Police Misconduct Catch All Thread

[Shadowy Man]

Just as you don’t want me to associate you with one particular argument (as stated in your previous response) you should not associate Bilby’s comments with “my side”.

Ok.

I think Congress should fix the law so conservative justices can’t pedantically weasel their way to the conclusion they want. Given that the bump stock ban was put into effect by Trump one might think it could be done but things have gotten so toxic and partisan in Congress I’m not sure they could agree on this.

No reason not to try.

Indeed they should.

 

[unapologetic]

You are arguing in circles.

If they are innocent, why not just stop

I was stopped until you started chasing me.

Just because they don't want to be arrested is not an indication of guilt. Arrest itself is not pleasant.
Civilians believe in 'innocent till proven guilty'.
Police believe 'guilty till proven innocent'. So people don't trust police. Don't trust they will be treated fairly. Will avoid interactions with police. Sometimes to the point of running by default.

 

[Gospel]

In fact, millions of citizens argue that because most police interactions go well, specific issues are not significant and don't require attention. Imagine if we applied that logic elsewhere. For instance, if someone had interacted with citizens daily for 50 years without incident, would it be acceptable to overlook the one time they killed someone?

I do not think that anybody is saying that wrongdoing doesn't require attention. But the propaganda over police shootings has led to this belief among some blacks that there is an "open season on blacks" or that they face a significant risk being shot by police simply for being black. Neither is true.
Take Lebron James and other spoiled NBA millionaires as an example.
'We're just scared': LeBron James, NBA players share how past experiences led to fear of police
That's insanity. Especially given that Jacob Blake shooting was completely justified. Blake was armed, refused to drop the knife, was trying to gain control of a vehicle that did not belong to him and which had three children in it, and had a felony warrant. Police also tried to tase him. Now, why would Lebron think that what happened to Jacob Blake somehow applies to black people minding their business?

First, I'd like to point out that LeBron James is just one voice among many, and opinions on this matter vary widely. While LeBron (IMHO) may not be the ideal spokesperson for the day-to-day experiences of Black individuals in heavily policed neighborhoods, his perspective reflects a broader concern shared by many in the Black community.

Statistics indicate that Black individuals are overrepresented in certain crime categories, leading to a skewed perception among law enforcement and the public that any Black person they encounter is more likely to be involved in criminal activity. This expectation can result in biased treatment, even if it is unintentional.

When I interacted with law enforcement (which is now rare since I retired from helping teens in rough neighborhoods), I always cooperated, but it often required me to waive my rights for my own safety. The questions and comments I received from officers included, "Do you have any drugs on you?", "Do you mind if I check your vehicle?", and "The reason we stopped you is because you're in a nice car, and usually those are people passing through here to buy or sell drugs."

Now, if you're simply going about your day, being a helpful citizen, and trying to improve your community, is this something you would have to deal with every single day in a white neighborhood? Despite not committing crimes, not selling drugs, and minding my own business, I was regularly stopped by law enforcement.

This is not to say that it's unreasonable for law enforcement to do their jobs in these challenging neighborhoods. I agree with their efforts for the most part, but it does have an impact on people who are just trying to live normal lives.

Edit: I believe you may understand my argument, Derec. For instance, you've been repeatedly accused of being a Trump supporter by members of this forum, despite having debunked this numerous times. This is largely due to your strong opinions against decisions made by Democratic mayors and district attorneys, which are often valid (IMO). Unfortunately, because others with similar viewpoints were associated with storming the US Capitol, you are presumed to be pro-Trump.

That's just considering recent events. Imagine having years of material and statistics showing that, per capita, people who hold your views are more likely to engage in violent attempts to overthrow the government. You think you have a hard time sharing your opinions through all the noise now? Pffft

 

[Gospel]

For the record, I stopped my volunteering efforts because I was threatened by several young black males who perceived me as interfering in their business. In other words, they felt I wasn't minding my own business when I stepped in to help a distressed female. To be honest, I got tired of dealing with hostilities from both sides.

Edit: It also took a toll on my family, who were constantly worried about me. If law enforcement wouldn't had been as troublesome as the criminals, I could have reassured them, but unfortunately, that wasn't the case.

 

[laughing dog]

You are mistaken. Shooting unarmed civilians is a real issue. It is truly telling that you disagree.

People armed with replica firearms should be considered armed.

