Not as important as petty rockets in Israel, but apparently Malaysian Airliner downed by rocket fire

[Kharakov]

What a day, hereunder are 5 news stories that would have topped the front pages if the Ukrainian drama had not happened;
there are people being killed every where and we don't know how to stop.
……………….
At least 22 killed in Baghdad bombings
AAP
July 20, 2014 11:26AM
AT least 22 people have been killed and 74 wounded in five car bombings that hit several parts of the Iraqi capital Baghdad.
THE apparently synchronised attacks occurred in southern and northern Baghdad, targeting neighbourhoods mostly inhabited by Shi'ites..The deadliest bombing took place in the northern district of Khadimiya, leaving seven people dead and 19 injured, an unnamed security official told independent news site Almada
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43 killed when van carrying flammable liquid hits bus in China
By Steven Jiang, CNN
July 20, 2014 -- Updated 0555 GMT (1355 HKT)
A rescue effort is ongoing
Beijing (CNN) -- A van carrying flammable liquid rammed into a bus in China early Saturday, sparking an explosion that left 43 people dead, state media reported.
Both drivers were among the fatalities in the accident in Hunan Province, according to Xinhua news agency. Another person in the van was also killed.
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Bus crash in Germany leaves several dead and scores injured
Nine dead and 43 hurt as three vehicles involved in accident on autobahn near Dresden
Associated Press in Berlin
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theguardian.com, Saturday 19 July 2014 21.00 AEST
Gaza death toll passes 350 as world protests Israeli incursion
Published time: July 19, 2014 21:29
Edited time: July 20, 2014 04:08
Get short URL
Over 350 Palestinians have been killed in Israel’s ongoing operation to root out Hamas fighters it says are hiding in Gaza tunnels. Meanwhile, tens of thousands came out to protest the victims of the invasion, almost 80 percent of whom are civilians.
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Israeli soldiers invade Gaza strip as thousands flee villages
Date
July 20, 2014 - 2:25AM
CITY, Gaza Strip - The first to fall to Israel's ground offensive in the Gaza Strip were the shepherds and farmers of the Bedouin village of Um Al Nasser, who say they saw Israeli soldiers come out of the smoke to order everyone in schoolboy Arabic, "go south!"
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360,000 people are born each day. 152,000 die. Let's focus on the death due to human war, instead of the other forms of violence in the universe. It's so horrific that a few 100 people have died due to human on human violence! The less than 1% of the total casualties is soooo horrible!

 

[Ford]

And what I recently parroted has nothing to do with russian media. It was an official presentation from russian military with a bunch questions to Ukrainian side.

So what you're saying here is that you are parroting Russian media, saying exactly what the Russian media are saying, sourcing all your information from Russian media, freely admit that you are doing so AND that Russian media is "different" (dishonest), but still insist that the information you are passing on here - which comes straight and unfiltered from Russian state media - has absolutely nothing to do with Russian media.


Just checking.

 

[tupac chopra]

The circumstantial evidence pointing to Kievs involvement is growing by the day.

1. An apparently faked youtube video.
2. Fake photos purporting to be a BUK launcher in rebel held territory.
3. Eyewitness reports of Military jets near or accompanying the doomed airliner.
4. Video shots of these planes from the Rostov military centre so the Russians claim.
5. Photos of the Ukranians deploying BUK launchers in South eastern Ukraine.
The Russians are starting to release this evidence, into the public eye where it can be examined.
On the the hand, the USA is claiming to have evidence yet is releasing none. They are liars IMO.
Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles In East, Radar Proof Of Warplanes In MH17 Vicinity

You don't think we are going to provide the data from the satellite, do you? We certainly don't want to show our enemies exactly how sensitive the launch detection birds are!

It's also come to light that at least two countries intercepted the call reporting the shoot-down.

There was no call (singular). There was a pastiche of different recordings put together. one of the recordings was probably real and about a military jet shot down from a much lower altitude.
Somehow you think there was a recording.

 

[barbos]

And what I recently parroted has nothing to do with russian media. .

So you freely admit to parroting Russian media, but claim it has nothing to do with Russian media.

