Netanyahu has lost his fucking mind

[Ford]

Repeating this doesn't make it true.

Which part of this isn't true?

 

[untermensche]

Yeah, that piece of widely-repeated deception.

The early maps show the land belonging to "Palestine"--when in reality the vast majority of it belonged to the government, it was not individually owned.

The 47 map treats the government going from Arab to Jewish as a transfer of land. Nobody's land changed hands in that!

The 48-49 map shows areas in Palestinian hands--when in reality at that point there were no lands under Palestinian control.

Look at the 2012 map.

That is the map that shows the theft of land.

The Palestinians have been surrounded and carved apart. All Western borders have been taken over by Israel.

 

[ksen]

...Is the wrong question.

The question is, why does Netanyahu say that the Grand Muftii had a "central role in fomenting the final solution?"

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/-Ju1w-iDR0o[/YOUTUBE]

The more interesting question is, why does Derec think that assertion is worth defending?

Derec seems to have a habit of defending anyone who is accused of something. It seems to be an extreme version of "giving someone the benefit of the doubt."

well, unless that person is black or a woman.

my apologies if this has been covered already

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yeah, that piece of widely-repeated deception.

The early maps show the land belonging to "Palestine"--when in reality the vast majority of it belonged to the government, it was not individually owned.

The 47 map treats the government going from Arab to Jewish as a transfer of land. Nobody's land changed hands in that!

The 48-49 map shows areas in Palestinian hands--when in reality at that point there were no lands under Palestinian control.

Look at the 2012 map.

That is the map that shows the theft of land.

The Palestinians have been surrounded and carved apart. All Western borders have been taken over by Israel.

That's the only honest one of the bunch.

 

[arkirk]

Look at the 2012 map.

That is the map that shows the theft of land.

The Palestinians have been surrounded and carved apart. All Western borders have been taken over by Israel.

That's the only honest one of the bunch.

Given your own perception problems, how can you comment on ANYBODY'S HONESTY? You see the same ethnic cleansing we all see and somehow seem to ignore the fact that it is progressively more terrible as time passes. I frankly cannot understand your reasons for always siding with Netanyahu who is just a Jewish version of what Hitler wanted to become. He now is even taking the onus for the conceptualization of the Final Solution from Hitler and planting it with the Palestinians. The guy is a Liar and we don't even know his name...is it Netanyahu or is it really Sullivan? Amazing Bibi doesn't seem to have any credit history.

 

[untermensche]

Look at the 2012 map.

That is the map that shows the theft of land.

The Palestinians have been surrounded and carved apart. All Western borders have been taken over by Israel.

That's the only honest one of the bunch.

Fine.

The only honest map clearly shows the results of slow and steady theft.

And that was 3 years ago. The theft has gone on without stop during that time.

Not to mention the terrorist attacks with the military of Gaza.

 

[ZiprHead]

Israeli settler attacks on Palestinians quadruple, says UN

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israeli-settler-attacks-on-palestinians-quadruple-says-un-9062456.html

 

[arkirk]

American sponsored education...dual citizenship...we know very little about this megalomaniac:

 

[Arctish]

The early maps show the land belonging to "Palestine"--when in reality the vast majority of it belonged to the government, it was not individually owned.

1) You haven't shown this to true. You haven't even shown it to be likely.

2) If it's true, then you can tell us which government owned the vast majority of the land, and how it came to be government property. Was the land owned by the British Empire? Or are you conflating communal property, like an extended family's grazing land or a village well, with government property so you can make an inane argument that the forcible transfer from Palestinian control to Zionist control was merely a change in government administration?

You know damn well the Jewish Agency realized early in the 1930s that they couldn't afford to buy all the land they needed to create a Jewish State, and that they didn't want to have Palestinian hold-outs in their planned Zionist communities. You know they decided that ethnic cleansing was the only way they could empty prime real estate and take over the agricultural and commercial property they wanted to claim. And you know that even if the vast majority of land had been government property, taking it by force from the people who lived there was still theft, banditry, strong-arm robbery, pilferage, and larceny.

The 47 map treats the government going from Arab to Jewish as a transfer of land. Nobody's land changed hands in that! The 48-49 map shows areas in Palestinian hands--when in reality at that point there were no lands under Palestinian control.

No, the map shows the handiwork of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, especially the Transfer Committee, and the Haganah/Lehi/Irgun alliance that carried out Plan Dalet, which as we all know was the intentional, deliberate, and calculated seizure of land by force so that the Jewish State might have the most advantageous position possible given its resources. They took land and property from the Palestinians who owned it, lived there, and had legal claim to it under the Ottomans and the British Mandate, and transferred it to themselves.

