Parents Of School Shooter Charged

[ZiprHead]

MSN

• The parents of the Oxford school shooter failed to report their child's disturbing behavior, prosecutors argued.
• They said 15-year-old made Molotov cocktails at home and joked about carrying out an attack.
• He also told his mom he saw "demons" and "ghosts" and recorded himself torturing animals, they said.

 

[blastula]

Jennifer Crumbley has been convicted. Her husband's trial is set to start next month.

Jennifer Crumbley, mother of Ethan Crumbley, found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in son’s school shooting

The Michigan mother was charged in connection with her son's deadly rampage at Oxford High School in 2021.

www.nbcnews.com

Jennifer Crumbley, the Michigan woman charged in connection with her son’s deadly school shooting rampage in 2021, was convicted Tuesday of involuntary manslaughter in the unprecedented case.

The unanimous verdict came on the second day of jury deliberations in a landmark trial that turned on an unusual question: Can the parent of a child who commits a mass shooting also be held criminally responsible?

Crumbley, 45, was charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter — one for each of the victims in the attack at Oxford High School in November 2021. Her son, Ethan, now 17, pleaded guilty as an adult to murder, terrorism and other crimes, and was sentenced in December to life in prison without parole.

Now, she faces up to 15 years in prison per count and remains held on bond. She will be sentenced on April 9.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I can't imagine this will not go to SCOTUS. Then Thomas can dissent that murder isn't a crime as long as you use a gun.

These parents took negligence to Guinness Book of World Records level high. They need to be held accountable in some fashion.

 

[TomC]

I can't imagine this will not go to SCOTUS. Then Thomas can dissent that murder isn't a crime as long as you use a gun.

These parents took negligence to Guinness Book of World Records level high. They need to be held accountable in some fashion.

Still, 15 years looks wildly excessive to me.
A year, 10 more on probation, with no contact with anyone under 18 ever, I'd go for that.

Honestly, it kinda seems so excessive it invites appeals and possibly overturning.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

I can't imagine this will not go to SCOTUS. Then Thomas can dissent that murder isn't a crime as long as you use a gun.

These parents took negligence to Guinness Book of World Records level high. They need to be held accountable in some fashion.

Still, 15 years looks wildly excessive to me.
A year, 10 more on probation, with no contact with anyone under 18 ever, I'd go for that.

Honestly, it kinda seems so excessive it invites appeals and possibly overturning.
Tom

If the sentencing is within the legislated guidelines there's nothing to appeal.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Honestly, it kinda seems so excessive

if the kid had ran away from home, stolen a gun somewhere then committed the crimes I might agree with you. As it is the parents acted as enablers, something more than negligence.

 

[TomC]

Honestly, it kinda seems so excessive

if the kid had ran away from home, stolen a gun somewhere then committed the crimes I might agree with you. As it is the parents acted as enablers, something more than negligence.

I agree with all that. It's not like I suggested a shrug concerning their culpability. Still, 15 years looks excessive to me.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Honestly, it kinda seems so excessive

if the kid had ran away from home, stolen a gun somewhere then committed the crimes I might agree with you. As it is the parents acted as enablers, something more than negligence.

I agree with all that. It's not like I suggested a shrug concerning their culpability. Still, 15 years looks excessive to me.
Tom

Personally I hate prison time as a means to serving justice. It would seem unlikely that these two people will commit the same crime again. Their presence in prison won't make us any safer.

On the other hand, four teens were murdered by the teen they gave a weapon to after being told he appeared to be exhibiting violent tendencies as well as them apparently witnessing this as well. Is 15 years excessive? Let's ask these four people.

I'll wait until they raise an objection before considering it excessive.

 

[TomC]

When it comes to this sort of thing I'm not big on vengeance or emotional appeals to determine justice.
Tom

 

[Toni]

The boy who killed 4 was 15 at the time of his crime and in what seems now an obvious serious mental health crises --although perhaps it was going on for long enough that it could not be called a crises so much as it was an unacknowledged serious mental illness that caused breaks with reality. This kid obviously committed horrendous acts and could have easily killed many more than he did. Thank heavens it was not more.

That said, and fully acknowledging the horrendous nature of his crimes and the incalculable value of the lives he took---and the trauma inflicted on those present and on all of those who loved or cared about the victims--he was 15 and mentally unstable. I cannot support a life sentence for a 15 year old, and especially one in such dire need of treatment which he will not get in prison. I strongly suspect he will die very, very early.

I live in hunting country where it is common to give boys that age and younger hunting rifles--girls, too. My sister was younger than that when my dad got her her first weapon. But this is different than what this boy got with the help of his parents. They bear some responsibility.

I cannot help but feel some compassion for them for not knowing or understanding the extent of their son's troubled mind before these horrendous acts. Mostly because I hid my own emotional distress from my family. For a time, I was suicidal to the extent that I had everything all planned out, with a couple of back ups and fail safes. But as they say, fate intervened and my family never knew and still does not know the extent of my depression, just as they do not know about the sexual assaults I endured by someone who was like a brother to me. I'm not writing this for sympathy at all but just acknowledging that it is not impossible for decent parents to be unaware of the troubles their kid is experiencing, even if they are decent, involved, etc. It's not like chickenpox or measles: there is no rash.

