Political correctness gone mad

[Philos]

Folks,

My wife and I walked through a pedestrian underpass in the town last week. I was surprised to see some graffiti on the wall. It was a girl's name and then '..is a Jew'. I found it most upsetting to see this kind of stuff in our town and a person's name included.

My wife agreed and when we got home she phoned the local council.

Today we were back in town and walked through the same underpass. The council had painted over the wall and obscured the graffiti. It was gone.

Alex.

 

[untermensche]

Where does it end?

What if somebody puts up: "Trump is the final solution for the Muslim problem."

 

[fast]

Gone mad?

 

[DBT]

It seems to be more an issue of someone's name being displayed in public rather than political correctness. Would it have got the same response had there been no name, just some sort of comment on Jews in general?

 

[Philos]

It seems to be more an issue of someone's name being displayed in public rather than political correctness. Would it have got the same response had there been no name, just some sort of comment on Jews in general?

DBT,

If it had been:

"I love Becky Brown" or "Bill Brown is gay" or "Fred Williams is Welsh" there would have been no phone call.

The Jewish history is known, but what concerned me is that even now, after all these years since the holocaust, a young person would know that "Jew" is perhaps the most stigmatising term to be posted on a wall. That is how I and my wife saw it and obviously how the council saw it, as they reacted so quickly. It takes some very serious sxxx to get the council moving in our county.

Alex.

 

[DBT]

It seems to be more an issue of someone's name being displayed in public rather than political correctness. Would it have got the same response had there been no name, just some sort of comment on Jews in general?

DBT,

If it had been:

"I love Becky Brown" or "Bill Brown is gay" or "Fred Williams is Welsh" there would have been no phone call.

The Jewish history is known, but what concerned me is that even now, after all these years since the holocaust, a young person would know that "Jew" is perhaps the most stigmatising term to be posted on a wall. That is how I and my wife saw it and obviously how the council saw it, as they reacted so quickly. It takes some very serious sxxx to get the council moving in our county.

Alex.

Fair enough, I see your point. Just as a hypothetical, what if it had it been 'John Brown is a Muslim' - given the current climate, would that be considered worse?

 

[Philos]

Fair enough, I see your point. Just as a hypothetical, what if it had it been 'John Brown is a Muslim' - given the current climate, would that be considered worse?

DBT,

This could be fiendishly complex. Consider these graffitis.

1. John Brown is a Muslim

2. Becky Brown is a Jew

3. Muhammad Hussein is a Muslim

4. Abraham Cohen is a Jew

Now, 3 and 4 don't seem offensive as they are pointlessly obvious. With 1 and 2, they would appear to be of insulting intent. However, the word 'Muslim' does not carry racial overtones with me, as there are all kinds of muslims in the world, and many Westerners have converted to Islam. I don't see muslims as victims here in the UK, although some might see them as threats.

The word 'Jew' feels different and racial. For example, I don't think anyone can convert to being a Jew. Also, as mentioned there is the terrible history of cruelty against Jewish people.

What upset my wife and I was the thought that a young person in a quiet country town is going to know that daubing the word "Jew" in paint in a public place is reminiscent of the Nazis. I think that is why the council cleaned it off so very quickly. Antisemitism is (IMHO) near the bottom of the racist barrel.

Alex.

 

[Tigers!]

The word 'Jew' feels different and racial. For example, I don't think anyone can convert to being a Jew. Also, as mentioned there is the terrible history of cruelty against Jewish people.

What upset my wife and I was the thought that a young person in a quiet country town is going to know that daubing the word "Jew" in paint in a public place is reminiscent of the Nazis. I think that is why the council cleaned it off so very quickly. Antisemitism is (IMHO) near the bottom of the racist barrel.

Alex.

It is saddening to me that just 70 years after the Holocaust I can find far too many young Aussies who think the Holocaust was faked or greatly over-stated.

 

[ronburgundy]

It didn't say "... is a dirty Jew." So, that seems like progress.

Is the thread title intended as a critique of anyone claiming that political correctness is ever excessive?

That would imply that deliberately trying to insult someone and spread hatred against them by using their ethnicity as though it is an inherent insult is the same and no worse than eating Kung Pao Chicken without meditating on all of its deep cultural meanings.

BTW, had the grafitti read "Joe is a godless atheist" it would still be there, despite atheists being the most hated group in American and being targeted for assault, murder, and genocide by everyone throughout history, including the Jews.

