around all day picking their nose.

 

[Tigers!]

Self check out theft goes rampant.

When electronic self checkouts were first introduced, I didn't like the idea. Even today, when I use one, at least half the time, a human had to come resolve some problem with the machine. Once, a cashier had to push a button to indicate I was over age 18, because I wanted to buy a can of spray paint. Apparently people under 18 were using paint fumes to get high. The problem must have peaked and gone away, because I have a cabinet filled with about 200 cans of spray paint, but checked only once.

It turns out, there are ways to cheat the electronic check out. The machine knows only two things, barcode and weight. The most common scam is to find a cheap item that weighs the same as an expensive item. Most packages in the grocery store conveniently list the weight on the label. Scan the cheap one, put the expensive one in the bag and leave the other behind.

What's this got to do with the laws of economics, you ask?

It's one of those obvious things that are easily overlooked. It may appear that a cashier's job is to ring up sales and take the money, and that's true to an extent. It's not why cashiers are hired. A cashier's real job is to insure the customer pays the correct amount for the purchase. That is the job. The rest is just decoration.

Electronic checkouts were installed because they cost less than a human to operate, but that's only because no one thought about what a cashier's true job actually is. While they save the money on cashiers, they spend more money on shrinkage and security.

Another example of the law of unintended consequences.

I used to install those self check outs machines. They could measure to the 1/10 of a gram but density was beyond them. So your example is perfectly feasible.

- - - Updated - - -

It was to save the CORPORATION money, not the customers. To increase THEIR bottom lines, not ours.

My bottom line increases when I eat too much.

 

[untermensche]

What so-called "laws" have been reaffirmed?

People stuck in an oppressive economic situation will be stressed?

 

[iolo]

Quite. I read The Economist every week, and, as far as I can make out, these 'laws' cover the only the doings of rational and total selfish beings such as may exist on Mars but are lacking here. Mostly they mean quite simply, 'we back the rich!'

 

[Jayjay]

Maybe we could just keep a closer eye on economists so they won't go around stealing shit?

 

[dismal]

What so-called "laws" have been reaffirmed?

I was wondering the same thing. But, like you know, with actual consideration of the laws of economics.

This seems mostly to be a substitution issue for the grocery store. Do the plusses outweigh the minuses across all dimensions including cost, shrinkage, service quality, etc.

 

[Bronzeage]

It's an interesting question

Theoritically if the spoilage numbers (what they lose from people cheating the system as suggested) is higher than the cost of of paying the cashiers than the should go back to cashiers. So why haven't they?

It's an economic concept known as "sunk costs". If they go back to humans, all the money invested in machines is lost. If they keep tinkering with the system, it protects their egos.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

I have never used a self-checkout machine.

 

[Bronzeage]

What so-called "laws" have been reaffirmed?

People stuck in an oppressive economic situation will be stressed?

The law which is most often quoted as, 'You get what you pay for."

Human to human interactions contain many nuances which are intrinsic to the process and we don't notice them. The cashier position was a combination of money taker and loss preventer. The electronic system could only take money, so when loss prevention was eliminated, losses increased.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Quite. I read The Economist every week, and, as far as I can make out, these 'laws' cover the only the doings of rational and total selfish beings such as may exist on Mars but are lacking here. Mostly they mean quite simply, 'we back the rich!'

Yes, the underlying assumption is that humans are rational is blatantly false.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Well, to all you self-checkout haters, some find them to be a godsend. Like the lonely basket carrier that understands the contradiction of the "express checkout".

The trying to sneak cheaper items over and remembering cheaper bulk food codes does seem like an awful lot of trouble to go through to save a few bucks.