Netanyahu has lost his fucking mind

[Arctish]

None of this justifies the past 40 years of Israeli oppression.

None of it justifies the non-stop theft of land.

You're missing the point. I'm showing your arguments blaming it on the Jews are false as the same problems existed before the causes you blame them on.

Can you not see the problem with the timeline??

I see the problem with your timeline. You are ignoring everything that happened in Palestine up to 1947.

You have cut off the entire Zionist movement up to that point, the rise of paramilitary and terrorist forces, the escalation of bloodshed, and the social disruption caused by the sudden influx of tens of thousands of European Jews intent on seizing land and resources for a new Jewish State. You are ignoring everything David Ben Gurion, Moshe Sharrett, Menachim Begin, Yosef Weitz, and other prominent Zionists said and did up to that point. Instead, you have selected an Egyptian diplomat's comments in November of 1947 as the starting point of your timeline so you don't have to deal with the actual history of Zionism.

 

[untermensche]

This is pure ignorance.

Palestinians sit on land some crazed Jews want.

That is their crime.

Israelis sit on land some crazed Muslims want.

That is their crime.

No matter how much the sycophants of Israeli oppression want to pretend; Israel is the oppressor and millions of Palestinians are the oppressed.

 

[angelo]

This is pure ignorance.

Palestinians sit on land some crazed Jews want.

That is their crime.

I think that it is a mistake to accept the equivalence of these child-killing Nazi racists with Jews.. Most of those Hitler murdered wouldn't have touched this smelly little Nazi reichlette with a barge-pole. Which of the Brown-House thugs should we see as the Messiah? No - call a spade a spade and a racist shit a nazi say I.

Well, you're either misinformed or wearing Palestinian made blinkers! I forgot, Palestinians are too busy being aggressive to make or produce anything.

 

[untermensche]

I think that it is a mistake to accept the equivalence of these child-killing Nazi racists with Jews.. Most of those Hitler murdered wouldn't have touched this smelly little Nazi reichlette with a barge-pole. Which of the Brown-House thugs should we see as the Messiah? No - call a spade a spade and a racist shit a nazi say I.

Well, you're either misinformed or wearing Palestinian made blinkers! I forgot, Palestinians are too busy being aggressive to make or produce anything.

Their economy has been strangled for the past 40 years.

Newsflash: The Palestinians are not free to trade with the world.

 

[Arctish]

Well, you're either misinformed or wearing Palestinian made blinkers! I forgot, Palestinians are too busy being aggressive to make or produce anything.

Their economy has been strangled for the past 40 years.

Newsflash: The Palestinians are not free to trade with the world.

Don't take the bait, untermensche. I doubt angelo and Loren are prepared to argue about economy of the Palestinian territories aside from noting the fact that Hamas can build rockets.

 

[angelo]

Their economy has been strangled for the past 40 years.

Newsflash: The Palestinians are not free to trade with the world.

Don't take the bait, untermensche. I doubt angelo and Loren are prepared to argue about economy of the Palestinian territories aside from noting the fact that Hamas can build rockets.

Hamas couldn't build a kite let alone rockets which are supplied by outside sources like Iran! When in 2005 Israel made the mistake of withdrawing from Gaza, they thanked them by firing thousands of rockets into Israel. Also, on withdrawing, the Israelis left behind enough infrastructure for the Palestinians to start building a nation. Hundreds of greenhouses were destroyed instead of utilised, because? By the way, everyday hundreds of gazans cross the border into Israel to go work in Jewish factories.

 

[Arctish]

Don't take the bait, untermensche. I doubt angelo and Loren are prepared to argue about economy of the Palestinian territories aside from noting the fact that Hamas can build rockets.

Hamas couldn't build a kite let alone rockets which are supplied by outside sources like Iran!

A political party doesn't build rockets. People build rockets. The people of Palestine have their fair share of builders, techs, and engineers, just like every other group comprised of millions of individuals.

When in 2005 Israel made the mistake of withdrawing from Gaza, they thanked them by firing thousands of rockets into Israel.

You mean when Israel finished building the containment walls and took the Jewish settlers out before shutting the gates? Why would the Palestinians thank them for that? Did the Jews thank the Italians for building the walls around the Ghetto di Roma and locking them up every night?

Also, on withdrawing, the Israelis left behind enough infrastructure for the Palestinians to start building a nation. Hundreds of greenhouses were destroyed instead of utilised, because?

I really, really hope that someday you'll be interested enough in finding the answers to your questions that you'll delve into the history, not just skim a few pages of apologetics. I suspect it's the only way to convince you of the facts. But in the meantime, I'll give you a hint: greenhouse grown plants and produce must reach markets in good time and in good condition in order for the growers to earn enough money to maintain the greenhouses, pay the water bills, and buy the seeds and materials needed for each successive crop, and those seeds and materials have to reach the greenhouses in Gaza. So why do you suppose the Gazans might have had a problem with that?