You are not very bright, are you?

 

[Ford]

So you freely admit to parroting Russian media, but claim it has nothing to do with Russian media.

You are not very bright, are you?

You are not very bright, are you?

 

[barbos]

It's also come to light that at least two countries intercepted the call reporting the shoot-down.

Yes, people tend to call and report giant jet plane crashing.
Despite what you were made believe plane crashes are not daily occurrences in Ukraine/Russia

 

[laruan]

360,000 people are born each day. 152,000 die. Let's focus on the death due to human war, instead of the other forms of violence in the universe. It's so horrific that a few 100 people have died due to human on human violence! The less than 1% of the total casualties is soooo horrible!..

.

Well if you put it like that it doesn't matter when or how you die , just end up in the same place that you were always going to, just a matter of fine tuning the timing one way or the other. Say Hallo to Putin when you get there.

 

[barbos]

Latestt news: Malaysian investigators in Donetsk were unable to get to the crash site because they were bombed by ukrainian airforce. They had to turn back and try later.
This would have been horribly ironic if they killed someone.

 

[tupac chopra]

Latestt news: Malaysian investigators in Donetsk were unable to get to the crash site because they were bombed by ukrainian airforce. They had to turn back and try later.
This would have been horribly ironic if they killed someone.

Do you have a link?

 

[barbos]

Latestt news: Malaysian investigators in Donetsk were unable to get to the crash site because they were bombed by ukrainian airforce. They had to turn back and try later.
This would have been horribly ironic if they killed someone.

Do you have a link?

Only in russian, and as we all know, russian media lies.

 

[tupac chopra]

Do you have a link?

Only in russian, and as we all know, russian media lies.

I will put it into google translator, by the time it comes through google it should be the truth

 

[dx713]

So, explain us something.
Why is it so reprehensible when dystopian merely hint at it, while you're fighting tooth and nails for Putin's right to do it on a grand scale?

Please provide evidence of me doing that.

As soon as you're taking Russian "news" about Ukraine at face value, you are supporting Putin's warmongering.
And in this thread, it would be more difficult to find an example of you NOT doing that...

 

[tupac chopra]

Please provide evidence of me doing that.

As soon as you're taking Russian "news" about Ukraine at face value, you are supporting Putin's warmongering.
And in this thread, it would be more difficult to find an example of you NOT doing that...

Well why don't you provide an example?
FFS..we have seen page after page , poster after poster saying they know who did it, and that Putin is involved with supplying any fucking evidence, yet you accuse me of "fighting tooth and nails for Putin's right to do it on a grand scale?" It being get involved in war...and when I ask you to provide evidence of me doing it you come back with that rather pathetic response.

Now if you are going to make this accusations then back it up!!!

 

[tupac chopra]

Meanwhile more news from the Kremlin ...
Oh..hang on...it's not from the Kremlin. It's from a former editor of the Wall Street Journal, and former member of the Reagan administration.
Guilt By Insinuation

How American propaganda works.

Paul Craig Roberts

Why hasn’t Washington joined Russian President Putin in calling for an objective, non-politicized international investigation by experts of the case of the Malaysian jetliner?

The Russian government continues to release facts, including satellite photos showing the presence of Ukrainian Buk anti-aircraft missiles in locations from which the airliner could have been brought down by the missile system and documentation that a Ukrainian SU-25 fighter jet rapidly approached the Malaysian airliner prior to its downing. The head of the Operations Directorate of Russian military headquarters said at a Moscow press conference today (July 21) that the presence of the Ukrainian military jet is confirmed by the Rostov monitoring center.

The Russian Defense Ministry pointed out that at the moment of destruction of MH-17 an American satellite was flying over the area. The Russian government urges Washington to make available the photos and data captured by the satellite.

President Putin has repeatedly stressed that the investigation of MH-17 requires “a fully representative group of experts to be working at the site under the guidance of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO).” Putin’s call for an independent expert examination by ICAO does not sound like a person with anything to hide

.

It is Washington who looks very much like, yet again, they are hiding something. It must be awful for them having given such support to the stooges in Kiev to have to deal with the possibility it was they who brought down the airliner killing US citizens.

