Opinion: The twisted irony in Alabama’s court decision on embryos

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/21/opinions/alabama-supreme-court-fetal-embryo-personhood-abortion-ziegler/index.html

This section of the opinion article gets interesting:

The Alabama case began when three couples visited a fertility clinic in Mobile to pursue IVF: a treatment in which multiple eggs are harvested, fertilized and implanted to create a pregnancy. ...

...

The three Alabama couples elected to store their excess embryos at the Mobile clinic from 2013 to 2016. In December 2020, however, a patient from an attached hospital entered the clinic, handled some of the embryos and injured their hand, given the subzero temperatures at which the embryos are stored. As a result, they dropped the embryos and accidentally destroyed them.

The plaintiffs sued, first alleging that the clinic was negligent in how it monitored the embryos, contending that the clinic breached the contract it signed with the couples. The couples also had a much more controversial claim: that their embryos counted as “children” or “persons” under the state’s wrongful death of a minor law.

The Alabama Supreme Court agreed that the embryos were persons. The court pointed to a 2018 ballot measure ...

In a concurring opinion, Chief Justice Tom Parker suggested that divine law — which, he claimed, had been embraced by the people of Alabama — supported the court’s conclusion. “Human life,” he stressed, “cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring the wrath of a holy God.”

I took a look at the passed Constitutional amendment and it does not mention a fetus versus embryo versus zygote, but talks about unborn life and seems to redefine the word "child":

Sec. 36.06​

Sanctity of unborn life.​

(a) This state acknowledges, declares, and affirms that it is the public policy of this state to recognize and support the sanctity of unborn life and the rights of unborn children, including the right to life.

(b) This state further acknowledges, declares, and affirms that it is the public policy of this state to ensure the protection of the rights of the unborn child in all manners and measures lawful and appropriate.

(c) Nothing in this constitution secures or protects a right to abortion or requires the funding of an abortion.

I think the author's point is that a decision like this with respect to embryos has unintended consequences to IVF. A significant number of births involve IVF and the disposition of embryos is often complex and not at all like we normally treat humans, like freezing, and specific embryos may be chosen for implantation based on viability while others may be disposed of (for research or frozen or whatever--unknown). For example, my wife and I tried IVF and I think I recall one time there were 5 fertilized eggs with varying viability. The doctor told us about the viability and maybe we chose some limited number for implantation like, say 3 out of the 5. I don't recall exact numbers but the remaining 2, disposing of them, even if not that viable would be considered murder under the consequences of this law. Now I just did some reading and it appears the recommended implantation is 1. So maybe my memory is faulty and the actual number of implanted eggs was 1 and the rest were saved for later or disposed of. In total, we tried IVF twice, though. It was unsuccessful both times. I had wanted to try it again, but it was VERY mentally taxing on my wife. She could not handle it more than twice.

How this impacts IVF is up for grabs, but certainly in Alabama it is going to put fear into the whole medical practice and increase financial risk. Imagine the following: could it also mean that these doctors would only ever try to fertilize 1 egg at a time. Then, they would only ever implant 1 egg, regardless of viability, serious medical issues with the egg etc. If there are ever extra that need a different disposition, that's murder. Also, the woman would have no right to change her mind or it would be considered murder to the egg?

Such questions and arguments may be of interest to right-to-life people who would want births to be increasing and couples with difficulties to have children. Still, I find the whole thing frightening for another reason--that Alabama seems to be moving toward theocracy using constitutional amendments to force religious conclusions and propagate religion.

 

[Elixir]

Superstition and stupidity have taken over this country.
Maybe it was ever thus, and I have lived a very sheltered life. Either way, we will deserve what’s coming.

 

[bilby]

Now I just did some reading and it appears the recommended implantation is 1. So maybe my memory is faulty and the actual number of implanted eggs was 1

That recommendation is fairly recent, and reflects the fact that implanting more than one is now likely to result in twins or triplets. Not so long ago, implanting three gave a good chance of getting one child, and a small chance of twins, but these days triplets are a common consequence, and generally not a desirable one (if only due to the increased risk to the mother of carrying triplets).

My sister's twins are the result of IVF, back in the days when implanting three was the norm.

 

[bilby]

Superstition and stupidity have taken over this country.
Maybe it was ever thus, ...

It certainly seems to have been in Alabama. "Stupidity and superstition" should be the state motto.

