Paris: Dozens Killed In Terrorist Attack

[thebeave]

If the Muslims wrote their tweets in bold or capital letters it would at least amplify the level of their outrage. Something to remember for the next slaughter of innocent lives.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well that's ... tepid and uninspiring.

I guess that means there are Muslims who are against this. When some people drew a picture of Mohammed, I didn't need to guess in order to figure out their position. They were very loud and passionate about letting everyone know that position.

When Bush went and started a war and murdered a bunch of innocents in the name of America, there were thousands out in the streets marching and protesting to let the world know how disgusted they, as Americans, were about what was being done in their name. If the anti-Iraq War campaign had consisted of snitty tweets, I would have assumed that there wasn't any real objection to the war.

While sending a tweet may not be the absolute least that one can do when someone commits mass murder in your name, it is pretty close. At least they took five minutes to make a little sign and they got up from the couch for long enough to take a quick selfie - so that's something ... I guess.

There's a huge difference. The invasion of Iraq was decided by the democratically elected representatives of the American people. So the assumption that the invasion is happening in the name of American voters and with their consent is a priori reasonable. The assumption that the Paris attacks are happening in the name of any odd Muslim off the street is a priori unreasonable, and thus he has no more reason to clarify that they're not happening in his name than you or I.

But we're discussing the one's who are clarifying that it's not happening in their name, not the ones who don't feel that they need to make that clarification. This is a group who feels strongly enough about how ISIS is misrepresenting their faith that they actually take some action over the matter. It's just that the action that they're taking is really fucking lame.

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If the Muslims wrote their tweets in bold or capital letters it would at least amplify the level of their outrage. Something to remember for the next slaughter of innocent lives.

Or at least threaten to go over to ISIS members' houses and butt rape them or something.

 

[maxparrish]

But we're discussing the one's who are clarifying that it's not happening in their name, not the ones who don't feel that they need to make that clarification. This is a group who feels strongly enough about how ISIS is misrepresenting their faith that they actually take some action over the matter. It's just that the action that they're taking is really fucking lame...

I woke up to the image of headlines of millions of Muslims demonstrating in the streets against terrorism in support of France...no wait, I got that slightly wrong...After I saw the image of those headlines, I woke up.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There's a huge difference. The invasion of Iraq was decided by the democratically elected representatives of the American people. So the assumption that the invasion is happening in the name of American voters and with their consent is a priori reasonable. The assumption that the Paris attacks are happening in the name of any odd Muslim off the street is a priori unreasonable, and thus he has no more reason to clarify that they're not happening in his name than you or I.

But we're discussing the one's who are clarifying that it's not happening in their name, not the ones who don't feel that they need to make that clarification. This is a group who feels strongly enough about how ISIS is misrepresenting their faith that they actually take some action over the matter. It's just that the action that they're taking is really fucking lame.

I don't recall a single parade by people in the NRA to speak out against the recent slaughters.

 

[ronburgundy]

But we're discussing the one's who are clarifying that it's not happening in their name, not the ones who don't feel that they need to make that clarification. This is a group who feels strongly enough about how ISIS is misrepresenting their faith that they actually take some action over the matter. It's just that the action that they're taking is really fucking lame.

I don't recall a single parade by people in the NRA to speak out against the recent slaughters.

To the contrary. The NRA and Trump are deflecting blame away from the murderers who did this and onto gun-control supporters, claiming that if all those concert goers were allowed to carry, this wouldn't have happened.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

But we're discussing the one's who are clarifying that it's not happening in their name, not the ones who don't feel that they need to make that clarification. This is a group who feels strongly enough about how ISIS is misrepresenting their faith that they actually take some action over the matter. It's just that the action that they're taking is really fucking lame.

I don't recall a single parade by people in the NRA to speak out against the recent slaughters.

So, your rebuttal is to say that the people who don't really care and don't want anything to change aren't really doing anything?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't recall a single parade by people in the NRA to speak out against the recent slaughters.

