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Netanyahu has lost his fucking mind

Bibi is attempting the mother of all Godwin Fallacies, effectively claiming that the Grand Mufti hated Jews more than Hitler did.
How is that a "Godwin fallacy", much less a "mother of all" of them? Godwin refers to improperly comparing something that has nothing to with Nazis with Nazis. "Obama is like Hitler because of Obamacare" would be an example of Godwin fallacy. "Bush is like Hitler because of the Iraq war" would be another. Comparing a well known major Nazi collaborator with Nazis is not an example of Godwin.
 
"That's because the Palestinians ARE to blame for the holocaust!"

Nope, but this one guy closely collaborated with the Nazis around the time Endlösung was decided and was a rabid anti-Semite. Is it that ridiculous or outlandish to suggest he might have played a role in the decision? While we probably will never know for sure, it certainly doesn't mean Bibi "lost his fucking mind" for suggesting it.
What is very unfortunate is this myth of sole German responsibility, as if willing collaborators abroad had nothing to do with Nazi atrocities. And the Grand Mufti was a very willing collaborator indeed.
 
"That's because the Palestinians ARE to blame for the holocaust!"

Nope, but this one guy closely collaborated with the Nazis around the time Endlösung was decided and was a rabid anti-Semite. Is it that ridiculous or outlandish to suggest he might have played a role in the decision? While we probably will never know for sure, it certainly doesn't mean Bibi "lost his fucking mind" for suggesting it.
What is very unfortunate is this myth of sole German responsibility, as if willing collaborators abroad had nothing to do with Nazi atrocities. And the Grand Mufti was a very willing collaborator indeed.
The role would have be minimal. The logistics required to have pulled off the Holocaust is astounding. A ton of Nazis were needed to even put the pieces together. To toss in the Palestinians in order to tarnish their image for political gain is reprehensible.
 
The role would have be minimal. The logistics required to have pulled off the Holocaust is astounding.
True. I do not mean to diminish German responsibility, but that does not absolve Al-Husseini of his.

A ton of Nazis were needed to even put the pieces together.
And the Grand Mufti recruited many of them among Bosnian Muslims. Besides Bibi's claim is that Mufti's role was to convince Hitler of the idea, he never claimed that he implemented it himself.

To toss in the Palestinians in order to tarnish their image for political gain is reprehensible.
It should tarnish the image of any Palestinians who revere Al-Husseini or any part of his legacy.
 
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Why this one Mufti hated Israel is because he saw it for what it was. A violent intruder that pushed hundreds of thousands of Palestinians off their land.
First of all, there was no modern state of Israel when he collaborated with the Nazis. Second, he was an anti-Semite who hated Jews and wanted them exterminated and who worked very closely with the Nazis. But, no, to untermensche he is a "victim". :rolleyes::banghead:

You can post your childish pictures all you want.

For the past several decades Palestinians have been victims of massive oppression and violence and theft of their lands.

And as said, this man was responding to Zionism, that force that violently intruding itself into the region and pushed hundreds of thousands of Palestinians off their lands. You know, history.
 
Nope, but this one guy closely collaborated with the Nazis around the time Endlösung was decided and was a rabid anti-Semite. Is it that ridiculous or outlandish to suggest he might have played a role in the decision? While we probably will never know for sure, it certainly doesn't mean Bibi "lost his fucking mind" for suggesting it.
What is very unfortunate is this myth of sole German responsibility, as if willing collaborators abroad had nothing to do with Nazi atrocities. And the Grand Mufti was a very willing collaborator indeed.
The role would have be minimal. The logistics required to have pulled off the Holocaust is astounding. A ton of Nazis were needed to even put the pieces together. To toss in the Palestinians in order to tarnish their image for political gain is reprehensible.

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True. I do not mean to diminish German responsibility, but that does not absolve Al-Husseini of his.
Al-Husseini's role is a red herring to the on going Palestinian - Israel relationship issues which is terribly complicated by factions within both sides acting in different ways to continually endanger peace in the immediate region.