Yesterday (July 20) the US Secretary of State, John Kerry confirmed that pro-Russian separatists were involved in the downing of the Malaysian airliner and said that it was “pretty clear” that Russia was involved. Here are Kerry’s words: “It’s pretty clear that this is a system that was transferred from Russia into the hands of separatists. We know with confidence, with confidence, that the Ukrainians did not have such a system anywhere near the vicinity at that point and time, so it obviously points a very clear finger at the separatists.”

Kerry’s statement is just another of the endless lies told by US secretaries of state in the 21st century. Who can forget Colin Powell’s package of lies delivered to the UN about Saddam Hussein’s “weapons of mass destruction” or Kerry’s lie repeated endlessly that Assad “used chemical weapons against his own people” or the endless lies about “Iranian nukes”?

This is not coming from the Kremlin but from an American, and he's far from the only American saying it

 

[dystopian]

The circumstantial evidence pointing to Kievs involvement is growing by the day.

1. An apparently faked youtube video.

Lie of omission; I already pointed out the fact that there is MORE than one video circulating; others which are certainly NOT faked (and I have seen no evidence that the one you're talking about was faked either; simply a russian claim that it is)

2. Fake photos purporting to be a BUK launcher in rebel held territory.

You have zero evidence that these photos are faked, and in fact some of these photos have reliably and independently been sourced to the location in question.

3. Eyewitness reports of Military jets near or accompanying the doomed airliner.

There are no such independently verified eyewitness reports at this time; just random noise on the internet that can't be sourced.

4. Video shots of these planes from the Rostov military centre so the Russians claim.

Russian claims have exactly zero credibility at this point.

5. Photos of the Ukranians deploying BUK launchers in South eastern Ukraine.

Provide these photos. Make sure these photos have clear landmarks in them that along with ample geolocation information can be used to verify the location. Then provide evidence that the ukrainian launchers were within range of the plane when it was shot down and explain how this conflicts with the detection of a missile launch within rebel controlled territory. I sincerely doubt you can provide even one of these details, let alone all of them.

The Russians are starting to release this evidence, into the public eye where it can be examined.

No such evidence has been forthcoming from the Russians. All we've heard is russian spokespeople making claims. Again, provide this evidence.

On the the hand, the USA is claiming to have evidence yet is releasing none. They are liars IMO.
Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles In East, Radar Proof Of Warplanes In MH17 Vicinity

This is NOT Russia 'releasing its evidence'; this is Russia showing a bunch of random and hard to interpret maps expecting that gullible people like yourself believe it constitutes evidence. It does not. Maps do not constitute evidence.

RUSSIA SAYS U.S. SATELLITE FLEW OVER MH17 AT TIME IT WAS DOWNED... which would provide all the proof needed to show who is responsible - so why hasn't the US explained this or shown it?

US satellites fly over pretty much every spot on earth at every moment. Saying that one of their satellites was over the region tells us nothing since it could be any kind of satellite. But of course, the US DID detect a missile launch, which they have stated quite clearly; if the satellite is the means by which they detected it, then what exactly is your objection?

RUSSIA ASKS U.S. FOR EVIDENCE ROCKET FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
RUSSIA: NO U.S. PROOF THAT MISSILE FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA

This is just propaganda meant to confuse and stir up their own populace. Who gives a shit what they say or ask for? Throughout this entire crisis the Russians have said one thing then done another; their credibility is completely gone and their words have become next to meaningless.

 

[dystopian]

Russian media is different, that's true. Does not make it worse than what is currently going on in the Wesern Media.

No, actually, Russian media is OBJECTIVELY far worse than western media.

I have explained to you before that Russia ranks an appalling 148 out of 180 on the World Press Freedom index, an independent list compiled and published by Reporters Without Borders; a non-profit/non-government international agency dedicated to freedom of information and the press. The United States does far better, coming in at 46 out of 180 while the 15 most free countries are all European (and thus, part of the 'western media'). Finland, the Netherlands, and Norway are the top three in that order.

