Not as important as petty rockets in Israel, but apparently Malaysian Airliner downed by rocket fire

[barbos]

Plot thickens, apparently Putin was flying in the vicinity (40 minutes later) and some say Ukrainians were trying to shoot him.
That's some serious shit.

Sorry, but you are reaching. The plane was shot down over area that is controlled by the Russian wannabees. The wannabees have the Buk (Ukranian's don't). They've already shot down two previous aircraft with it. And now it appears that intelligence have intercepted wannabees bragging about shooting down the aircraft. It appears that they thought that it was a warplane.

I am just parroting news report.

 

[bilby]

Well I wouldn't like to be the guy who made the firing decision on this one. His commander will throw the Buk at him.


(Too soon?)

 

[barbos]

I may be a little early, but I'm calling it: Ukrainian rebels shot down the aircraft with Soviet built and delivered Buk missile system. It further appears that the rebels thought that they were shooting at a military jet. Obviously, Putin Ukrainian Army never should have given such sophisticated weapon to bozos with no training. Putin is to blame. Now is a very dangerous time. It's pretty damn easy to fool Russian citizens that a conspiracy against Putin is happening American citizens into blaming Puting for everything.

Fixed for you.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Well I wouldn't like to be the guy who made the firing decision on this one. His commander will throw the Buk at him.


(Too soon?)

Yes, too soon. It's a very sad story. Maybe some good would come out of it if the Russian special forces would leave Ukraine, and the war there stopped.

 

[Ford]

I may be a little early, but I'm calling it: Ukrainian rebels shot down the aircraft with Soviet built and delivered Buk missile system. It further appears that the rebels thought that they were shooting at a military jet. Obviously, Putin Ukrainian Army never should have given such sophisticated weapon to bozos with no training. Putin is to blame. Now is a very dangerous time. It's pretty damn easy to fool Russian citizens that a conspiracy against Putin is happening American citizens into blaming Puting for everything.

Fixed for you.

Except for the reports of Russian backed separatists conferring with Russian intelligence over the shoot-down.

http://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2ayjwz/malaysian_plane_crashes_over_the_ukraine/cj07o5c

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I may be a little early, but I'm calling it: Ukrainian rebels shot down the aircraft with Soviet built and delivered Buk missile system. It further appears that the rebels thought that they were shooting at a military jet. Obviously, Putin never should have given such sophisticated weapon to bozos with no training. Putin is to blame. Now is a very dangerous time. It's pretty damn easy to fool Russian citizens that a conspiracy against Putin is happening. Putin can either escalate to create confusion, or do the right thing, back down, deescalate the situation, and quit arming the seperatists.

You just gave me a very nasty thought:

Perhaps they knew exactly what they were shooting at and wanted to make it look like a shot at Putin that missed--an attempt to frame the Ukrainians.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

They have their conversations. There's no conspiracy or deeper meaning. It's just the fuck up it appears to be. They thought they were shooting down a war plane and it turned out to be a civilian jet.

 

[barbos]

Fixed for you.

Except for the reports of Russian backed separatists conferring with Russian intelligence over the shoot-down.

http://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2ayjwz/malaysian_plane_crashes_over_the_ukraine/cj07o5c

If audio is real then it's clear that rebels did that.

For these who don't speak russian
It is few separate phone conversation.
First one is very short and contains only voice of the "Bes", no sound from Heranin, just text.

the rest are the separate conversations between rebels which display ukrainian accent of different thickness, which is normal for people who were born in the region, russian or ukrainian.

Also that Kozicin dude which looks like a (russian?) general with a lot of hardware on the chest, most of his and his counterpart conversation is not present in the audio, it looks as if it was deliberately muted

So it looks like rebels shot that plane using Buk Ukrainian Army "supplied" to them on June 29.

 

[tupac chopra]

They have their conversations.

They have a youtube video posted by Kiev. Apparently that totally convinces you. Why?

There's no conspiracy or deeper meaning. It's just the fuck up it appears to be. .

Looks like the fuck up might have been diverting the plane away from it's usual path to a path over restricted airspace. And Kiev would have done that presumably
Was Flight MH-17 Diverted Over Restricted Airspace?

While there are various questions that have already emerged from what was supposed to be Ukraine's "slam dunk" proof confirming Russian rebel involvement in today's MH-17 tragedy, perhaps one just as gaping question emerges when one looks at what is clearly an outlier flight path in today's final, and tragic, departure of the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777.

