ideologyhunter
Contributor
Good clips for MSNBC, and of course he will force Mikey Pence to reconsider his Christian dogma.
I don’t see military experience as a must.
I agree.. but I do see a long, consistent history of public service as a Must.
This article was an eye-opener for me. From the conclusion
VICE: I listened to you talk today. On the one hand, you definitely speak very progressively. But you don’t have a lot of super-specific policy ideas.
BUTTIGIEG: Part of where the left and the center-left have gone wrong is that we’ve been so policy-led that we haven’t been as philosophical. We like to think of ourselves as the intellectual ones. But the truth is that the right has done a better job, in my lifetime, of connecting up its philosophy and its values to its politics. Right now I think we need to articulate the values, lay out our philosophical commitments and then develop policies off of that. And I’m working very hard not to put the cart before the horse.
VICE: Is there time for that? They want the list. They want to know exactly what you’re going to do.
BUTTIGIEG: I think it can actually be a little bit dishonest to think you have it all figured out on day 1. I think anybody in this race is going to be a lot more specific or policy-oriented than the current president. But I don’t think we ought to have that all locked in on day 1.
If Pete was on the presidential debate stage against Donald, and voters were watching them and internally deciding "Which of these two do I trust more and would rather have as president?" the core reaction, for the large majority of the population, would prefer President Pete. No, I do not have exact data for that, but just would note that among the latest Iowa Dem pulling, Buttigieg had a significantly low disapproval rating. So generally people either like him, or they do not know him yet. Give him a larger audience though, and he would have a much stronger appeal than a Trump would. Even now, this early in the process, people are not just liking Pete, they are loving him. He has gotten great feedback and ratings and has raised a lot of money. People would not just vote for him, they would be more active in supporting him and campaigning for him. Contrast that love that people have for Pete against Donald's large disapproval rating, and I think Pete would do very well in a general election against Donald. The religious right, where same-sex-marriage is an issue, is dying in numbers (and liberal secularists are accelerating our rise in comparison), to the point where him being gay would be a relatively insignificant issue. The Dem party would overwhelmingly support Pete in the general election, independents would find him more appealing by large margins, and the religious conservative base would have shrunk in size. All good indicators for Pete. I do think my OP was wrong, and the religious right would have less impact on the election than I was thinking at the time it was written.
Turning out the vote is really important, so you want a candidate that most Democrats and moderates will find attractive. Most people right now don't even know who Buttigieg is, and it is debatable whether they will be attracted to him enough to get out in the large numbers needed to win in purple states.
Once Buttigieg's halo starts to acquire a little tarnish, people are going to be taking second and third looks at his qualifications for office. I know that Donald Trump has created an extremely low bar for any candidate to rise above, but bread and butter issues matter more to the broader (more moderate) Democratic base than the social issues that shine brightly for the young liberal/progressive wing of the party. And Democrats are notorious for not showing up at the polls when their candidate offers more style than substance.
Mayor of South Bend to President seems a huge step. The trouble America seems to be getting back into is an impotent President, where Congress exerts more power (to not accomplish anything). What is Mayor Buttigieg's ability to get legislation passed?
Good clips for MSNBC, and of course he will force Mikey Pence to reconsider his Christian dogma.
Pence likely would not personally reconsider his Christian dogma or what it means theologically. He will virtually always see himself as the victim no matter what, it is what religions like his do. Politically speaking though, he may have to reconsider his Christian dogma in that he cannot simply point to himself as being the True Christian in the race, and those Democrats as being evil secularists. If Pete was also speaking in Christian language a lot and used Christian beliefs as grounds for his views on gay marriage, Christian voters would have to make a choice whose version of Christianity they prefer to go with. If Pete's version of gay-friendlier version of Christianity was more popular (and since our society has become increasingly settled with the idea of gay marriage being the law of the land), then Pence may have to reconsider his particular version of Christianity.
Turning out the vote is really important, so you want a candidate that most Democrats and moderates will find attractive. Most people right now don't even know who Buttigieg is, and it isdebatabledoubtful whether they will be attracted to him enough to get out in the large numbers needed to win in purple states.
Well the phrase "it is debatable" is a buffered-enough phrase that it is tough to argue against, but is also very trivially true and meaningless to point out. Everything here meets the low bar of just being "debatable." Nothing is absolutely certain. We can still have good reasons to believe he like would have good turnout among Dems. Again, very overwhelmingly the Dems that are familiar with him either like him or love him. We can see indicators for that already based on his very positive feedback, ratings, surges in polling, and fundraising.
