New Hampshire Primaries

[Jimmy Higgins]

I agree 100%, but the billionaires of all ideological stripes will not let Bernie win either. If he pulls a miracle upset in the primary, the Dem establishment and media cohorts will not fully support him. And after he loses, they will dishonestly use him as poster boy for why we shouldn't nominate a progressive. We are basically screwed until the apocalypse.

And if Bernie does win the Presidency and if Democrats somehow miraculously take over both the house and senate, I bet you even then Bernie wouldn't be able to push through his full agenda, because the Clintoncrats will stand in his way.

You misspelled southern Democrats and Democrats in purple districts that'll be beaten in the mid-terms like they were in passing ACA in 2010.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yeah, Klobuchar will be the "most radical socialist Democrat candidate ever" if she runs. So would Bloomberg. Just like Biden would have been or Buttigieg or maybe even Sanders. The right-wing will attack them all as being radicals. Selling it will be easier with Sanders, but the difficulty wouldn't stop the GOP from doing their best.

Well yeah. Both parties routinely portray the other party's candidate as the most radical whatever candidate ever". Even Romney was cast as hard right during his 2012 run, and even Kerry was cast as hard left during his 2004 run.

You forgot 'war traitor' for Kerry. Yes, they did advertise him as left of Marx, but the Swift-Boat Vet BS was a pretty dirty thing.

Romney was exaggerated as well... but on the same hand, he seemed to steer himself away from everything that could be said to be decent as Governor of Massachusetts. Also, the whole GOP can't be trusted with power any more was kind of etched in stone after W and the Neocons. Trump just puts the shit stamp on it.

 

[Politesse]

I agree 100%, but the billionaires of all ideological stripes will not let Bernie win either. If he pulls a miracle upset in the primary, the Dem establishment and media cohorts will not fully support him. And after he loses, they will dishonestly use him as poster boy for why we shouldn't nominate a progressive. We are basically screwed until the apocalypse.

I kind of agree. But if we're all screwed anyway, then I'm going to make my political decisions based on my honest opinion and the call of my consicence, whenever possible. I'd rather be right and lose, than be wrong and lose anyhow.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

With the likely dissolving of Biden and Warren, there will be a realignment of supporters. We'll need to see where they all head to before we get a final picture. Also Bloomberg interrupts the calculus, who himself, might hold Buttigieg or Klobuchar away from going ahead of Sanders.

Sanders' issue is he'll be running out of progressive supporters to add to his numbers, and he hasn't seen a wave of turnout from the youth vote that supports him in very good numbers. Buttigieg, Klobuchar, and Bloomberg will be splitting the moderate candidate vote. If that consolidates, Sanders will run into trouble.

On the other hand, Sanders is doing much better with minorities in 2020 than he did in 2016. So he has that advantage over the other three... except Bloomberg.

 

[Politesse]

With the likely dissolving of Biden and Warren, there will be a realignment of supporters. We'll need to see where they all head to before we get a final picture. Also Bloomberg interrupts the calculus, who himself, might hold Buttigieg or Klobuchar away from going ahead of Sanders.

*crosses self*

 

[lpetrich]

Primary results: Bernie Sanders wins state, CNN projects - CNNPolitics - as I write this, it is at 98% counted. But I will use these results to do proportional allocation with 24 delegates.

With no threshold, I find:

• Highest averages (d'Hondt): Sanders 7, Buttigieg 7, Klobuchar 5, Warren 2, Biden 2, Steyer 1
• Largest remainder (Hare): Sanders 6, Buttigieg 6, Klobuchar 5, Warren 2, Biden 2, Steyer 1, Gabbard 1, Yang 1

Using multiples of 3, I find

• Highest averages (d'Hondt): Sanders 9, Buttigieg 6, Klobuchar 6, Warren 3
• Largest remainder (Hare): Sanders 6, Buttigieg 6, Klobuchar 6, Warren 3, Biden 3

With a threshold of 15%, I find:

• Both: Sanders 9, Buttigieg 8, Klobuchar 7
• Mult 3: Sanders 9, Buttigieg 9, Klobuchar 6
• Actual: Sanders 9, Buttigieg 9, Klobuchar 6

 

[lpetrich]

On the Republican side, Trump got all 22 of the state's delegates. With proportional allocation and no threshold, he would have gotten 20 and Bill Weld 2.

Another candidate, Roque "Rocky" De La Fuente, is still in the Republican Presidential race, but with hardly any visibility.

 

[Elixir]

Both parties routinely portray the other party's candidate as the most radical whatever candidate ever". Even Romney was cast as hard right during his 2012 run, and even Kerry was cast as hard left during his 2004 run. Neither of them are any sort of hard extremist.

Yeah, that history makes it kinda tough to tell it like it really is about Trump.
Still, I don't recall the Dems calling Romney a corrupt wannabe dictator and rapist.... but maybe I missed it.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Both parties routinely portray the other party's candidate as the most radical whatever candidate ever". Even Romney was cast as hard right during his 2012 run, and even Kerry was cast as hard left during his 2004 run. Neither of them are any sort of hard extremist.