Perhaps the best visualization of what the issue is, comes from Vagelis Karmiros who has collated all the recent MH-17 flight paths as tracked by Flightaware and shows that while all ten most recent paths pass safely well south of the Donetsk region, and cross the zone above the Sea of Azov, it was only today's tragic flight that passed straight overhead Donetsk.

The youtube clip is itself suspicious in that it is split into two parts. In the seond part two mysterious anonymous men give the incrminating information.

In the clip, Ukraine presents what it alleges are several recorded conversations, first of all between a pro-Russian separatist and his coordinator Vasyl Geranin, who is said to be a colonel of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces. In summary, this conversation talks about the downing of a jet. There is no distinction whether this is a civilian or a military jet, and may well refer to the shot down Ukrainian Su-25 which we reported earlier today was shot down overnight, and which Ukraine at first claimed had been shot down by a Russian warplane, something which Russia promptly denied hours later (and before the Malaysian Airline tragedy happened).

The purported smoking gun is "revealed" in the second section which begins 43 seconds and lasting one minute in between a "Major" and "Grek" who are also allegedly Russian rebels. It is here that the conversation goes into explicit detail describing the contents of the downed airplane, and makes it clear that it is a civilian airplane, describing the civilian carnage, and stopping just why of naming this a Malaysian Airlines flight.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

When faced with the choice between an overly complex and intricate conspiracy and a simple, stupid fuck up, I go with the fuck up.

 

[barbos]

They have their conversations. There's no conspiracy or deeper meaning. It's just the fuck up it appears to be. They thought they were shooting down a war plane and it turned out to be a civilian jet.

Agreed

 

[tupac chopra]

When faced with the choice between an overly complex and intricate conspiracy and a simple, stupid fuck up, I go with the fuck up.

I prefer the approach where we look at the evidence and try to put it together, but that's just me.

And the evidence is that
1. It appears the plane was diverted.
2. There is no evidence that eastern rebels had the kind of rocket launcher required.

You can't hand wave these things away and rely on a youtube video, and call your explanation simple.

 

[Ford]

When faced with the choice between an overly complex and intricate conspiracy and a simple, stupid fuck up, I go with the fuck up.

Oh, there was certainly a stupid fuck up.

There's another conflict going on right now that's competing for what used to be called column inches in the news.

A rag tag bunch of freedom fighters/terrorists (depending on which side of Abraham you fall on) have been fighting a first world military over a little strip of land.

The rag tag guys are supported by a regional power known to scrap occasionally with western powers - albeit by proxy - and while that regional power has not inconsiderable military capacity, what do they give the freedom fighter/terrorists?


Parts.

They don't even give them arms. They give them the parts and the know-how necessary to construct wildly inaccurate rockets which may or may not be powerful enough to damage a roof or two should they hit somewhere near their intended target.


Why does this regional power in question only give the people they support shitty rocket parts? Because for all the rhetoric about them wanting to "destroy" Israel, Iran is smart enough to know that if they handed any of their arguably more advanced weapons systems over to Hamas, Hamas would use them to cause some actual damage and the blow back would head right back to Tehran.

Putin, for all his shirtless horseback riding machismo, is apparently a few orders of magnitude more stupid than the Iranians. Vlad...Vlad...Vlad! If you're supporting "freedom fighters" in their "struggle against oppression," you don't give them strategic weapons or the ability to use them.


Jesus H. Fucking Christ, Vlad! Of course these guys were going to fuck up. Instead of giving them a shitload of old Kalashnikovs, they got their hands on an advanced weapons system that can shoot down aircraft well out of the range of any shoulder launched missile, your guys taught them how to use it and/or gave them people who knew how, and said "hey, defend Mother Russia from any who would attack her!"


What's next, Vlad? Are the "separatists" going to get their hands on a nuclear attack sub, start "accidentally" sinking cruise ships while you sit there and claim you have no idea how they figured out how to fire the torpedoes?

 

[Harry Bosch]

When faced with the choice between an overly complex and intricate conspiracy and a simple, stupid fuck up, I go with the fuck up.

I prefer the approach where we look at the evidence and try to put it together, but that's just me.

And the evidence is that
1. It appears the plane was diverted.
2. There is no evidence that eastern rebels had the kind of rocket launcher required.

You can't hand wave these things away and rely on a youtube video, and call your explanation simple.

Are you watching the news? The Jet was diverted to the north due to a large storm in the south. There are pictures that the rebels have the BOK missiles. An AP news crew saw them with it, then filmed them. Then they shot three Ukranian military jets from the sky using them.