 

[fromderinside]

We aren't going forward. Tribalism is front and center. Need more secularism, not drunken secularism, not wishful secularism, just good old secularism.

Give me some of that old time secularism.

People trying out their new found handwriting ability with tribal slogans is one thing, but, Russia or India claiming ethnicity or faith is reason to go to war is quite another.
OK Shammus? :devil-smiley-029:

 

[Underseer]

Folks,

My wife and I walked through a pedestrian underpass in the town last week. I was surprised to see some graffiti on the wall. It was a girl's name and then '..is a Jew'. I found it most upsetting to see this kind of stuff in our town and a person's name included.

My wife agreed and when we got home she phoned the local council.

Today we were back in town and walked through the same underpass. The council had painted over the wall and obscured the graffiti. It was gone.

Alex.

They were obviously attacking the free speech rights of whoever wrote that. Those social justice warriors will stoop to anything in order to destroy our freedoms!

- - - Updated - - -

It didn't say "... is a dirty Jew." So, that seems like progress.

Is the thread title intended as a critique of anyone claiming that political correctness is ever excessive?

That would imply that deliberately trying to insult someone and spread hatred against them by using their ethnicity as though it is an inherent insult is the same and no worse than eating Kung Pao Chicken without meditating on all of its deep cultural meanings.

BTW, had the grafitti read "Joe is a godless atheist" it would still be there, despite atheists being the most hated group in American and being targeted for assault, murder, and genocide by everyone throughout history, including the Jews.

Oh look, a special pleading fallacy.

I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you!

 

[ronburgundy]

They were obviously attacking the free speech rights of whoever wrote that. Those social justice warriors will stoop to anything in order to destroy our freedoms!

- - - Updated - - -

It didn't say "... is a dirty Jew." So, that seems like progress.

Is the thread title intended as a critique of anyone claiming that political correctness is ever excessive?

That would imply that deliberately trying to insult someone and spread hatred against them by using their ethnicity as though it is an inherent insult is the same and no worse than eating Kung Pao Chicken without meditating on all of its deep cultural meanings.

BTW, had the grafitti read "Joe is a godless atheist" it would still be there, despite atheists being the most hated group in American and being targeted for assault, murder, and genocide by everyone throughout history, including the Jews.

Oh look, a special pleading fallacy.

I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you!

Oh look, underseer has no clue what a special pleading fallacy is or how to comprehend an argument!

I'm not shocked.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

It is saddening to me that just 70 years after the Holocaust I can find far too many young Aussies who think the Holocaust was faked or greatly over-stated.

It wasn't faked. It has been overplayed and exploited. Few remember that it included more than just Jews (where is the "Roma state"?). Mere criticism of Israel gets people called nazis.

As for the OP, I don't see what this has to do with political correctness.

 

[Philos]

Is the thread title intended as a critique of anyone claiming that political correctness is ever excessive?

ron,

The mildly ironical thread title was intended to indicate a different claim from the above. My view is that 'political correctness' is sometimes correct and right. The rest of the OP is my example.

Alex.

 

[Philos]

It is saddening to me that just 70 years after the Holocaust I can find far too many young Aussies who think the Holocaust was faked or greatly over-stated.

Tigers,

I have just watched an excellent National Geographic documentary on Youtube which would quickly put that right. It is called 'Hitler's last year'.

Part of the film deals with how many people in the Allied countries were unable to believe journalist accounts of what was happening. I think it is understandable that some folks can't or don't want to deal with such bleak horror.

Alex.

 

[bilby]

It didn't say "... is a dirty Jew." So, that seems like progress.

Is the thread title intended as a critique of anyone claiming that political correctness is ever excessive?

That would imply that deliberately trying to insult someone and spread hatred against them by using their ethnicity as though it is an inherent insult is the same and no worse than eating Kung Pao Chicken without meditating on all of its deep cultural meanings.

BTW, had the grafitti read "Joe is a godless atheist" it would still be there, despite atheists being the most hated group in American and being targeted for assault, murder, and genocide by everyone throughout history, including the Jews.

Atheists are a majority (or near majority, depending on whose data you trust, and on your criteria for identifying atheists) in the UK, where this graffiti occurred; so it quite probably would still be there, mostly because people would not consider it to be even remotely insulting. Accusing a Pom of atheism is like accusing him of having blue eyes - it's too common a trait to be an effective insult.

 

[bilby]

The word 'Jew' feels different and racial. For example, I don't think anyone can convert to being a Jew. Also, as mentioned there is the terrible history of cruelty against Jewish people.

