No thread on Patrick Lyoya?

[TomC]

Looked like "suicide by cop".

Looks like murder by cop.

I don't know about that. I think anytime you get physical with a person that has a gun, the outcome is very likely going to be tragic for the non gun person. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes and all that.

Doesn’t make it not murder.

Well maybe suicide is not correct but let's face it, Lyoya must have had some sort of death wish to go grappling with some one with a gun.

Or possibly,
Lyoya was incredibly drunk. A BAC that would put some people in the hospital. And a victim of BLM, who taught him that the cops are the enemy and he is entitled to do whatever he wants.

Who knows what all caused him to try to deal with the traffic stop by assaulting a cop. But he did choose to do that and wound up dead.
It happens.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Nope. I am accusing you of dishonest discourse, of the "just a theory" flavor. a "backstabber" or one who "shoots someone in the back" is "cowardly" because it implies a failure to face your enemy... and you are failing to leverage the feeling of "backstabbing cowardice" in this discussion about two "face to face combatants", while simultaneously gaslighting the fact of your transparently obvious tactic... and that seems to make you frustrated. awwww...

From I gather from that gobbledygook is that you are upset about a straw man.

If you shoot someone in the back, that means they are not facing you. Which means at that moment they cannot possibly be a threat to you. That makes it cowardly.

here are two shits... the absolute most I can possibly give you.

Your modesty is admirable, because that is a vast underestimate.

 

[laughing dog]

Looked like "suicide by cop".

Looks like murder by cop.

I don't know about that. I think anytime you get physical with a person that has a gun, the outcome is very likely going to be tragic for the non gun person. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes and all that.

Suicide requires intent. This guy was just an idiot.

No.
He was a violent drug addled criminal.

As well as an idiot. But being an idiot isn't why he's dead. It's mostly the violent part.
Tom

Mr Lyoya is dead because he was shot in the back of the head. That is the cause of death.

If you can show that the police officer literally had no choice in the shooting, you have an argument. Otherwise, you don't.

 

[TomC]

Mr Lyoya is dead because he was shot in th

Mr Lyoya is dead because he assaulted a cop. If he had not done that he wouldn't be dead.

Well, he might be. People who drive with that much alcohol in their system tend to wind up dead, or worse.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Mr Lyoya is dead because he was shot in th

Mr Lyoya is dead because he assaulted a cop. I

Assaulting a police officer does not result in automatic death. The officer chose to shot him in the back of the head.

f he had not done that he wouldn't be dead.

Well, he might be. People who drive with that much alcohol in their system tend to wind up dead, or worse.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Not his violence.

Yes, it was Lyoya's violence that resulted in his death.
Tom

He's not the one who shot him in the back of the head.

 

[Toni]

Doesn't make it not murder.

If we're going to start coming up with our own definitions of murder, based on our opinions of individual killings, I've got some things to say about abortion.
Tom

So say it.
And please favor us with your reason(s) for saying it, so that discussion might ensue.

If murder is the killing of a human being that one considers wrong, then Toni's post is relevant to this thread.
If not, then it isn't.

She can explain herself and her meaning if she chooses to do so. But she wasn't at all clear. Looked like emotional goading to me.
Tom

I'm honestly not able to understand what you mean because you've constructed your sentences so poorly that it is impossible to discern their meaning.

OTOH, I'm pretty clear that I believe that shooting an unarmed person you have face down and are on top of, point blank in the back of the head is almost certainly murder.

You seem absolutely determined to hem and haw and pussyfoot around what you mean. I'm not certain whether that's because you are embarrassed by what you mean or whether you simply prefer to leave us to guess so that you can tell us we are not understanding you correctly. Maybe I have that wrong. If so, my apologies.

 

[Toni]

Mr Lyoya is dead because he was shot in th

Mr Lyoya is dead because he assaulted a cop. If he had not done that he wouldn't be dead.

Well, he might be. People who drive with that much alcohol in their system tend to wind up dead, or worse.
Tom

What evidence do you have that Mr. Lyoya would not be dead if he had not assaulted a cop? History shows us that police officers far too often shoot unarmed persons who, in fact, have committed zero crimes.