So, your rebuttal is to say that the people who don't really care and don't want anything to change aren't really doing anything?

More to the point that it seems quite crass to presume people aren't against it merely because they haven't seen massive marches on Fox News and what not.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

So, your rebuttal is to say that the people who don't really care and don't want anything to change aren't really doing anything?

More to the point that it seems quite crass to presume people aren't against it merely because they haven't seen massive marches on Fox News and what not.

I'm not the one who brought the tweets into the thread. That was done to demonstrate the existence of the opposition amongst the Muslim community to these attacks. My rebuttal to that was that it doesn't demonstrate opposition, it demonstrates not giving enough of a shit to bother demonstrating opposition.

 

[TSwizzle]

On the same night that muslims were running amok in Paris, slaughtering infidels, a cozy little get together of muslims mapping out how best to get the caliphate started was held in Bedford, UK.

Speakers at the Quiz A Muslim event in Bedford included Taji Mustafah, of radical Islamic organisation Hizb-ut Tahrir, and Moazzem Begg, a former Guantanamo Bay inmate and founder of campaign group Cage, whose director called Jihadi John a ‘beautiful young man’.
The panellists said that there is an ‘Islamic’ duty to ‘struggle’ for an ‘Islamic state’, as 132 were executed in shootings and suicide bombings.

Daily Mail

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

More to the point that it seems quite crass to presume people aren't against it merely because they haven't seen massive marches on Fox News and what not.

I'm not the one who brought the tweets into the thread. That was done to demonstrate the existence of the opposition amongst the Muslim community to these attacks. My rebuttal to that was that it doesn't demonstrate opposition, it demonstrates not giving enough of a shit to bother demonstrating opposition.

And as soon as you show that Muslims aren't actively demonstrating...

 

[maxparrish]

But we're discussing the one's who are clarifying that it's not happening in their name, not the ones who don't feel that they need to make that clarification. This is a group who feels strongly enough about how ISIS is misrepresenting their faith that they actually take some action over the matter. It's just that the action that they're taking is really fucking lame.

I don't recall a single parade by people in the NRA to speak out against the recent slaughters.

If the the recent slaughters were by members of the NRA, on behalf of NRA and their beliefs, perhaps they would.

 

[Jokodo]

I don't recall a single parade by people in the NRA to speak out against the recent slaughters.

So, your rebuttal is to say that the people who don't really care and don't want anything to change aren't really doing anything?

There's nothing to rebutt. You're expecting people who have no relation to the terrorists to make a show of that obvious fact and upholding it with an irrelevant comparison. American citizens are (at least in aggregate) inherently complicit in the action of the government they elected in the same way a board member of a company is complicit in the actions of their employees (at least if those follow company guidelines).

Demanding that Muslims everywhere spontanuously take to the streets whenever there's a terrorist attack anywhere in the world where the perpetrators claim to be acting in the name of Islam is absurd. It's every bit as absurd as demanding that you take to the streets every single time an atrocity is committed against gays in the name of "protecting families" - because as a family person yourself, you're inherently complicit and if your action is too lame, it only shows that you "don't want anything to change".

 

[Jayjay]

Who are non-muslims to judge what's Islam or not anyway? Big show of "this isn't Islam" or "I don't agree with this" is meaningless to me because I don't have any particular investment in any interpretation of that hokey religion. Instead of tweeting, I'd rather have the muslims either finding and dispensing with their brethen who don't agree, or leaving Islam altogether.

 

[barbos]

So, your rebuttal is to say that the people who don't really care and don't want anything to change aren't really doing anything?

There's nothing to rebutt. You're expecting people who have no relation to the terrorists to make a show of that obvious fact and upholding it with an irrelevant comparison.

If only they did not protest these cartoons, then it would have been consistent, I mean how in the world french cartoonists in France have relation to them?

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Who are non-muslims to judge what's Islam or not anyway?