A ton of Nazis were needed to even put the pieces together.
And the Grand Mufti recruited many of them among Bosnian Muslims. Besides Bibi's claim is that Mufti's role was to convince Hitler of the idea, he never claimed that he implemented it himself.
I'm not talking about recruiting people to help in the slaughter. The Holocaust was an engineering marvel of drastic proportions which required incredible discipline and logistical planning (something the Germans have trademarked). Recruiting some people to help isn't what made the Holocaust happen. That was via calculated German logistical planning.

To toss in the Palestinians in order to tarnish their image for political gain is reprehensible.
It should tarnish the image of any Palestinians who revere Al-Husseini or any part of his legacy.
It is a red herring. It just another attempt (albeit incredibly tasteless) to whitewash crimes made on the Israel side of the fence by factions within their own ranks. No peace will come when these factions continue waging their propaganda wars.
 
"That's because the Palestinians ARE to blame for the holocaust!"

Nope, but this one guy closely collaborated with the Nazis around the time Endlösung was decided and was a rabid anti-Semite. Is it that ridiculous or outlandish to suggest he might have played a role in the decision?
yes. Hitler would never have taken seriously a suggestion from a non Aryan. PLUS by the time this meeting took place, the Nazis was already killing Jews. Hitler said back in 1939 he was willing to annihilate Jews from all of Europe.
While we probably will never know for sure, it certainly doesn't mean Bibi "lost his fucking mind" for suggesting it.
Yeah it does. When a world leader says something this outrageous during a day and age of the INTERNET, he has lost his fucking mind. And it is something that was never gonna help his cause and now has the whole world looking at Bibi and saying, WTF????? This is a PR nightmare and he did this to himself. A thinking person does not do this. A crazy person does this. And now Angela Merkel is having to state that Germany takes responsibility for the holocaust in opposition to Bibi. Can you not see how bizarre this all is?
What is very unfortunate is this myth of sole German responsibility, as if willing collaborators abroad had nothing to do with Nazi atrocities. And the Grand Mufti was a very willing collaborator indeed.
 
....Hitler would never have taken seriously a suggestion from a non Aryan....

He didn't take ideas that didn't come from himself very seriously.

He had a few close advisers.

Some Palestinian might be helpful and there is no reason to antagonize him.

But to think Hitler in any way took advice or changed direction because of this Mufti is INSANE.
 
"That's because the Palestinians ARE to blame for the holocaust!"

Nope, but this one guy closely collaborated with the Nazis around the time Endlösung was decided and was a rabid anti-Semite. Is it that ridiculous or outlandish to suggest he might have played a role in the decision? While we probably will never know for sure, it certainly doesn't mean Bibi "lost his fucking mind" for suggesting it.
What is very unfortunate is this myth of sole German responsibility, as if willing collaborators abroad had nothing to do with Nazi atrocities. And the Grand Mufti was a very willing collaborator indeed.
You need to convince the lead historian of the official Jewish Holocaust memorial in Israel. Or is she an example of a lying slut?

While it is not fucking ridiculous for anyone to suggest that this person may have some tiny influence, since the person is long dead, there is no legitimate reason for the prime minister of Israel to mention such a minute possibility.
 
You need to convince the lead historian of the official Jewish Holocaust memorial in Israel. Or is she an example of a lying slut?

While it is not fucking ridiculous for anyone to suggest that this person may have some tiny influence, since the person is long dead, there is no legitimate reason for the prime minister of Israel to mention such a minute possibility.

I think he is trying to justify all the terrible things that Israel has done to the Palestinians over the years.

And what they are doing to them everyday.

Economic and social oppression.
 
You need to convince the lead historian of the official Jewish Holocaust memorial in Israel. Or is she an example of a lying slut?

While it is not fucking ridiculous for anyone to suggest that this person may have some tiny influence, since the person is long dead, there is no legitimate reason for the prime minister of Israel to mention such a minute possibility.

I think he is trying to justify all the terrible things that Israel has done to the Palestinians over the years.
.

Or will do.

