Political correctness out of control

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I'll give special consideration, because I wouldn't expect a köttbullar to get it.

In my neighborhood, no one would ask me how I know when the word "nigger" is intended as a slur, without regard to whether there is any shame in being the thing to which the slur refers.

So basically... you can't explain it? As I see it, accepting racial descriptions as slurs is just giving free ammunition to racists. I don't see how that benefits anybody. Creating an environment of egg-shells to transverse isn't going to make the world a better place. I promise.

Your commentary strikes me as odd because it attributes the creation to external people of the creation. I mean, neither politically correct nor slaves created the negative connotation of the n-word. It happened because jerks added the connotation by their actions while using the word. Connotations get added to words over time in such a way. History happens.

 

[Bronzeage]

So basically... you can't explain it? As I see it, accepting racial descriptions as slurs is just giving free ammunition to racists. I don't see how that benefits anybody. Creating an environment of egg-shells to transverse isn't going to make the world a better place. I promise.

Your commentary strikes me as odd because it attributes the creation to external people of the creation. I mean, neither politically correct nor slaves created the negative connotation of the n-word. It happened because jerks added the connotation by their actions while using the word. Connotations get added to words over time in such a way. History happens.

The word nigger is a fairly new construction in human history. When Shakespeare wrote Othello, there was enough respect for Moorish intelligence and skill that it was perfectly plausible for a black man to be the Supreme Commander of the Venetian Empire's military. At the time, the cities of North Africa were much nicer places than anyplace in Europe.

When Europeans encountered people from middle and southern Africa, things were different. Instead of grand palaces, they found nomads herding cattle and farmers living in thatched huts. The various romance language words derived from the Latin word "niger", became the word nigger. The English were more interested in North America, so their colloquial term for a black person remained "Blackamoore" or simply, "moore", until they became involved in the slave trade to the North American colonies. The word became firmly entrenched in the Empire when the Brits moved into India.

The denigration of the term "niger" comes from the idea that the middle and southern Africans were a sub-class of humans. This is something most white peoples have never experienced.

There have been Caucasian slaves as long as there have been Caucasians, but there was never a time when having white skin placed someone in an inferior sub-human class.

When someone wants to insult me based on race, the worst they can do is call me by the label of the white people despised by other white people, that is "white trash" or "cracker." That really doesn't stick because I was born into a home where everyone wore shoes outdoors.

When I was young, calling a white person a "nigger" was viewed as evidence of a simple mind, unless there was suspicion they might only be passing for white. If one really wanted to insult a white person, the most effective label was "nigger lover." There's all kinds of trouble tied up in that one.

 

[angelo]

The pc brigades are unwittingly drowning democracy and the best virtue of it : free speech.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

people who are socially inept and/or rude and cretinous boors often view correction of gauche behavior as being political correctness, when in reality such critique is simply correct.

 

[TSwizzle]

The pc brigades are unwittingly drowning democracy and the best virtue of it : free speech.

Unwittingly ? You are very naive.

 

[4321lynx]

Your commentary strikes me as odd because it attributes the creation to external people of the creation. I mean, neither politically correct nor slaves created the negative connotation of the n-word. It happened because jerks added the connotation by their actions while using the word. Connotations get added to words over time in such a way. History happens.

The word nigger is a fairly new construction in human history. When Shakespeare wrote Othello, there was enough respect for Moorish intelligence and skill that it was perfectly plausible for a black man to be the Supreme Commander of the Venetian Empire's military. At the time, the cities of North Africa were much nicer places than anyplace in Europe.

When Europeans encountered people from middle and southern Africa, things were different. Instead of grand palaces, they found nomads herding cattle and farmers living in thatched huts. The various romance language words derived from the Latin word "niger", became the word nigger. The English were more interested in North America, so their colloquial term for a black person remained "Blackamoore" or simply, "moore", until they became involved in the slave trade to the North American colonies. The word became firmly entrenched in the Empire when the Brits moved into India.

The denigration of the term "niger" comes from the idea that the middle and southern Africans were a sub-class of humans. This is something most white peoples have never experienced.

There have been Caucasian slaves as long as there have been Caucasians, but there was never a time when having white skin placed someone in an inferior sub-human class.