 

[blastula]

Still, 15 years looks wildly excessive to me.
A year, 10 more on probation, with no contact with anyone under 18 ever, I'd go for that.

Honestly, it kinda seems so excessive it invites appeals and possibly overturning.

She hasn't even been sentenced yet. Or are you just objecting to their statutory maximum penalty? And she's not just facing 15 years, it's 60 years.

 

[TomC]

Still, 15 years looks wildly excessive to me.
A year, 10 more on probation, with no contact with anyone under 18 ever, I'd go for that.

Honestly, it kinda seems so excessive it invites appeals and possibly overturning.

She hasn't even been sentenced yet. Or are you just objecting to their statutory maximum penalty? And she's not just facing 15 years, it's 60 years.

Sorry.
I took

Now, she faces up to 15 years in prison per count and remains held on bond. She will be sentenced on April 9.

Seriously.
Oops for me.
Tom

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I live in hunting country where it is common to give boys that age and younger hunting rifles--girls, too. My sister was younger than that when my dad got her her first weapon. But this is different than what this boy got with the help of his parents. They bear some responsibility.

I see a difference between a hunting rifle and a handgun. I've never known a parent to buy a handgun for a young teenager. Maybe it happens in psycho gun worship world but that was a first for me. Hunting weapons? Plenty of those in my life, but no handguns.

 

[Rhea]

Still, 15 years looks wildly excessive to me.
A year, 10 more on probation, with no contact with anyone under 18 ever, I'd go for that.

Honestly, it kinda seems so excessive it invites appeals and possibly overturning.

She hasn't even been sentenced yet. Or are you just objecting to their statutory maximum penalty? And she's not just facing 15 years, it's 60 years.

Sorry.
I took

Now, she faces up to 15 years in prison per count and remains held on bond. She will be sentenced on April 9.

Seriously.
Oops for me.
Tom

That’s the math for 60 years.

 

[Toni]

I live in hunting country where it is common to give boys that age and younger hunting rifles--girls, too. My sister was younger than that when my dad got her her first weapon. But this is different than what this boy got with the help of his parents. They bear some responsibility.

I see a difference between a hunting rifle and a handgun. I've never known a parent to buy a handgun for a young teenager. Maybe it happens in psycho gun worship world but that was a first for me. Hunting weapons? Plenty of those in my life, but no handguns.

Yes. In my community there was a huge controversy between the PTA which wanted no guns in schools, no exceptions and the fact that the high school was where the community held gun safety classes.

I once attended an event in the main concourse and saw the group of young boys walking along the open hallway above our heads, each carrying a rifle. Even knowing why, it was impossible not to feel a chill…,

 

[TomC]

That's the math for 60 years.

I'm confused.
Are you saying she deserves more than 15 years?
I can't tell what the point to your post was.
Tom

 

[Elixir]

I once attended an event in the main concourse and saw the group of young boys walking along the open hallway above our heads, each carrying a rifle. Even knowing why, it was impossible not to feel a chill…,

People with guns give me the creeps in general. Oddly, my neighbor's kids were an exception. They're grown now but they were hunters from 7-8 yrs old, and were better schooled in both long guns and handguns and more careful than just about any adults I know - including some cops. But they had good parents who rode herd on them real close, and they fairly exuded caution, so I was never at all nervous about them.

 

[JohnG]

I don't know about the school district in question, but as I hear from my wife (a high school director who allocates resources to kids in need) there are dozens of horror stories about kids home lives in every school.

This is why I get so bent out of shape with the anti-public school movement, especially the "parental rights" crowd. School is the only safe place for a lot of kids.

 

[Toni]

I once attended an event in the main concourse and saw the group of young boys walking along the open hallway above our heads, each carrying a rifle. Even knowing why, it was impossible not to feel a chill…,

People with guns give me the creeps in general. Oddly, my neighbor's kids were an exception. They're grown now but they were hunters from 7-8 yrs old, and were better schooled in both long guns and handguns and more careful than just about any adults I know - including some cops. But they had good parents who rode herd on them real close, and they fairly exuded caution, so I was never at all nervous about them.

Yes, I know those kind of parents and their kids. That was who I grew up with, although I made a very deliberate and conscious choice to not learn to hunt.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Personally I hate prison time as a means to serving justice. It would seem unlikely that these two people will commit the same crime again. Their presence in prison won't make us any safer.

On the other hand, four teens were murdered by the teen they gave a weapon to after being told he appeared to be exhibiting violent tendencies as well as them apparently witnessing this as well. Is 15 years excessive? Let's ask these four people.

Prison serves two purposes. It not only deters future improper behavior by the guilty but it acts as a deterrent for others who might do the same thing.

In this case I definitely agree that the parents aren't going to do it again, but this sentence tells others to be careful arming people with mental problems.