By the way, everyday hundreds of gazans cross the border into Israel to go work in Jewish factories

Evidence they are hard-working and productive, yes?

 

[angelo]

My gawd, I've been in discussions about Arab-Israeli conflict before elsewhere and in live discussions. Whatever gave me the idea that on this particular forum there may be rational thinking people! If the Jews were to lay down and give up, and let the Arabs completely take over the whole land, from the Jordan to the sea, and be subject to islam and sharia, become islamic slaves, have many Jewish women raped to death, there are some here that would still find fault with the Jews or find something to criticise them for, but not just criticism, but pure hate!

 

[arkirk]

My gawd, I've been in discussions about Arab-Israeli conflict before elsewhere and in live discussions. Whatever gave me the idea that on this particular forum there may be rational thinking people! If the Jews were to lay down and give up, and let the Arabs completely take over the whole land, from the Jordan to the sea, and be subject to islam and sharia, become islamic slaves, have many Jewish women raped to death, there are some here that would still find fault with the Jews or find something to criticise them for, but not just criticism, but pure hate!

You seem unaware of your own special brand of hatred, which you have somehow managed to distill from a lot of right wing propaganda...to the point where you imagine perfectly rational people seem weird to you. This is NOT A JEWISH MATTER. It is a problem with a government in the middle east terrorizing the rest of the place and slowly exterminating the Palestinians. Not all Jews buy Netanyahu's claptrap.

 

[untermensche]

Yes. The poor Jews that have been oppressing and torturing Palestinians for decades.

What these Jews most fear is they know what they deserve for all this abuse.

 

[Jayjay]

My gawd, I've been in discussions about Arab-Israeli conflict before elsewhere and in live discussions. Whatever gave me the idea that on this particular forum there may be rational thinking people! If the Jews were to lay down and give up, and let the Arabs completely take over the whole land, from the Jordan to the sea, and be subject to islam and sharia, become islamic slaves, have many Jewish women raped to death, there are some here that would still find fault with the Jews or find something to criticise them for, but not just criticism, but pure hate!

Nobody is saying Jews should "lay down and give up" or take over the whole land. Only that they stop stealing land and give Palestinians a viable state. But, even if Jews were to pack up and go to Europe, it would probably better than the situation now.

 

[Arctish]

How did "check out the reason the Gaza greenhouse project failed" morph into "Jews should lay down, give up, and be raped to death"?

 

[Selsaral]

How did "check out the reason the Gaza greenhouse project failed" morph into "Jews should lay down, give up, and be raped to death"?

It's a standard tactic. Admitting that Israelis have ever done anything wrong at all MUST equal slavery and rapedeath.

Just like admitting that climate change is occurring MUST equal destruction of our economy.

The two things get linked because it's an effective psychological tactic to avoid changing your ideological beliefs. It only makes sense to fanatics. That's why everyone else seems baffled and confused by it.

 

[iolo]

I think that it is a mistake to accept the equivalence of these child-killing Nazi racists with Jews.. Most of those Hitler murdered wouldn't have touched this smelly little Nazi reichlette with a barge-pole. Which of the Brown-House thugs should we see as the Messiah? No - call a spade a spade and a racist shit a nazi say I.

Well, you're either misinformed or wearing Palestinian made blinkers! I forgot, Palestinians are too busy being aggressive to make or produce anything.

Who could give the Nazi occupiers the right to a single square inch of Palestine? It belongs to the Palestinians, whose ancestors have always lived there, as you know.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Well, you're either misinformed or wearing Palestinian made blinkers! I forgot, Palestinians are too busy being aggressive to make or produce anything.

Who could give the Nazi occupiers the right to a single square inch of Palestine? It belongs to the Palestinians, whose ancestors have always lived there, as you know.

But wouldn't we say that Israel was really the first artificially created state since it was made by the UN and not by the people who could make a claim to it? Should the UN rule that the US was rightfully owned by the native Americans and give it all back to them?

 

[Selsaral]

Who could give the Nazi occupiers the right to a single square inch of Palestine? It belongs to the Palestinians, whose ancestors have always lived there, as you know.

But wouldn't we say that Israel was really the first artificially created state since it was made by the UN and not by the people who could make a claim to it? Should the UN rule that the US was rightfully owned by the native Americans and give it all back to them?