I don't think it is any secret that the Israeli government is playing a "long con" on their neighbors. We've all seen the maps where Palestinian territory continues to shrink due to Israeli occupation. Settlement by settlement, block by block, "Greater Israel" is being slowly created, and any land that the Palestinians might have wanted to keep for their own will be gone inside 50 years.

In this process - as it has been so far - a lot of Palestinians are gonna get hurt. A lot are gonna get killed. And while it might seem like Bibi went off half-cocked and made an idiotic statement, I doubt very much that he said that by mistake. He's a very bright, very calculating man. He's Israel's Dick Cheney, only not as subtle. I think this was a sort of trial balloon or dog whistle. In order to carry out the next phase of the takeover of Palestinian land, Bibi and his ideological fellow travelers are going to need support from a segment of the Israeli population. You've already got a segment of the population there (and a few people here) who think the Palestinians are worse than Hitler. Bibi was throwing it out there to see who else might be convinced. If he can get more people thinking that way, the next wave of bulldozing Palestinian homes will be all that much easier.
 
Godless Raven said:
Geezus fuck already...in virtually all of those photos, Obama is looking up at a fucking crowd he's speaking to. One with thousands and thousands of people. The guy was using his body language to address everyone in the crowd.

Max has lost his marbles.

I agree, he is using a mannerism, a pose, to convey an impression...in various circumstances. It is much like or the same mannerism used by Il Duce. However, I will refrain from pressing the point because, after all, it was an aside to the threads subject matter.
 
Godless Raven said:
Geezus fuck already...in virtually all of those photos, Obama is looking up at a fucking crowd he's speaking to. One with thousands and thousands of people. The guy was using his body language to address everyone in the crowd.

Max has lost his marbles.

I agree, he is using a mannerism, a pose, to convey an impression...in various circumstances. It is much like or the same mannerism used by Il Duce. However, I will refrain from pressing the point because, after all, it was an aside to the threads subject matter.

My god, it must be awful to live every minute of every day in mortal fear of a black planet.
 
You need to convince the lead historian of the official Jewish Holocaust memorial in Israel. Or is she an example of a lying slut?

While it is not fucking ridiculous for anyone to suggest that this person may have some tiny influence, since the person is long dead, there is no legitimate reason for the prime minister of Israel to mention such a minute possibility.

Agreed...with BDS and increased scrutiny, more people are aware of what they are doing.

I think he is trying to justify all the terrible things that Israel has done to the Palestinians over the years.

And what they are doing to them everyday.

Economic and social oppression.

With the increased attention of BDS and other scrutiny, this is the case I think.
 
...Is the wrong question.

The question is, why does Netanyahu say that the Grand Muftii had a "central role in fomenting the final solution?"

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/-Ju1w-iDR0o[/YOUTUBE]

The more interesting question is, why does Derec think that assertion is worth defending?

Derec seems to have a habit of defending anyone who is accused of something. It seems to be an extreme version of "giving someone the benefit of the doubt."

He tends to defend white males.
 
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You accused Derec of saying the Palestanians were responsible even though he said this one guy may be responsible. Why did you do that?

...Is the wrong question.

The question is, why does Netanyahu say that the Grand Muftii had a "central role in fomenting the final solution?"

The more interesting question is, why does Derec think that assertion is worth defending?


Do I REALLY have to spell it out for you? Bibi is attempting the mother of all Godwin Fallacies, effectively claiming that the Grand Mufti hated Jews more than Hitler did. He then follows up by associating this hatred with the "Al Aqsa Mosque" to complete his guilt-by-association tripple-decker bullshit sandwich.

You are perfectly welcome to go on pretending not to understand how that argument works, thereby removing yourself from the discussion altogether.

Interesting. I think it equally interesting that one could ask dozens of self-appointed critics about the whole of the speech's points, and most don't have a clue what was even said. The hysteria over Neti's exaggeration based on his speculation contains its own fallacy, and the controversy serves as its own RED HERRING...distracting attention from the Mufti's historical role that most people are ignorant of.