They would have had "stultitia et superstitio", but they didn't want anything that came from Latin America.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I think the author's point is that a decision like this with respect to embryos has unintended consequences to IVF.

that’s quite a charitable use of the word “unintended”.

 

[TomC]

While there was lots I disliked about RvW, one really really good thing was that it was federal. The state level buffoons couldn't indulge so much in the "more stupid than thou" competition we are currently seeing all over the place.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Human life cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring the wrath of a holy God.

So the owners of the embryos can sue in civil court because God, but this isn't manslaughter?

 

[TomC]

What I don't understand is if they are people, why isn't this manslaughter?

If I understand the quote,
"embryos counted as “children” or “persons” under the state’s wrongful death of a minor law."
looks like manslaughter to me.
Tom

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

I think the author's point is that a decision like this with respect to embryos has unintended consequences to IVF.

that’s quite a charitable use of the word “unintended”.

Exactly. They want everything to be done naturally, by fucking your cousin. No birth control either.

BTW, everyone in Alabama with frozen embryos needs to include them as dependents on their tax return.

 

[TomC]

Also,
If it's God's Will, "no babies for you", why is IVF even legal in Alabama?
Tom

 

[Rhea]

BTW, everyone in Alabama with frozen embryos needs to include them as dependents on their tax return.

OMG, yes.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Also,
If it's God's Will, "no babies for you", why is IVF even legal in Alabama?
Tom

Because this decision just came down. We will see if it is legal much longer. Or at least impractical. If the IVF clinics fear lawsuits enough they just might close down.

 

[starwater]

Also,
If it's God's Will, "no babies for you", why is IVF even legal in Alabama?
Tom

Because this decision just came down. We will see if it is legal much longer. Or at least impractical. If the IVF clinics fear lawsuits enough they just might close down.

Declare bankruptcy, move out of state and toss the embryos in the trash...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Also,
If it's God's Will, "no babies for you", why is IVF even legal in Alabama?
Tom

Because this decision just came down. We will see if it is legal much longer. Or at least impractical. If the IVF clinics fear lawsuits enough they just might close down.

Declare bankruptcy, move out of state and toss the embryos in the trash...

So... if they took the embryos out of state, is that human trafficking?

 

[EricH]

Also,
If it's God's Will, "no babies for you", why is IVF even legal in Alabama?
Tom

Because this decision just came down. We will see if it is legal much longer. Or at least impractical. If the IVF clinics fear lawsuits enough they just might close down.

Declare bankruptcy, move out of state and toss the embryos in the trash...

So... if they took the embryos out of state, is that human trafficking?

Yes. But it then becomes a federal matter. SC of AL has no jurisdiction.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And one place in Alabama pauses the IVF treatment.

Its announcement could be the start of what reproductive rights advocates and medical experts have been warning about for days: that the high court’s decision could have devastating consequences for Alabamians seeking infertility treatments each year to build their families – and it could soon have profound impacts far beyond the state’s borders.

The issue remains with what is left. If a person has a number of embryos, the IVF facility must hold onto the embryos forever, else be allegedly guilty of murder. This will help make it impossible for people who find pregnancy impossible with IVF to ever have a child.

 

[TomC]

Also,
If it's God's Will, "no babies for you", why is IVF even legal in Alabama?
Tom

Because this decision just came down. We will see if it is legal much longer. Or at least impractical. If the IVF clinics fear lawsuits enough they just might close down.

Declare bankruptcy, move out of state and toss the embryos in the trash...

So... if they took the embryos out of state, is that human trafficking?

What if they just stopped supplying electricity to the freezers and let the "parents" know?
"You've got about 3 hours to pick up your kids or they'll thaw."
Tom

 

[Elixir]

"You've got about 3 hours to pick up your kids or they'll thaw."
Tom

“How am I supposed to pay the clinic’s electricity bill when I’m in fucking JAIL?”

 

[ZiprHead]

I think the author's point is that a decision like this with respect to embryos has unintended consequences to IVF.

that’s quite a charitable use of the word “unintended”.

Exactly. They want everything to be done naturally, by fucking your cousin. No birth control either.

BTW, everyone in Alabama with frozen embryos needs to include them as dependents on their tax return.

Ninja'd.

 

[Copernicus]

And then there's this from the Republican who thought that the Civil war wasn't about slavery:

Haley backs Alabama Supreme Court IVF ruling: "Embryos, to me, are babies"​

She is considered the sane alternative to Trump. A moderate who thinks embryos are babies. And the slavery issue wasn't the main reason for the Civil War.