They are literally unarmed. But granting that widely accepted view as valid, possession of a replica by itself should not be an accepted excuse for any police officer to open fire.

 

[Shadowy Man]

You are mistaken. Shooting unarmed civilians is a real issue. It is truly telling that you disagree.

People armed with replica firearms should be considered armed.

They are literally unarmed. But granting that widely accepted view as valid, possession of a replica by itself should not be an accepted excuse for any police officer to open fire.

Indeed. They must also be looking at the police aggressively.

 

[bilby]

possession of a replica by itself should not be an accepted excuse for any police officer to open fire.

If the Second Amendment is to be anything other than a sick joke, then the possession of a fully working and loaded firearm by itself should not be an accepted excuse for any police officer to open fire.

 

[laughing dog]

possession of a replica by itself should not be an accepted excuse for any police officer to open fire.

If the Second Amendment is to be anything other than a sick joke, then the possession of a fully working and loaded firearm by itself should not be an accepted excuse for any police officer to open fire.

Absolutely. I’d argue that even in the absence of the 2nd amendment, the possession of any weapon by itself should not be an accepted excuse for a police officer to open fire.

 

[Shadowy Man]

possession of a replica by itself should not be an accepted excuse for any police officer to open fire.

If the Second Amendment is to be anything other than a sick joke, then the possession of a fully working and loaded firearm by itself should not be an accepted excuse for any police officer to open fire.

Absolutely. I’d argue that even in the absence of the 2nd amendment, the possession of any weapon by itself should not be an accepted excuse for a police officer to open fire.

You don't seem to understand that if an officer attempted to take time to contextualize the presence of a weapon in any given scenario they could subject themselves to potential harm.

 

[Gospel]

It's as if they didn't know they'd be subjecting themselves to potential harm when filling out the application.

 

[bilby]

It's as if they didn't know they'd be subjecting themselves to potential harm when filling out the application.

Well, there's a difference between the potential harm from obesity due to excessive donut consumption, and somebody actually shooting at you.

 

[Shadowy Man]

It's as if they didn't know they'd be subjecting themselves to potential harm when filling out the application.

If they wanted that they would have applied to the fire department. Instead they wanted to walk around with a gun feeling superior to other folks.

 

[southernhybrid]

Regardless of what Loren thinks, shouldn't we all be outraged and disgusted that so many police have abused children and women? Shooting innocent people by the police is one terrible problem, but in I think this is even worse, as these police didn't shoot someone out of fear or a misunderstanding, as is sometimes the case, they purposely chose to groom and then sexually assault these girls.

Why the dig at me? I'm agreeing with the problem you point out! What I'm objecting to is the focus on shootings rather than the actual problems such as the ones you describe.

It wan't meant as a dig. Sorry you took it that way. I felt as if the other posters didn't understand exactly what you meant, which is why I said, regardless of what you thought. Sometimes what people write in their posts isn't clearly understood. It appeared that that was the case, and apparently, I didn't make myself clear either. I guess both of us should have been more explicit in our replies.

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread. I was disgusted that so many posters seemed to ignore the huge number of police who have been sexually abusing children and very young women didn't seem important enough to discuss.

 

[southernhybrid]

Here's another example of police misconduct regarding sexually assaulting teens.

https://wapo.st/3Vn3lLg

Hours after The Washington Post published an investigation into a New Orleans police officer who sexually abused a teen he met responding to a rape report, a judge delayed the trial for her civil case against the city.

The victim’s lawyers, in a motion filed Thursday, accused the city of withholding “highly relevant text messages.” The texts show the head of the New Orleans Police Department was notified of “potential sexual abuse of a minor by an officer” days before that officer sexually assaulted her in 2020, when she was 15.

The existence of the text messages, which The Post first reported Thursday, contradicts the city’s previous claims in federal court that there is no evidence that any NOPD policymaker had notice of any inappropriate behavior by Officer Rodney Vicknair, according to the victim’s motion.
Now the jury trial, which was set to begin Monday, will be rescheduled while the two sides debate the relevance of the text messages — and what they mean for the city’s liability in the case.

Text messages in September 2020 between Susan Hutson, then the New Orleans independent police monitor, and Shaun Ferguson, then the city police department’s superintendent. (New Orleans Office of the Independent Police Monitor/Obtained by The Washington Post)
The victim, whom The Post is identifying by her middle name, Nicole, said she feels she is being betrayed by the police department for a second time.