Once Buttigieg's halo starts to acquire a little tarnish, people are going to be taking second and third looks at his qualifications for office. I know that Donald Trump has created an extremely low bar for any candidate to rise above, but bread and butter issues matter more to the broader (more moderate) Democratic base than the social issues that shine brightly for the young liberal/progressive wing of the party. And Democrats are notorious for not showing up at the polls when their candidate offers more style than substance.
The most recent presidential election was decided by a relatively very slim difference in total votes in just a handful of states, and it would not require even a massive increase in turnout among purple-state Dems to decide the 2020 election differently than the 2016 had been decided. A small change would make all the difference. We can see already indicators that Pete has strong potential for such turnout and enthusiasm changes.
I think that Buttigieg would tend to increase voting enthusiasm among conservative voters, especially conservative evangelicals,...
...and decrease it among the more moderate portions of the Democratic base.
However, I think that he would become something of a liability for Democrats in the general election.
I think the conservative evangelicals are extremely loyal to anything Trump.
Sorry, I do not understand why you would think that.
You can’t see why picking this point in political history to try to run the first openly gay Presidential candidate could be a problem in regard to moderate/centrist Dems and/or swing voters (on either side of the aisle)?
You can’t see why picking this point in political history to try to run the first openly gay Presidential candidate could be a problem in regard to moderate/centrist Dems and/or swing voters (on either side of the aisle)?
Not as much as you seem to think.
Gay marriage is the settled law, moderate Dems are not fighting to have it repealed.
Democratic subgroups tend to exhibit even less variation in their opinions of Trump than Republican subgroups do, with nearly every Democratic subgroup registering approval in the single digits. Ideology is a factor in the sole Democratic exception, with 11% of conservative Democrats approving of Trump.
In instances in which demographics are related to opinions of Trump, they are most apparent among independents. For example, the gender gap among independents is 14 percentage points (40% of men and 26% of women approve of Trump). The gender gap is only six points among Democrats, while there is no gender gap among Republicans. There are substantial differences in Trump approval ratings among independents of different ideologies -- conservative independents (57%) are more than twice as likely as moderate (28%) and liberal (15%) independents to approve of the job Trump is doing. Race has a similarly strong relationship to Trump job approval among independents, as 44% of whites but only 18% of nonwhites think he is doing a good job.
As the numbers have already shown, Dems (not just liberal Dems, but includes moderate Dems too) either like Pete or love Pete, once they get to know him.
Even if you personally are not thrilled by him, you could still see that others are.
To give a bit of color to the “from elite school boyhood to elite school undergraduate years” story, Buttigieg portrays himself as an Indiana hayseed for whom the bustling metropolis of Cambridge, MA was an alien world. So, even though he grew up on the campus of a top private university 90 minutes from Chicago, the Boston subway amazed him. “My face would[…] have stood out amid the grumpy Bostonians, betraying the fact that I was as exhilarated by the idea of being in a ‘big’ city as I was by the new marvels of college life.” He claims to have always found something “distant and even intimidating about the imagery” of being a student. His dorm was a “wonder” because it had exposed brick, “a style I’d only ever seen in fashionable restaurants and occasionally on television.” In a ludicrous passage, he suggests that he found the idea of a clock on a bank a wondrous novelty: “Looking up overhead, I could note the time on a lighted display over the Cambridge Savings Bank building. I felt that telling the time by reading it off a building, instead of a watch, affirmed that I was now in a bustling place of consequence.” Uh, you can tell time off a building on the Notre Dame campus, too, albeit in analog form—clock towers are not a unique innovation of the 21st century megalopolis. (I enjoy reading these “simple country boy unfamiliar with urban ways” sentences in the voice of Stinky Peterson from Hey! Arnold.) Calculated folksiness runs through the whole book. On the cover he is literally in the process of rolling up his sleeves, his collar blue, in front of a Main Street Shopfront. There is a smattering of exaggerated Hoosierism on many a page: “You can read the progress of the campaign calendar by the condition of the corn.”
But okay, that’s not unexpected. He’s a politician, from time to time they all have to stand by a truck on a dirt road and talk about corn. The first time I actually became concerned was when Buttigieg described Harvard Square. He writes that when he emerged off the Big City Subway, his “eyes darted around the lively scene.” He mentions the newsstand where you can “get exotic newspapers like La Repubblica or Le Monde” and the motley mix of characters he saw, like the “teenage punks” and someone passing out flyers for “something edgy like a Lyndon LaRouche for President rally or a Chomsky talk down at MIT.” (Same kind of thing, apparently.) There’s something amiss here though. These are indeed some of the impressions you might get setting foot in the Square. But there’s another fact about the world outside the Harvard gates that is instantly apparent to most newcomers: It has long had a substantial population of homeless people. In fact, it’s a scene as grotesque as it is eclectic: Directly outside the Corinthian columns of the richest university on earth, people wrapped in dirty coats are begging for a buck or two from passing students. Most of the university population has trained themselves to ignore this sub-caste, to the point where they don’t even see them at all, and Buttigieg is no different. The closest he gets is reporting “a mix of postdocs, autodidact geniuses, and drifters” at the Au Bon Pain. He doesn’t mention seeing injustice.