 

[tupac chopra]

Putin, for all his shirtless horseback riding machismo, is apparently a few orders of magnitude more stupid than the Iranians. Vlad...Vlad...Vlad! If you're supporting "freedom fighters" in their "struggle against oppression," you don't give them strategic weapons or the ability to use them.

There is no evidence that Putin gave them the kind of weapons needed to bring down this plane. Zilch Zero Nil Nada Nothing.
The only evidence is a ridiculous youtube video

Take that video out of the picture and all we know is a flight was probably shot down with the kind of hardware that Kiev or Russia had but that the rebels did not have.

 

[barbos]

When faced with the choice between an overly complex and intricate conspiracy and a simple, stupid fuck up, I go with the fuck up.

I prefer the approach where we look at the evidence and try to put it together, but that's just me.

And the evidence is that
1. It appears the plane was diverted.

it's interesting but it comes from unknown source.

2. There is no evidence that eastern rebels had the kind of rocket launcher required.

Actually there is.

You can't hand wave these things away and rely on a youtube video, and call your explanation simple.

Well, if these are actors then they are damn good ones to produce such a genuine looking recording.
I am talking about parts of conversation which directly discuss Malaysian plane of course.
Garanin part seems does not have relation to this particular plane.

 

[Ford]

There is no evidence that Putin gave them the kind of weapons needed to bring down this plane. Zilch Zero Nil Nada Nothing.

Yeah, somehow a bunch of angry villagers stumbled upon an advanced missile system, figured out how to use it, and accidentally started firing at random aircraft.

I mean, who knew this stuff could shoot down planes?

 

[tupac chopra]

I prefer the approach where we look at the evidence and try to put it together, but that's just me.

And the evidence is that
1. It appears the plane was diverted.
2. There is no evidence that eastern rebels had the kind of rocket launcher required.

You can't hand wave these things away and rely on a youtube video, and call your explanation simple.

Are you watching the news? The Jet was diverted to the north due to a large storm in the south. There are pictures that the rebels have the BOK missiles. An AP news crew saw them with it, then filmed them. Then they shot three Ukranian military jets from the sky using them.

Do you have a source? Thanks

 

[tupac chopra]

Well, if these are actors then they are damn good ones to produce such a genuine looking recording.
I am talking about parts of conversation which directly discuss Malaysian plane of course.
Garanin part seems does not have relation to this particular plane.

No one else can talk but good actors? The video just has some people talking.

 

[tupac chopra]

Fixed for you.

Except for the reports of Russian backed separatists conferring with Russian intelligence over the shoot-down.

http://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2ayjwz/malaysian_plane_crashes_over_the_ukraine/cj07o5c

Do you even understand what you linked to? It's at least two different converstaions put together.
One real converstaion and then a phony one. First we have the real conversation about a downed military aircraft. This is about the military plane shot down earlier.

Bes - "A plane has just been shot down. "Miner's" group did it. It fell down a bit further of Enakievo" Heranin "Pilots - where are pilots?"
Bes: "Gone to search for and take pictures of the aircraft taken down. Smoking..."
Heranin: "How much minutes ago?"
Bes "About 30 minutes ago"

Then we have some misdirection to fool the simple minded.Some bullshit put in there to tell you what to think.

After looking around of crash site terrorists have come to conclusion that they had taken down a civil aircraft
Conversation between "Major" and "Hrek: follows:

Then we have the phony conversation to make it look like the rebels did it. where conveniently they say just who did it.

Hrek: "Yes, Major!"
Major: "So chernuhinskie guys took down the plane. From Chernuhino block-post. The cossaks that are stationed on Chernuhino"
Major: "So plane fell apart in air, near Pertopoltavskaya mine. First "200" found. A civil person"
Hrek: "What's going on there?"
Major: "Well, fuck, it was 100% a civil aircraft"
Hrek: "How many people?"
Major: "Holy fuck! PArts of the plane fell in yards (meaning house yeards ) "
Hrek" What kind of aircraft?
Major: "I still have no clue because i wasn't near it's main part. I'm currrently looking at the place where first bodies fell"
Major: "there are leftovers of internal brakets, seats, bodies
Hrek: "Ane weapons?"
Major: "Nothing at all. Civil things, medical things, towels, toilet paper"
Hrek" Any documents?"
Major: "Yes, Indonesian student. From Tompson University"

there is no reason to connect these two different recordings except someone directed you too ,and you followed directions very well.