Of course, nowadays Zionist apologists simply claim the land was empty ("a land without a people for a people without a land") or that some government somewhere owned it so that makes the transfer of control (at gunpoint) okay. Occasionally, people who know nothing about the actual history of the conflict are persuaded to believe it. But that doesn't make it true.

 

[angelo]

They stole the land. What don't you understand about that?

Repeating it ad-nauseum doesn't make it true.

The only actual land theft was by the Arabs, not the Jews.

The formation of Israel changed the government of the land, it didn't change the ownership of the land itself. If you owned a plot of land you still owned a plot of land. Now, there was land lost when people sided with the Arabs and left--then weren't allowed back without agreeing to be peaceful.

Now, there was a lot of actual land loss in the other direction--most Jews in Arab lands lost their land and anything else they couldn't quickly pack up and take with them.

On creation of the state of Israel, there were over 500.000 Jewish refugees from various Arab countries that were expelled.

There's a shit ton of evidence they would settle for less than the extirpation of Jews. There is so much evidence they would gladly accept their own state based on the 1967 borders with a few land swaps, joint control of aquifers, natural resources, borders, and airspace, that arguing otherwise makes you look silly.

When offered 67 + land swaps they walked out, they didn't even counter-offer.

2) The violence predates any Israeli actions whatsoever and thus can't be due to any actions of Israel. Thus any explanation that blames it on Israeli actions is categorically false.

The violence predates the actual formation of the State of Israel. But it does not predate the actions taken in order to form the State of Israel. It does not predate Plan Dalet, the massacre at Deir Yassin, the bombing campaigns, the riots, the kidnappings, the murders, etc. Thus, any word play that attempts to substitute Israeli for Zionist is an attempt to obfuscate and mislead.

I guess you paid no attention to that newspaper I linked. It was nearly 20 years before the formation of Israel.

3) Look at the fate of Jews in Islamist territory. It's been extirpation. Why should we expect anything different this time.

One of the standard definitions of insanity is trying the same thing over and over expecting a different result. Jews in Islamist lands has been tried repeatedly, the result is always the same.

Factually and historically incorrect.

You know perfectly well the reason there were Jews in the Middle East at the beginning of the 20th century is because they had been living peacefully with their Muslim and Christian neighbors under the Ottomans for centuries. You know that Jews in Turkey flourished under Muslim rule while Jews in Europe were being treated horribly by Christians. You know this. So forget about peddling that blather about how Jews have to keep the non-Jews under military occupation because it's just not possible for them to live otherwise. That bit of Zionist propaganda is demonstrably false.

Peace does not mean total annihilation of the other side. It doesn't even mean victory. It means two sides agree to stop fighting, and then they do it.

1) There weren't really any Islamist states at the time.

2) The Jews only lived reasonably peacefully in Muslim lands because they existed as second-class citizens. When the Jews in Israel rebelled most of the rest were extirpated.

 

[angelo]

The only actual land theft was by the Arabs, not the Jews.

You can say "Jews" because the only people with any real power in Israel are Jews. It is a religious state in action.

But Israel has been stealing land non-stop for the past few decades.

To deny it is simply to lie. To be dismissed as an ignorant know nothing.

Whatever land is "stolen" is land that would constitute Israel proper in any peace settlement, even if the 67 borders are used as any guide.

 

[Jayjay]

Repeating it ad-nauseum doesn't make it true.

The only actual land theft was by the Arabs, not the Jews.

The formation of Israel changed the government of the land, it didn't change the ownership of the land itself. If you owned a plot of land you still owned a plot of land. Now, there was land lost when people sided with the Arabs and left--then weren't allowed back without agreeing to be peaceful.

Now, there was a lot of actual land loss in the other direction--most Jews in Arab lands lost their land and anything else they couldn't quickly pack up and take with them.

On creation of the state of Israel, there were over 500.000 Jewish refugees from various Arab countries that were expelled.

So? How does that justify expelling and taking land from some other group of people who had no responsibility whatsoever in it?

Besides you have the timeline backwards. Israel expelled the Palestinians first, and the Arab countries kicked out most of their Jews as a response after the war. Besides, the newly founded state of Israel actively encouraged the emigration of Jewish people from Arab lands.

 

[angelo]

You can say "Jews" because the only people with any real power in Israel are Jews. It is a religious state in action.

But Israel has been stealing land non-stop for the past few decades.

To deny it is simply to lie. To be dismissed as an ignorant know nothing.

Here is a graphic to show the loss:

This is an outright Palestinian fraud and if you were balanced in any way you'd know that. That's absolutely disgusting, using that false propaganda!

 

[Arctish]

Repeating it ad-nauseum doesn't make it true.

The only actual land theft was by the Arabs, not the Jews.

The formation of Israel changed the government of the land, it didn't change the ownership of the land itself. If you owned a plot of land you still owned a plot of land. Now, there was land lost when people sided with the Arabs and left--then weren't allowed back without agreeing to be peaceful.