Not sure how helpful it is to stay that draconian in thought. Any acknowledgement of historical wrongdoing requires total annihilation of modern circumstances? Acknowledgement of the sources of the problem should be independent of the solutions to start. And any realistic solution will be a compromise. And I'm not sure how accurate it is to say that UN created it. The UN declared some stuff, but Zionists had been setting groundwork for decades.

 

[coloradoatheist]

But wouldn't we say that Israel was really the first artificially created state since it was made by the UN and not by the people who could make a claim to it? Should the UN rule that the US was rightfully owned by the native Americans and give it all back to them?

Not sure how helpful it is to stay that draconian in thought. Any acknowledgement of historical wrongdoing requires total annihilation of modern circumstances? Acknowledgement of the sources of the problem should be independent of the solutions to start. And any realistic solution will be a compromise. And I'm not sure how accurate it is to say that UN created it. The UN declared some stuff, but Zionists had been setting groundwork for decades.

Except we changed the rules for Israel on how it should become a State. And the change in rules may have made it worse then things in the past. There was no right to return given after WWII.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You're missing the point. I'm showing your arguments blaming it on the Jews are false as the same problems existed before the causes you blame them on.

Can you not see the problem with the timeline??

I see the problem with your timeline. You are ignoring everything that happened in Palestine up to 1947.

You have cut off the entire Zionist movement up to that point, the rise of paramilitary and terrorist forces, the escalation of bloodshed, and the social disruption caused by the sudden influx of tens of thousands of European Jews intent on seizing land and resources for a new Jewish State. You are ignoring everything David Ben Gurion, Moshe Sharrett, Menachim Begin, Yosef Weitz, and other prominent Zionists said and did up to that point. Instead, you have selected an Egyptian diplomat's comments in November of 1947 as the starting point of your timeline so you don't have to deal with the actual history of Zionism.

The newspaper clipping I posted was from around 1930. It was just about a copy of the modern arguments against Jews--despite the fact that the modern arguments are based on things that happened long after 1930.

- - - Updated - - -

Israelis sit on land some crazed Muslims want.

That is their crime.

No matter how much the sycophants of Israeli oppression want to pretend; Israel is the oppressor and millions of Palestinians are the oppressed.

What you are missing is that the real oppressor isn't Israel but the other Arab nations.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, you're either misinformed or wearing Palestinian made blinkers! I forgot, Palestinians are too busy being aggressive to make or produce anything.

Their economy has been strangled for the past 40 years.

Newsflash: The Palestinians are not free to trade with the world.

Before the second intifada the Palestinians had about the best non-oil economy in the Arab world. Prosperity is bad for using people as cannon fodder, the Palestinian leaders picked fight after fight so the Palestinians wouldn't have peaceful options.

- - - Updated - - -

Their economy has been strangled for the past 40 years.

Newsflash: The Palestinians are not free to trade with the world.

Don't take the bait, untermensche. I doubt angelo and Loren are prepared to argue about economy of the Palestinian territories aside from noting the fact that Hamas can build rockets.

We know it's trashed--it's just we realize their leaders chose that path as it was necessary to continue the war.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

My gawd, I've been in discussions about Arab-Israeli conflict before elsewhere and in live discussions. Whatever gave me the idea that on this particular forum there may be rational thinking people! If the Jews were to lay down and give up, and let the Arabs completely take over the whole land, from the Jordan to the sea, and be subject to islam and sharia, become islamic slaves, have many Jewish women raped to death, there are some here that would still find fault with the Jews or find something to criticise them for, but not just criticism, but pure hate!

Nobody is saying Jews should "lay down and give up" or take over the whole land. Only that they stop stealing land and give Palestinians a viable state. But, even if Jews were to pack up and go to Europe, it would probably better than the situation now.

Lots of people say that they don't say Israel should just lay down and give up but the usual formula for peace they propose is just that--they just pretend it would result in peaceful coexistence.

Never mind the Palestinians have made it clear they don't want coexistence.

Never mind that in the time before the Jews took over Israel there wasn't peaceful coexistence but rather subjugation of the Jews.

 

[Jayjay]

Nobody is saying Jews should "lay down and give up" or take over the whole land. Only that they stop stealing land and give Palestinians a viable state. But, even if Jews were to pack up and go to Europe, it would probably better than the situation now.

Lots of people say that they don't say Israel should just lay down and give up but the usual formula for peace they propose is just that--they just pretend it would result in peaceful coexistence.

Never mind the Palestinians have made it clear they don't want coexistence.

Never mind that in the time before the Jews took over Israel there wasn't peaceful coexistence but rather subjugation of the Jews.

Past subjugation of Jews in 19th century hardly justifies subjugation of Palestinians, and that's what the peace offers from Israel have been. Isfrael has also made it clear that they don't want coexistence either, you can hardly blame that solely on the Palestinian side.