As such, it is blatantly dishonest to claim that Russian media is not worse than what is currently going on in the western media (which western media? American? German? Dutch? Norwegian? French? They're all 'western media', and it is mindboggingly ignorant to generalize about them all as if they're some monolithic entity).

 

[dystopian]

This is not coming from the Kremlin but from an American, and he's far from the only American saying it

Who gives a shit? Roberts makes a career out of casting doubt on just about everything the US government does. Not to mention he's a 9/11 conspiracy nut. Not exactly a credible person to be listening to if you ask me; but even if he was, so what? Just because he's naieve enough to believe Putin when he says stuff doesn't mean anything to the rest of us. We've seen putin say one thing and do another so many times these past few months that he has no credibility left when he claims to support an independent investigation. He thinks that putin calling for that doesn't sound like a person with something to hide; however we hear the same shit from regular high level criminals all the time: when they call for an 'objective' investigation, they're not *really* calling for an objective investigation, but are instead trying to poison the well, insinuating that whatever investigation has or is taking place is not objective. In other words, putin's covering his own ass: he doesn't want an objective investigation, he wants an excuse to dismiss the results of any investigation as being biased.

 

[barbos]

Russian media is different, that's true. Does not make it worse than what is currently going on in the Wesern Media.

No, actually, Russian media is OBJECTIVELY far worse than western media.

I have explained to you before that Russia ranks an appalling 148 out of 180 on the World Press Freedom index, an independent list compiled and published by Reporters Without Borders; a non-profit/non-government international agency dedicated to freedom of information and the press. The United States does far better, coming in at 46 out of 180 while the 15 most free countries are all European (and thus, western media). Finland, the Netherlands, and Norway are the top three.

As such, it is blatantly dishonest to claim that Russian media is not worse than what is currently going on in the western media (which western media? American? German? Dutch? Norwegian? French? They're all 'western media', and it is mindboggingly ignorant to generalize about them all as if they're some monolithic entity).

Such rankings are heavily biased and pretty worthless.
But yes, there is not much freedom on russian established media (TV/radio)
internet is bit more free.
But that's not relevant to the current situation.
What we have here is western media covering for their politicians lying.
They are free to call these lies but they are not doing it for some reasons, and it is very disappointing.
It looks like most politicians and western media decided to gang up on Russia.
I can read/watch both and it is painfully obvious that this is what is happening.
I expected from the West more than that.

 

[dystopian]

Such rankings are heavily biased and pretty worthless.

No, they're not. The only reason you can even say this is because to accept anything else is to admit you are entirely wrong. The index is neither biased nor worthless; but based on the objective gathering and analysis of data.

But yes, there is not much freedom on russian established media (TV/radio)
internet is bit more free.

Internet is hardly more free in Russia; and no more trustworthy when it's been known for quite a while that the government hires large numbers of people to spam forums and sites with pro-russian commentary.

What we have here is western media covering for their politicians lying.

There is no such covering going on, and you have no evidence of them lying about anything in this incident.

It looks like most politicians and western media decided to gang up on Russia.
I can read/watch both and it is painfully obvious that this is what is happening.
I expected from the West more than that.

Bullshit. Russia has brought this on itself with its behavior. No sympathy whatsoever for them being "ganged up" on. Which, incidentally they're not. My country (you know, the one from which the majority of victims come from) has consistently avoiding assigning blame anywhere. Our PM has repeatedly stated that while they have strong evidence for who did it, they're not currently assigning blame anywhere. And I remind you that my government has done this having lost the most and after the despicable and dishonorable behavior of Russia towards us these past few years in a string of incidents. So don't you dare sit there, lying about we're ganging up on your chosen patrons.

 

[dystopian]

In non-russian state media news:

It's being reported that according to Michael Bociurkiw, spokesperson for the OSCE, the wreckage has been deliberately tampered with. The tail section looks different now than when they first encountered it, with large sections of it cut into into. He's also said that the cockpit was being worked over with electric saws by men in uniform who refused to explain what they were doing and why.

Now why the fuck would the rebels be tampering with the wreckage if not to hide the evidence it was them?