 

[TomC]

Assaulting a police officer does not result in automatic death.

Who suggested that it did?

Nobody I know about.
Tom

 

[Elixir]

Assaulting a police officer does not result in automatic death.

Who suggested that it did?

That it can

 

[TomC]

Mr Lyoya is dead because he assaulted a cop. If he had not done that he wouldn't be dead.

That seems clear enough to me.

I'm honestly not able to understand what you mean because you've constructed your sentences so poorly that it is impossible to discern their meaning.

Maybe the problem is that you can't understand things that upset your biases?
Like your assumptions about cops and violent perps(who happen to be black)? That's what it looks like to me.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Assaulting a police officer does not result in automatic death.

Who suggested that it did?

Nobody I know about.
Tom

You wrote "Mr Lyoya is dead because he assaulted a cop." If you agree that assaulting a police officer does not result in an automatic death, then you are tacitly admitting your statement of "Mr Lyoya is dead because he assaulted a cop." is inaccurate.

 

[TomC]

Assaulting a police officer does not result in automatic death.

Who suggested that it did?

That it can

Who said that it can't?
Nobody.

Assaulting armed people is very dangerous. It's not "automatic death". Usually it doesn't result in injury, much less death. But sometimes it does.
Tom

 

[TomC]

Assaulting a police officer does not result in automatic death.

Who suggested that it did?

Nobody I know about.
Tom

You wrote "Mr Lyoya is dead because he assaulted a cop." If you agree that assaulting a police officer does not result in an automatic death, then you are tacitly admitting your statement of "Mr Lyoya is dead because he assaulted a cop." is inaccurate.

Bullshit. I admitted no such thing.

Mr Lyoya chose extremely dangerous behavior and wound up dead. I also mentioned another guy I know who chose extremely dangerous behavior and wound up dead. It wasn't automatic death. But the kayaker did make the choices and wound up dead.
Tom

 

[Elixir]

Sorry. Shooting someone in the back of the head while they’re face down on the ground isn’t in anyone’s job description.
Unless their job is “murderer”.

 

[ZiprHead]

Not his violence.

Yes, it was Lyoya's violence that resulted in his death.
Tom

No, it's because someone placed a gun to the back of his head and pulled the trigger.

 

[TomC]

Not his violence.

Yes, it was Lyoya's violence that resulted in his death.
Tom

No, it's because someone placed a gun to the back of his head and pulled the trigger.

"Someone"?

You do realize that it wasn't a random stranger, right?
It was someone who is expected to deal with violent drug addled criminals who are a danger to the rest of us, like Lyoya.
Tom

 

[TomC]

Sorry. Shooting someone in the back of the head while they’re face down on the ground isn’t in anyone’s job description.
Unless their job is “murderer”.

Why can't you recognize that Lyoya chose that situation?
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Assaulting a police officer does not result in automatic death.

Who suggested that it did?

Nobody I know about.
Tom

You wrote "Mr Lyoya is dead because he assaulted a cop." If you agree that assaulting a police officer does not result in an automatic death, then you are tacitly admitting your statement of "Mr Lyoya is dead because he assaulted a cop." is inaccurate.

Bullshit. I admitted no such thing.

Actually you did. Clearly if assaulting a police officer does not result in automatic death (something you agree with), then clearly Mr . Lyoya did not have to die from assaulting a cop.

Which means your statement "Mr Lyoya is dead because he assaulted a cop" is false. Mr. Lyoya's assault started a chain of events that resulted in his death, but it was not the cause of his death nor did it necessitate his death.

Your position ignores all the immediate steps between "starting an assault" and Mr. Lyoya's death.

Why can't you recognize the police officer choose to shoot Mr. Lyoya in the back of the head?

 

[Elixir]

Why can't you recognize that Lyoya chose that situation?

Takes two to tango. One was a paid professional, the other was drunk while black.
Doesn’t take a genius, Tom.