Now, there was a lot of actual land loss in the other direction--most Jews in Arab lands lost their land and anything else they couldn't quickly pack up and take with them.

On creation of the state of Israel, there were over 500.000 Jewish refugees from various Arab countries that were expelled.

That 500,000 number comes from counting Jewish immigrants from Arab lands who arrived in Israel between 1948 and 1972. The only reason for making the timeframe so long is so that French Jews who quietly and voluntarily emigrated to Israel when Algeria became independent can be included. It's not an accounting of people who were forced out at gunpoint and ethnically cleansed from their 1,000+ years old communities, although there were a lot of them.

Anyway, you can't use what happened to people in Algeria in 1968 to justify what happened to people in Palestine in 1947. You can't even use what happened to people in Germany in 1944 to justify it, although those events makes it at least understandable.

 

[angelo]

That's the only honest one of the bunch.

Given your own perception problems, how can you comment on ANYBODY'S HONESTY? You see the same ethnic cleansing we all see and somehow seem to ignore the fact that it is progressively more terrible as time passes. I frankly cannot understand your reasons for always siding with Netanyahu who is just a Jewish version of what Hitler wanted to become. He now is even taking the onus for the conceptualization of the Final Solution from Hitler and planting it with the Palestinians. The guy is a Liar and we don't even know his name...is it Netanyahu or is it really Sullivan? Amazing Bibi doesn't seem to have any credit history.

Ethnic cleansing was done in Kosovo, Ruanda, Arab lands which have not a single xtian and Jew left within their borders not Israel which even has Arab members of the Knesset!

 

[angelo]

On creation of the state of Israel, there were over 500.000 Jewish refugees from various Arab countries that were expelled.

So? How does that justify expelling and taking land from some other group of people who had no responsibility whatsoever in it?

Besides you have the timeline backwards. Israel expelled the Palestinians first, and the Arab countries kicked out most of their Jews as a response after the war. Besides, the newly founded state of Israel actively encouraged the emigration of Jewish people from Arab lands.

You have it arse up! The moment the UN declared a partition creating a Jewish state, it was attacked on all sides by far more numerically Arab armies which had their arses kicked after a long struggle and thousands of casualties on both sides. Many Palestinian fled the violence, creating half a million refugees which were refused asylum by the other Arab nations.

 

[angelo]

On creation of the state of Israel, there were over 500.000 Jewish refugees from various Arab countries that were expelled.

That 500,000 number comes from counting Jewish immigrants from Arab lands who arrived in Israel between 1948 and 1972. The only reason for making the timeframe so long is so that French Jews who quietly and voluntarily emigrated to Israel when Algeria became independent can be included. It's not an accounting of people who were forced out at gunpoint and ethnically cleansed from their 1,000+ years old communities, although there were a lot of them.

Anyway, you can't use what happened to people in Algeria in 1968 to justify what happened to people in Palestine in 1947. You can't even use what happened to people in Germany in 1944 to justify it, although those events makes it at least understandable.

Fucking bullshit!!! How many Jews are today living in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Syria, Iraq, iran?

 

[Arctish]

That 500,000 number comes from counting Jewish immigrants from Arab lands who arrived in Israel between 1948 and 1972. The only reason for making the timeframe so long is so that French Jews who quietly and voluntarily emigrated to Israel when Algeria became independent can be included. It's not an accounting of people who were forced out at gunpoint and ethnically cleansed from their 1,000+ years old communities, although there were a lot of them.

Anyway, you can't use what happened to people in Algeria in 1968 to justify what happened to people in Palestine in 1947. You can't even use what happened to people in Germany in 1944 to justify it, although those events makes it at least understandable.

Fucking bullshit!!! How many Jews are today living in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Syria, Iraq, iran?

What part is bullshit?

The number is for Jewish immigrants from Arab countries between the years 1948-1972. It's a lumped together sum that does not distinguish between people forced out at gunpoint and people who moved to Israel of their own volition more than 20 years after the State of Israel was founded. Even if they were forced out at gunpoint, you can't use their experiences to justify a use of force that happened earlier.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That's the only honest one of the bunch.

Fine.

The only honest map clearly shows the results of slow and steady theft.

And that was 3 years ago. The theft has gone on without stop during that time.

Not to mention the terrorist attacks with the military of Gaza.

Except the division has been basically fixed by the wall--that was a lot more than 3 years ago.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Israeli settler attacks on Palestinians quadruple, says UN

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israeli-settler-attacks-on-palestinians-quadruple-says-un-9062456.html

The UN is not remotely a credible source in Israel/Palestine issues.

An awful lot of those "price tag" attacks are really internal Palestinian issues or outright fabrications. (Look at how many of them happen on the Sabbath? An observant Jew certainly isn't going to do that!)