Yeah, that history makes it kinda tough to tell it like it really is about Trump.
Still, I don't recall the Dems calling Romney a corrupt wannabe dictator and rapist.... but maybe I missed it.

Not every candidate gets accused of being a rapist, just Trump and Clinton (Bill, not Hillary).

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Not every candidate admits to sexual assault, but Twitler did.

 

[Jarhyn]

Both parties routinely portray the other party's candidate as the most radical whatever candidate ever". Even Romney was cast as hard right during his 2012 run, and even Kerry was cast as hard left during his 2004 run. Neither of them are any sort of hard extremist.

Yeah, that history makes it kinda tough to tell it like it really is about Trump.
Still, I don't recall the Dems calling Romney a corrupt wannabe dictator and rapist.... but maybe I missed it.

He WAS fairly liberal back in the 80's, 90's and early 00's, but as time went on he adopted more and more conservative positions publicly. He has always been absolutely wackadoodle when it comes to porn, censorship, and speech (which makes me think he doesn't have a problem being honest about when he does have extreme views...).

My biggest problem is that he allows what are clearly fairly moderate (even liberal) principles to be corrupted and silenced by the party, which forces his conformity. His compromise of his principles for this conformity is troubling, but I can absolutely see how a high office would allow him more leeway to push the GOP left.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yeah, Klobuchar will be the "most radical socialist Democrat candidate ever" if she runs. So would Bloomberg. Just like Biden would have been or Buttigieg or maybe even Sanders. The right-wing will attack them all as being radicals. Selling it will be easier with Sanders, but the difficulty wouldn't stop the GOP from doing their best.

Well yeah. Both parties routinely portray the other party's candidate as the most radical whatever candidate ever". Even Romney was cast as hard right during his 2012 run, and even Kerry was cast as hard left during his 2004 run.

You forgot 'war traitor' for Kerry. Yes, they did advertise him as left of Marx, but the Swift-Boat Vet BS was a pretty dirty thing.

Romney was exaggerated as well... but on the same hand, he seemed to steer himself away from everything that could be said to be decent as Governor of Massachusetts. Also, the whole GOP can't be trusted with power any more was kind of etched in stone after W and the Neocons. Trump just puts the shit stamp on it.

Then there was super secret Muslim Barack Obama... I mean Barack Hussein Obama. There is exaggeration in politics, but one party has the crown of way out of reality campaigning.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

You forgot 'war traitor' for Kerry. Yes, they did advertise him as left of Marx, but the Swift-Boat Vet BS was a pretty dirty thing.

Romney was exaggerated as well... but on the same hand, he seemed to steer himself away from everything that could be said to be decent as Governor of Massachusetts. Also, the whole GOP can't be trusted with power any more was kind of etched in stone after W and the Neocons. Trump just puts the shit stamp on it.

Then there was super secret Muslim Barack Obama... I mean Barack Hussein Obama. There is exaggeration in politics, but one party has the crown of way out of reality campaigning.

He was an extremist who wanted wo implement both the gay agenda and the Muslim sharia agenda, no matter how contradictory that is. And as far as healthcare, he wanted to implement government run healthcare with death panels. Death Panels!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You forgot 'war traitor' for Kerry. Yes, they did advertise him as left of Marx, but the Swift-Boat Vet BS was a pretty dirty thing.

Romney was exaggerated as well... but on the same hand, he seemed to steer himself away from everything that could be said to be decent as Governor of Massachusetts. Also, the whole GOP can't be trusted with power any more was kind of etched in stone after W and the Neocons. Trump just puts the shit stamp on it.

Then there was super secret Muslim Barack Obama... I mean Barack Hussein Obama. There is exaggeration in politics, but one party has the crown of way out of reality campaigning.

He was an extremist who wanted wo implement both the gay agenda and the Muslim sharia agenda, no matter how contradictory that is. And as far as healthcare, he wanted to implement government run healthcare with death panels. Death Panels!

A former co-worker said and I'm quoting, that Obama wanted to "Blackify the nation". She also was one who said her husband really liked Sarah Palin, almost immediately after Palin was named the VP nominee, and I'm thinking that I'm pretty up with the politics and I only vaguely recalled her being the Governor of Alaska when the name was reported... how in the heck does anyone know enough of her to 'really like' her? 12 years later, our Democracy is going to hell.

 

[lpetrich]

Both parties routinely portray the other party's candidate as the most radical whatever candidate ever". Even Romney was cast as hard right during his 2012 run, and even Kerry was cast as hard left during his 2004 run. Neither of them are any sort of hard extremist.

Yeah, that history makes it kinda tough to tell it like it really is about Trump.
Still, I don't recall the Dems calling Romney a corrupt wannabe dictator and rapist.... but maybe I missed it.

He WAS fairly liberal back in the 80's, 90's and early 00's, but as time went on he adopted more and more conservative positions publicly. He has always been absolutely wackadoodle when it comes to porn, censorship, and speech (which makes me think he doesn't have a problem being honest about when he does have extreme views...).