What upset my wife and I was the thought that a young person in a quiet country town is going to know that daubing the word "Jew" in paint in a public place is reminiscent of the Nazis. I think that is why the council cleaned it off so very quickly. Antisemitism is (IMHO) near the bottom of the racist barrel.

Alex.

It is saddening to me that just 70 years after the Holocaust I can find far too many young Aussies who think the Holocaust was faked or greatly over-stated.

People struggle to accept extreme events as true; that's why conspiracy theories are so common in the wake of shocking occurrences. Holocaust denial is a kind of anti-conspiracy theory, in that it claims that a well understood and documented conspiracy by a major government to harm a large fraction of their citizens, did not take place.

I guess it is a cognitive safety mechanism - when someone reports something sufficiently horrifying, there is a tendency to seek a less threatening explanation. 9-11 is better if it is an inside job, because we expect a large and powerful organization to be able to do severe and traumatizing damage; accepting that a dozen ordinary blokes with box-cutters can do that level of damage would mean accepting that you could die at any moment with no warning, no way to see the danger coming, and no defence against it.

When confronted with the holocaust, most people defend themselves with the myth that it couldn't happen here, and that the Nazis were uniquely evil; But some prefer the myth that it never happened at all. Both myths are dangerous.

 

[ronburgundy]

Is the thread title intended as a critique of anyone claiming that political correctness is ever excessive?

ron,

The mildly ironical thread title was intended to indicate a different claim from the above. My view is that 'political correctness' is sometimes correct and right. The rest of the OP is my example.

Alex.

So, then you have no problem with claims that political correctness is sometimes absurd and wrong? The irony certainly seems like a backhanded attempt to critique that claim.

BTW, personal insults for the purpose of trying to cause distress to someone are not a violation of political correctness, but of ethical correctness. The "political" in the term refers specifically to when a demand about what should or should be said or done is neither scientifically/factually incorrect or incorrect in accord with basic and largely universal ethical principles, but rather only "incorrect" in being out of step with an unreasonable narrow dogma.
For example, saying "Only dirty niggers have dreadlocks" is ethically incorrect and factually incorrect. whereas a white person with dreadlocks is doing nothing remotely unethical or objectively incorrect, but is violating the PC rules according to a narrow minded intolerant dogma.

 

[ronburgundy]

It didn't say "... is a dirty Jew." So, that seems like progress.

Is the thread title intended as a critique of anyone claiming that political correctness is ever excessive?

That would imply that deliberately trying to insult someone and spread hatred against them by using their ethnicity as though it is an inherent insult is the same and no worse than eating Kung Pao Chicken without meditating on all of its deep cultural meanings.

BTW, had the grafitti read "Joe is a godless atheist" it would still be there, despite atheists being the most hated group in American and being targeted for assault, murder, and genocide by everyone throughout history, including the Jews.

Atheists are a majority (or near majority, depending on whose data you trust, and on your criteria for identifying atheists) in the UK, where this graffiti occurred; so it quite probably would still be there, mostly because people would not consider it to be even remotely insulting. Accusing a Pom of atheism is like accusing him of having blue eyes - it's too common a trait to be an effective insult.

Jews don't consider it remotely insulting to be a Jew either. The problem isn't whether the named person feel it is insulting to be X, but that X is clearly being used in a derogatory sense to convey that all Xs are bad. It is intended as an attack on all members of a group.

 

[bilby]

Atheists are a majority (or near majority, depending on whose data you trust, and on your criteria for identifying atheists) in the UK, where this graffiti occurred; so it quite probably would still be there, mostly because people would not consider it to be even remotely insulting. Accusing a Pom of atheism is like accusing him of having blue eyes - it's too common a trait to be an effective insult.

Jews don't consider it remotely insulting to be a Jew either. The problem isn't whether the named person feel it is insulting to be X, but that X is clearly being used in a derogatory sense to convey that all Xs are bad. It is intended as an attack on all members of a group.

Sure. But it doesn't work without that background of insult; If someone says 'Joe Bloggs has blue eyes!', it's neither an insult to Joe, nor to blue eyed people, absent a context in which the iris-pigmentally challenged have been targets of abuse.

The context of abuse of atheists in the USA might render "Joe is a godless atheist" an insult in the USA; But no comparable culture exists in 21st Century Britain, so in that context, the insult would fall flat - people, likely including Joe, would not see it and be angered, upset, or disgusted; they would see it and shrug.