My faith in the laws of economics has been reaffirmed.

[RavenSky]

The self-checkouts are truly obnoxious. They're all fixed at the same (wheelchair appropriate) height, so anyone above 5'0" is going to get a bad back from it. The weight-sensing is like an internet troll; it harasses you for putting an 'unexpected item in the bagging area', it harasses you for not putting an item in the bagging area, it harasses you for looking at it wrong. Then the attendant has to come over and scan their ID because now the red light is on and there is nothing you can do.

Made me laugh! So very true

 

[untermensche]

In what culture are you seeing this?

The culture in which I live. I suppose that is the American culture. Surely this tendency isn't America specific. Is it capitalism? Lack of honor? Because people are poor? Skin color? Maybe severe punishment and harsh ridicule have mitigated the prevalence in societies that have come before us, but without such things to suppress thievery, I would have imagined that it would flourish. When not caught, the short term benefits are rewarding, so if there should be a skewing, I would have thought the default tendency would be steel. Maybe character is better taught in other cultures.

Economic systems dependent on forced deprivation will create certain kinds of people.

This says nothing beyond bad systems create disturbed humans.

 

[coloradoatheist]

The culture in which I live. I suppose that is the American culture. Surely this tendency isn't America specific. Is it capitalism? Lack of honor? Because people are poor? Skin color? Maybe severe punishment and harsh ridicule have mitigated the prevalence in societies that have come before us, but without such things to suppress thievery, I would have imagined that it would flourish. When not caught, the short term benefits are rewarding, so if there should be a skewing, I would have thought the default tendency would be steel. Maybe character is better taught in other cultures.

Economic systems dependent on forced deprivation will create certain kinds of people.

This says nothing beyond bad systems create disturbed humans.

Rules for theft came about as soon as humans started working in a society and the rules were codified. Theft was a death penalty crime from the beginning, but we don't do that any more. What is different in society is not a lack of stealing, but just how much and what.

 

[untermensche]

Economic systems dependent on forced deprivation will create certain kinds of people.

This says nothing beyond bad systems create disturbed humans.

Rules for theft came about as soon as humans started working in a society and the rules were codified. Theft was a death penalty crime from the beginning, but we don't do that any more. What is different in society is not a lack of stealing, but just how much and what.

Haves and have nots arose at the same time.

Slaves and masters arose at the same time.

For centuries it was said that human nature was for some to be masters and some to be slaves and for men to be master over women.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Rules for theft came about as soon as humans started working in a society and the rules were codified. Theft was a death penalty crime from the beginning, but we don't do that any more. What is different in society is not a lack of stealing, but just how much and what.

Haves and have nots arose at the same time.

Slaves and masters arose at the same time.

For centuries it was said that human nature was for some to be masters and some to be slaves and for men to be master over women.

It's also been written that humans need to eat to live. Maybe if we just think humans won't need to eat any more.

 

[untermensche]

Haves and have nots arose at the same time.

Slaves and masters arose at the same time.

For centuries it was said that human nature was for some to be masters and some to be slaves and for men to be master over women.

It's also been written that humans need to eat to live. Maybe if we just think humans won't need to eat any more.

I agree. Humans need to eat to live.

That is true. And it says nothing else.

 

[coloradoatheist]

It's also been written that humans need to eat to live. Maybe if we just think humans won't need to eat any more.

I agree. Humans need to eat to live.

That is true. And it says nothing else.

Unless the traits that we are talking about are closer to the eating side of things. Even people who are doing well in the system steal otherwise there wouldn't be white collar crime. Humans can have strange conflicted emotions at time.

The easy way to get rid of stealing is to create that energy/matter convertor, but even that wouldn't eliminate 100% of stealing.

 

[untermensche]

I agree. Humans need to eat to live.

That is true. And it says nothing else.

Unless the traits that we are talking about are closer to the eating side of things. Even people who are doing well in the system steal otherwise there wouldn't be white collar crime. Humans can have strange conflicted emotions at time.

The easy way to get rid of stealing is to create that energy/matter convertor, but even that wouldn't eliminate 100% of stealing.

The issue is whether it is some general tendency as opposed to a rare trait.

You see people stealing from their elderly parents.

But it is a rare trait, not a general trait.

And probably has more to do with upbringing than genetics.

 

[iolo]

The notion of property arises from 'ownership' of land, but where did anyone get that from? Land is just there, and individual property is theft, way back when or yesterday.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Unless the traits that we are talking about are closer to the eating side of things. Even people who are doing well in the system steal otherwise there wouldn't be white collar crime. Humans can have strange conflicted emotions at time.

The easy way to get rid of stealing is to create that energy/matter convertor, but even that wouldn't eliminate 100% of stealing.

The issue is whether it is some general tendency as opposed to a rare trait.

You see people stealing from their elderly parents.

But it is a rare trait, not a general trait.

And probably has more to do with upbringing than genetics.

Where are you getting that stealing was only against elderly parents? Shouldn't the commandment then have been "Though shall not steal against old people?" I do agree that capitalism has slightly changed theft, we now have more stuff to steal.