Are you suggesting that only Muslims are morally permitted to say what Islam is?
But then, who judges who is a Muslim?

 

[bilby]

On the same night that muslims were running amok in Paris, slaughtering infidels, a cozy little get together of muslims mapping out how best to get the caliphate started was held in Bedford, UK.

<Snipped Daily Fail drivel>

Daily Mail

Daily Mail



Quoting the Daily Mail gives an argument similar weight to quoting Mein Kampf.

 

[maxparrish]

I don't recall a single parade by people in the NRA to speak out against the recent slaughters.

To the contrary. The NRA and Trump are deflecting blame away from the murderers who did this and onto gun-control supporters, claiming that if all those concert goers were allowed to carry, this wouldn't have happened.

Two Pinocchios. Rates as half-truth. Actually, one specific group won the sprint to capitalize on the tragedy - Bloomberg's anti-gun group "Moms Demand Action". The bodies had yet to cool when they tweeted out their deflection, united against "all the lost lives due to gun violence".

https://twitter.com/MomsDemand/status/665294443638075392

(The same group is remembered to have focused Tamerlan Tsarnaev as a “victim of gun violence” in aftermath of the Boston Marathon bombing.)

That France has very restrictive gun control laws, and that the AK-47s found were illegal, seems to have escaped their hyper-focused attention.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

I'm not the one who brought the tweets into the thread. That was done to demonstrate the existence of the opposition amongst the Muslim community to these attacks. My rebuttal to that was that it doesn't demonstrate opposition, it demonstrates not giving enough of a shit to bother demonstrating opposition.

And as soon as you show that Muslims aren't actively demonstrating...

Support for radicals may be demonstrated by omission and silence. In the southern U.S., back in the 1950s, several juries, in act of jury nullification, let murderers walk free who had lynched several black people. Those jurors didn't hang any black people. They didn't give a physical hand, nor did they contribute a dime to the defense team(s). Yet it would be foolish to say they didn't support what the murderers did--and it would be foolish to say that those jurors were not a reflection of their community. And in this country, we're still paying for things like that.

If the KKK were able to to do what it used to, there would be a network of support behind it both active and passive. The active would consist of logistical and weapons and other support. The passive support would consist of those who know what's going on but don't say anything, voting for KKK members into public office, and even the simple circumstance of holding the same beliefs that the active members do, but without doing anything else. It's not one thing that lends support, it's an entire mosaic of both tangible and intangible things that must exist in order for this to go on.

What's the answer? Fuck if I know. The only viable one I can think of is to go on a Manhattan Project style of program to develop alternative energy sources in order to get off oil to the point where the ME becomes strategically insignificant. Dubbya had the opportunity for that, but we all know how that turned out. And it's unlikely it's going to happen now.

At any rate, a worldwide phenomenon doesn't exist due to a statistically insignificant minority.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The discussion is becoming irrelevant to the topic of what happened in Paris. It doesn't matter what muslims think of their religion anymore than it mattered what Hebrews thought of their religion or christens theirs or classical religious believers thought of theirs. Europe warred on itself for century upon century upon century when it was Christian all the time. The question is why. And it wasn't because of religion. And it isn't today.

 

[whichphilosophy]

On the same night that muslims were running amok in Paris, slaughtering infidels, a cozy little get together of muslims mapping out how best to get the caliphate started was held in Bedford, UK.

Speakers at the Quiz A Muslim event in Bedford included Taji Mustafah, of radical Islamic organisation Hizb-ut Tahrir, and Moazzem Begg, a former Guantanamo Bay inmate and founder of campaign group Cage, whose director called Jihadi John a ‘beautiful young man’.
The panellists said that there is an ‘Islamic’ duty to ‘struggle’ for an ‘Islamic state’, as 132 were executed in shootings and suicide bombings.

Daily Mail

The article in the usual Daily Mail drivel is hardly a smoking gun.