Why do so few of you seem concerned about this, when it's done out of pure malice and most of the time the police officer gets away with it, or only receives a shorts sentence. I get that the shootings are awful, isn't it just as bad of even worse when law enforcement purposely commits this type of crime and the justice department often lets the offender off or gives them probation.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread. I was disgusted that so many posters seemed to ignore that the huge number of police who have been sexually abusing children and very young women didn't seem important enough to discuss.

that’s not really the takeaway I get from this thread. I’m sure everyone here is appalled by this behavior, which is probably more insidious than shootings. But, so much focus has been on shootings and so much defense of shootings by members here that those have dominated the conversation.

 

[bilby]

Here's another example of police misconduct regarding sexually assaulting teens.

https://wapo.st/3Vn3lLg

Hours after The Washington Post published an investigation into a New Orleans police officer who sexually abused a teen he met responding to a rape report, a judge delayed the trial for her civil case against the city.

The victim’s lawyers, in a motion filed Thursday, accused the city of withholding “highly relevant text messages.” The texts show the head of the New Orleans Police Department was notified of “potential sexual abuse of a minor by an officer” days before that officer sexually assaulted her in 2020, when she was 15.

The existence of the text messages, which The Post first reported Thursday, contradicts the city’s previous claims in federal court that there is no evidence that any NOPD policymaker had notice of any inappropriate behavior by Officer Rodney Vicknair, according to the victim’s motion.
Now the jury trial, which was set to begin Monday, will be rescheduled while the two sides debate the relevance of the text messages — and what they mean for the city’s liability in the case.

Text messages in September 2020 between Susan Hutson, then the New Orleans independent police monitor, and Shaun Ferguson, then the city police department’s superintendent. (New Orleans Office of the Independent Police Monitor/Obtained by The Washington Post)
The victim, whom The Post is identifying by her middle name, Nicole, said she feels she is being betrayed by the police department for a second time.

Why do so few of you seem concerned about this, when it's done out of pure malice and most of the time the police officer gets away with it, or only receives a shorts sentence. I get that the shootings are awful, isn't it just as bad of even worse when law enforcement purposely commits this type of crime and the justice department often lets the offender off or gives them probation.

I agree. The police should not only not have relative impunity, but should be held to a higher standard, and be punished more severely than other civillians, if they fail to meet that standard.

And that should apply to any offences, from homicide, through sexual or violent assaults, down to littering and parking offences.

 

[Gospel]

Bartow police officer arrested after sending video of naked teen girls to fellow officers​

Bartow police officer arrested after sending video of naked teen girls to fellow officers: Sheriff Grady Judd

A police officer with the Bartow Police Department was arrested, according to Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd.

www.fox13news.com

My favorite sheriff, Grady Judd, speaks on this. This isn't the first time Judd arrested an officer.

 

[Gospel]

The number of crimes committed by that officer is staggering.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Consider a local case that the protesters tried to make something of:

Cop notes a car on the hot sheet, calls for backup and follows. The driver realizes a cop is following and tries to run for it. Oops, he doesn't know the terrain and corners himself when the road suddenly ends because the bridge hasn't been built yet. The cop blocks the road and continues to wait for backup. The driver gets out and points a "gun" (turned out to be a realistic replica) at the cop. What's the cop supposed to deescalate??

Perhaps he shouldn't have had an "I'm-not-going-back attitude", or have considered an exchange of fire as preferable to retreat and containment while backup arrives.

You say he's blocked the road; Where is the suspect going to go?

Imagine, for a moment, that the cop realises ("oops!") that he has no ammunition for his own gun. He cannot shoot.

What he does next, is de-escalation.

In most cases the answer would be "die".

In the absence if the possibility of deploying lethal force, cops have to actually do policing. I know American cops would rather not, as lethal violence is so much easier, and doesn't encroach do badly on valuable donut eating time; But it's very much a possibility.

This was before BLM but it got the same sort of treatment because it was an "unarmed" 16? year old "kid" with no rap sheet.

...and no actual gun.

The shooting of unarmed people is exactly the kind of thing cops are employed to prevent.

Your (or their) lack of imagination is not an acceptable excuse for killing people.

The vast majority of shootings are entirely justified.

 

[Gospel]

The vast majority of shootings are entirely justified.

Relevance? I guess you're the type who would finish their meal and leave a tip even after finding a rats tail in it, just because a vast amount of dishes at the restaurant were well-prepared.