No one knows when and how Hitler backed the final solution. The Wannsee Conference that officially approved the FS was two months after the Mufti met with Hitler. However, by then the execution of Jews by firing squads of SS units in Russia had already begun. There is little or no evidence that the Mufti gave Hitler either the original idea, nor that Hitler had not harbored that idea for many years.

But Neti's historical point survives exaggeration. It is an undisputed fact that the Mufti embraced the idea of exterminating the Jews, and that he pressed his view on the Nazi leadership repeatedly. Inotherword, the Mufti was not the likely source of the idea, but he was the prime foreign cheerleader advocating for it.

So is that supposed to make the Mufti look better?

Moreover, I don't see any of these quoted "experts" stepping forward to denounce Neti's factual response to the hysterics. In sum, Neti stated:

1. Mufti, Haj Amin al-Husseini, was a war criminal and played a central role in encouraging and goading Hitler, Ribbentrop, Himmler and others to exterminate European Jewry.

2.There are many testimonies to this, including the testimony of Eichmann’s deputy at Nuremberg – not now, but after the Second World War. He said:

"The Mufti played a role in the decision of the German government to exterminate the European Jews, the importance of which must not be disregarded. He has repeatedly suggested to the various authorities with whom he has been in contact, above all before Hitler, Ribbentrop and Himmler, the extermination of European Jewry. He considered this as a comfortable solution for the Palestine problem."

Eichmann’s deputy added: “The Mufti was one of the initiators of the diabolical extermination of European Jewry and was a partner and advisor to Eichmann and Hitler in the carrying-out of this plan.”

3. Clearly certain critics seek to provide an apologetic to the important role Hajj Amin al-Husseini, 'the father of the Palestinian nation", played.

Neti's response spoke plainly to his purpose, it was to "show that the father of the Palestinian nation at that time, without a state and without what they call “the occupation”, without Palestinian territories and without settlements, already aspired to destroy the Jews through systematic incitement."

One does not retreat to the overused Godwin criticism, one steps forward and embraces the truth. The Mufti was no better than the NAZI's he supported, and the Palistinian leaders desire for Jewish genocide pre-dates the creation of Israel.
 
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So then how can one say the Palestinians are responsible for anything? This guy in particular was clearly a Holocaust supporter, even if he didn't play any role as an architect of the Holocaust. Why does it matter?

The Palestinians are victims.

The victims of decades of continual abuse and violence and oppression and theft.

Perhaps that might explain why many hate their oppressor.

Why this one Mufti hated Israel is because he saw it for what it was. A violent intruder that pushed hundreds of thousands of Palestinians off their land.

The Palestinians are victims of the Islamists that have been using them as cannon fodder for almost 70 years.
 
I think he is trying to justify all the terrible things that Israel has done to the Palestinians over the years.
.

Or will do.

I don't think it is any secret that the Israeli government is playing a "long con" on their neighbors. We've all seen the maps where Palestinian territory continues to shrink due to Israeli occupation. Settlement by settlement, block by block, "Greater Israel" is being slowly created, and any land that the Palestinians might have wanted to keep for their own will be gone inside 50 years.

In this process - as it has been so far - a lot of Palestinians are gonna get hurt. A lot are gonna get killed. And while it might seem like Bibi went off half-cocked and made an idiotic statement, I doubt very much that he said that by mistake. He's a very bright, very calculating man. He's Israel's Dick Cheney, only not as subtle. I think this was a sort of trial balloon or dog whistle. In order to carry out the next phase of the takeover of Palestinian land, Bibi and his ideological fellow travelers are going to need support from a segment of the Israeli population. You've already got a segment of the population there (and a few people here) who think the Palestinians are worse than Hitler. Bibi was throwing it out there to see who else might be convinced. If he can get more people thinking that way, the next wave of bulldozing Palestinian homes will be all that much easier.

Yes. This is mostly for the crazed Zionist support he seeks in Israel.

With US protection and all those US weapons he has little fear of Iran or any of his neighbors.

A nuke for Iran simply means Israel will not be able to attack Iran with impunity, not much more.

Which is not to say it is a good idea for any more nations to get nukes.
 
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