This reminds me of When Mitt Romney Dropped An F-Bomb

Romney denied dropping and F-bomb in the incident, but mentioned he did use the word "H-E-double hockey sticks."

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

He was an extremist who wanted wo implement both the gay agenda and the Muslim sharia agenda, no matter how contradictory that is. And as far as healthcare, he wanted to implement government run healthcare with death panels. Death Panels!

A former co-worker said and I'm quoting, that Obama wanted to "Blackify the nation". She also was one who said her husband really liked Sarah Palin, almost immediately after Palin was named the VP nominee, and I'm thinking that I'm pretty up with the politics and I only vaguely recalled her being the Governor of Alaska when the name was reported... how in the heck does anyone know enough of her to 'really like' her? 12 years later, our Democracy is going to hell.

Palin made the RW media circuit on the Internets. The Republican media machine is very advanced and far reaching. Trump and allies control the whole thing these days...which is how he controls the Party. If anyone steps out of line, it's not merely his fan base that turns on them...it's the whole conservative AM radio, RW websites, Fox news, Vox news, Oan, NRA, National Enquirer, Sun, Telegraph, NY Post, Daily Mail, Breitbart...and that's before all the parroting on facebook and Twitter. So, yeah, of course the guy heard of Palin. But it's much worse now.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

He was an extremist who wanted wo implement both the gay agenda and the Muslim sharia agenda, no matter how contradictory that is. And as far as healthcare, he wanted to implement government run healthcare with death panels. Death Panels!

A former co-worker said and I'm quoting, that Obama wanted to "Blackify the nation". She also was one who said her husband really liked Sarah Palin, almost immediately after Palin was named the VP nominee, and I'm thinking that I'm pretty up with the politics and I only vaguely recalled her being the Governor of Alaska when the name was reported... how in the heck does anyone know enough of her to 'really like' her? 12 years later, our Democracy is going to hell.

Palin made the RW media circuit on the Internets. The Republican media machine is very advanced and far reaching. Trump and allies control the whole thing these days...which is how he controls the Party. If anyone steps out of line, it's not merely his fan base that turns on them...it's the whole conservative AM radio, RW websites, Fox news, Vox news, Oan, NRA, National Enquirer, Sun, Telegraph, NY Post, Daily Mail, Breitbart...and that's before all the parroting on facebook and Twitter. So, yeah, of course the guy heard of Palin. But it's much worse now.

I didn't recall her being anywhere yet. It was just the AM Radio world was glowing over her.

She was selected because she did a great job of becoming Governor without having experience or competence via just making people real angry over one or two things and being populist. Sound familiar?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Palin made the RW media circuit on the Internets. The Republican media machine is very advanced and far reaching. Trump and allies control the whole thing these days...which is how he controls the Party. If anyone steps out of line, it's not merely his fan base that turns on them...it's the whole conservative AM radio, RW websites, Fox news, Vox news, Oan, NRA, National Enquirer, Sun, Telegraph, NY Post, Daily Mail, Breitbart...and that's before all the parroting on facebook and Twitter. So, yeah, of course the guy heard of Palin. But it's much worse now.

I didn't recall her being anywhere yet. It was just the AM Radio world was glowing over her.

She was simultaneously being pushed on the Internet and doing meetings with DC insiders. The pushing by insiders led to more and more pushing on Interwebs and then AM radio, American Spectator, National Review, etc...but her tentacles of power were out for years to be VP:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/10/27/the-insiders

She was selected because she did a great job of becoming Governor without having experience or competence via just making people real angry over one or two things and being populist. Sound familiar?

She put a hockey mom face on RW policy like corporate tax breaks and supporting healthcare companies pre-existing condition exemptions. Right-wing populism is a facade to support institutions of power, money, and control. Since the inception of the Right from when the right side supported the King and the Left supported the people, this is how it has been.

In comparison, Bernie's story isn't Bernie's story at all. Before Bernie was running for President marginalization of the Left was a thing in the Dem Party establishment. The Left recognized a conflicting choice to work inside or outside the Dem Party since before I was born. Prior to Bernie, Dems offered primary tokens they knew they would never support, like Kucinich. That started happening when Dems got influenced too much by corporations instead of liberals and unions. Now, Bernie is outside the Dem Party bringing in many disaffected people. Of course, many won't vote for Bloomberg oligarchy later...

But the point is that the history and structure of left wing populism and right wing faux populism are different. The comparison is not good.

 

[blastula]

I remember hearing about Palin before the nom. She was already a star in conservative circles.

 

[Elixir]

I know a guy who runs a wilderness survival training center in AK, and had Palin as one of his students. He taught her to use a shotgun, and his telling of the episode (at a wilderness medicine conference) was hilarious - that woman really is a dim bulb. I mean, the ability to use a gun is critical if you're going to be traipsing around the Alaska wilderness, but he had definite second thoughts about teaching her how to use one. After day 1 he decided she'd probably use one without knowing how if he declined to teach her, and he didn't want to be responsible for that result. He ended the re-telling with "...but she's NOT allowed to be Vice President!". There were about a dozen doctors and professors gathered round while he was relating the story, and with that line they all bust a gut.