- - - Updated - - -

The notion of property arises from 'ownership' of land, but where did anyone get that from? Land is just there, and individual property is theft, way back when or yesterday.

Even some animals show land and ownership. Land becoming property is very important in the development of humans because humans only have the ability to live in a few areas without developing property.

 

[untermensche]

The issue is whether it is some general tendency as opposed to a rare trait.

You see people stealing from their elderly parents.

But it is a rare trait, not a general trait.

And probably has more to do with upbringing than genetics.

Where are you getting that stealing was only against elderly parents? Shouldn't the commandment then have been "Though shall not steal against old people?" I do agree that capitalism has slightly changed theft, we now have more stuff to steal.

I am showing a situation where stealing is a rare behavior.

This demonstrates the situational nature of the behavior.

It shows it is not some genetic trait.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Where are you getting that stealing was only against elderly parents? Shouldn't the commandment then have been "Though shall not steal against old people?" I do agree that capitalism has slightly changed theft, we now have more stuff to steal.

I am showing a situation where stealing is a rare behavior.

This demonstrates the situational nature of the behavior.

It shows it is not some genetic trait.

All you did was make a weird claim that at some time in some place that only old people got stolen from. You had no specifics and no proof.

 

[untermensche]

I am showing a situation where stealing is a rare behavior.

This demonstrates the situational nature of the behavior.

It shows it is not some genetic trait.

All you did was make a weird claim that at some time in some place that only old people got stolen from. You had no specifics and no proof.

I can only lead horses to water.

People do not generally steal from their elderly parents.

They take care of them.

Is this news to you?

So under certain circumstances theft is a rare phenomena.

Therefore it can't be a genetic trait.

It is a situational, cultural trait.

 

[fast]

All you did was make a weird claim that at some time in some place that only old people got stolen from. You had no specifics and no proof.

I can only lead horses to water.

People do not generally steal from their elderly parents.

They take care of them.

Is this news to you?

So under certain circumstances theft is a rare phenomena.

Therefore it can't be a genetic trait.

It is a situational, cultural trait.

Well, I can certainly appreciate your optimism, misplaced as I think it is.

 

[untermensche]

I can only lead horses to water.

People do not generally steal from their elderly parents.

They take care of them.

Is this news to you?

So under certain circumstances theft is a rare phenomena.

Therefore it can't be a genetic trait.

It is a situational, cultural trait.

Well, I can certainly appreciate your optimism, misplaced as I think it is.

It is not merely optimism that people don't steal from their elderly parents.

It is an observable phenomena.

Human nature is not that different from the nature of a dog.

When people are treated decently they behave decently.

When they are trapped in a corrupt unjust system of haves and have nots they behave badly.

 

[Trausti]

I can only lead horses to water.

People do not generally steal from their elderly parents.

They take care of them.

Is this news to you?

So under certain circumstances theft is a rare phenomena.

Therefore it can't be a genetic trait.

It is a situational, cultural trait.

Well, I can certainly appreciate your optimism, misplaced as I think it is.

Unter is one of those blank slate types who dismisses genetics; and thinks the only thing you can inherit is guilt for slavery.

 

[untermensche]

Well, I can certainly appreciate your optimism, misplaced as I think it is.

Unter is one of those blank slate types who dismisses genetics; and thinks the only thing you can inherit is guilt for slavery.

You are somebody that pulls "facts" from your ass and tries to pass them off as knowledge.

Animals that are treated decently generally behave differently from animals that are abused.

Humans that live in decent circumstances behave differently from humans living in abusive circumstances.

Genes have less to say about behavior than experience.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Unter is one of those blank slate types who dismisses genetics; and thinks the only thing you can inherit is guilt for slavery.

You are somebody that pulls "facts" from your ass and tries to pass them off as knowledge.

Animals that are treated decently generally behave differently from animals that are abused.

Humans that live in decent circumstances behave differently from humans living in abusive circumstances.

Genes have less to say about behavior than experience.

Thanks for the good laugh. Human behavior is much more complex than you are making it out to be. People's behavior for example changes when they are being watched or not being watched.

 

[Trausti]

Unter is one of those blank slate types who dismisses genetics; and thinks the only thing you can inherit is guilt for slavery.

You are somebody that pulls "facts" from your ass and tries to pass them off as knowledge.

Animals that are treated decently generally behave differently from animals that are abused.

Humans that live in decent circumstances behave differently from humans living in abusive circumstances.

Genes have less to say about behavior than experience.

Still ignorant of twin studies, I see.

 

[untermensche]

You are somebody that pulls "facts" from your ass and tries to pass them off as knowledge.

Animals that are treated decently generally behave differently from animals that are abused.

Humans that live in decent circumstances behave differently from humans living in abusive circumstances.

Genes have less to say about behavior than experience.

Thanks for the good laugh. Human behavior is much more complex than you are making it out to be. People's behavior for example changes when they are being watched or not being watched.

In what culture are you talking about this human behavior?

Because human behavior is dependent on culture and experience.

Only a fool would deny it.