Perhaps just an oversight, though every time I’ve passed through Harvard Square it has been my signature impression. But there was soon something even more disquieting. Talking about politics on campus, Buttigieg says:
In April 2001, a student group called the Progressive Student Labor Movement took over the offices of the university’s president, demanding a living wage for Harvard janitors and food workers. That spring, a daily diversion on the way to class was to see which national figure—Cornel West or Ted Kennedy one day, John Kerry or Robert Reich another—had turned up in the Yard to encourage the protesters.
Striding past the protesters and the politicians addressing them, on my way to a “Pizza and Politics” session with a journalist like Matt Bai or a governor like Howard Dean, I did not guess that the students poised to have the greatest near-term impact were not the social justice warriors at the protests […] but a few mostly apolitical geeks who were quietly at work in Kirkland House [Zuckerberg et al.]
I find this short passage very weird. See the way Buttigieg thinks here. He dismisses student labor activists with the right-wing pejorative “social justice warriors.” But more importantly, to this day it hasn’t even entered his mind that he could have joined the PSLM in the fight for a living wage. Activists are an alien species, one he “strides past” to go to “Pizza & Politics” sessions with governors and New York Times journalists. He didn’t consider, and still hasn’t considered, the moral quandary that should come with being a student at an elite school that doesn’t pay its janitors a living wage.
...
That’s a minor point. A more significant one is the way he talks about war. Buttigieg’s thesis was in part about Vietnam, which he calls a “doomed errand into the jungle.” The liberal vocabulary on wars like Vietnam and Iraq should trouble us. It says things like “doomed” and “mistaken,” (“a lethal blunder” that “collapsed into chaos,” to quote Buttigieg) its judgments pragmatic rather than moral. In doing so, it fails to reckon with the full scale of the atrocities brought about by U.S. government policy.
It also treats America as an innocent blundering giant with “the best of intentions.” Buttigieg quotes Graham Greene: “Innocence is like a dumb leper that has lost his bell, wandering the world, meaning no harm.” This is the Ken Burns line: We mean so well but we make terrible mistakes. It excludes the possibility that American leaders know full well what they are doing but simply do not care about the lives of non-Americans. And, in fact, it implicitly accepts the devaluation of non-American lives. Discussing the dissolution of Iraq into “chaos” (note: a word that obscures culpability), Buttigieg writes of “a reality on the ground that could no longer be denied amid rising American body count.” The Iraqi body count (over 500,000) is unmentioned, just as he leaves out the Vietnamese body count (in the millions). The phrase “reality on the ground” is used without any discussion of what that reality was for those who actually lived on the ground.
Cool your jets...
...Stop with the defensive knee jerk stupidity...
The fact that he is gay will polarize the right
...and drive dormant prejudice on the left where it matters the most; in the swing vote.
Koy, you told me to cool my jets, and also said I have "defensive knee jerk stupidity." Why would you add such inflammatory rhetoric to the discussion yourself, and then tell me I need to cool my jets and stop being so defensive while you take free reign to personally insult me.
The right is about as polarized as they can be.
We should not concern ourselves with trying to trying to appeal to them in any way.
...and drive dormant prejudice on the left where it matters the most; in the swing vote.
Why do you think the fact that he is a gay mayor would be so influential on how those voters vote?
A majority of Americans say they’re just fine with a gay candidate.
A combined 68 percent are either enthusiastic (14 percent) or comfortable (54 percent) with a candidate who is gay or lesbian.
What’s more, that jump isn’t just due to increasing tolerance among the younger voters who Buttigieg, a millennial, can claim to represent.
The share of those under 35 who say they’re enthusiastic or comfortable with a gay candidate increased by 28 percentage points between 2006 and now, jumping from 47 percent to 75 percent now.
And, while seniors are more likely to voice reservations about gay candidates, a majority (56 percent) now say they have no objections. That’s up from just 31 percent in 2006.
My apologies. If you'll note, I actually went back in and edited that out, but in a minute, I think you'll get why shit like this triggers me.
Actually, no, Trump has an 81% approval rating among Republicans and something like only 60% strongly approve. Which means there is a significant swing potential that could easily (and likely would) change if the alternative is a gay liberal.
…being a gay mayor is two strikes against him; one socially and the other in regard to experience.
As I've said many many times, this is a job interview, not Church. And the job is: defeat Republicans at all costs as they are evil personified.