When someone wants to insult me based on race, the worst they can do is call me by the label of the white people despised by other white people, that is "white trash" or "cracker." That really doesn't stick because I was born into a home where everyone wore shoes outdoors.

When I was young, calling a white person a "nigger" was viewed as evidence of a simple mind, unless there was suspicion they might only be passing for white. If one really wanted to insult a white person, the most effective label was "nigger lover." There's all kinds of trouble tied up in that one.

The etymology of the word notwithstanding, surely the insult is in the user's intention.

"New York Yankees", does not contain an insult.

If I call Americans "Yankees", there may or may not be an insult intended. Also, in individual cases, I am simply wrong/inaccurate as many were not born & bred
in the Northeast US states.
If I call Americans "Yanks", clearly (to most) that is an insult, whether a mild teasing among friends, or a contemptous term for Americans, whether used to their face or behind their backs.
"Bloody Yanks", makes my intention clear.

"Bloody Yanks, overpaid, oversexed, and over here", shows some of the reasons the British Tommies used the expression in 1942-46 and later.

Nigger is insulting in every case, except perhaps its use by African Americans themselves in joking or teasing.

Negro and Black seem OK to me but if AA do not like it, I will not use it. (AA here is not a sly insult of any kind, just my off the top of my head abbreviation, a sign of my weak typing skills) I will not use it again as it involves too much typing in explanation. Inaccuracy here is that African American may be mistakenly used of Melanesians, dark skinned Indians (from India, eh? ie NOT "aboriginals" or, in Canada, "members of First Nations") etc, etc. where Black would be more accurate.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

The word nigger is a fairly new construction in human history. When Shakespeare wrote Othello, there was enough respect for Moorish intelligence and skill that it was perfectly plausible for a black man to be the Supreme Commander of the Venetian Empire's military. At the time, the cities of North Africa were much nicer places than anyplace in Europe.

When Europeans encountered people from middle and southern Africa, things were different. Instead of grand palaces, they found nomads herding cattle and farmers living in thatched huts. The various romance language words derived from the Latin word "niger", became the word nigger. The English were more interested in North America, so their colloquial term for a black person remained "Blackamoore" or simply, "moore", until they became involved in the slave trade to the North American colonies. The word became firmly entrenched in the Empire when the Brits moved into India.

The denigration of the term "niger" comes from the idea that the middle and southern Africans were a sub-class of humans. This is something most white peoples have never experienced.

There have been Caucasian slaves as long as there have been Caucasians, but there was never a time when having white skin placed someone in an inferior sub-human class.

When someone wants to insult me based on race, the worst they can do is call me by the label of the white people despised by other white people, that is "white trash" or "cracker." That really doesn't stick because I was born into a home where everyone wore shoes outdoors.

When I was young, calling a white person a "nigger" was viewed as evidence of a simple mind, unless there was suspicion they might only be passing for white. If one really wanted to insult a white person, the most effective label was "nigger lover." There's all kinds of trouble tied up in that one.

The etymology of the word notwithstanding, surely the insult is in the user's intention.

"New York Yankees", does not contain an insult.

If I call Americans "Yankees", there may or may not be an insult intended. Also, in individual cases, I am simply wrong/inaccurate as many were not born & bred
in the Northeast US states.
If I call Americans "Yanks", clearly (to most) that is an insult, whether a mild teasing among friends, or a contemptous term for Americans, whether used to their face or behind their backs.
"Bloody Yanks", makes my intention clear.

"Bloody Yanks, overpaid, oversexed, and over here", shows some of the reasons the British Tommies used the expression in 1942-46 and later.

Bloody is a separate word and often used in a derogatory way because the user is angry or whatever, like 'bloody hell.' to add a label of a group of people may indicate anger directed toward that group depending on the rest of the sentence and context. "Bloody Australians," "Bloody Brits," "Bloody anything..."

When niger was first used in early Colonial America it seems to have come from the Latin and actually it was not meant as a slur. The first documented use (which likely was not the first use) was in an anti-slavery pamphlet by Samuel Sewall. In the pamphlet Sewall referenced biblical verse and Latin phrases. In English he wrote about both "Negros" and "Nigers" seeming to use the terms interchangeably. So, it seems to have been the historical usage that added the negative connotation. In any case, it's there.

I heard my father use the word "nigger-rigged" as in he "nigger-rigged" some device to get it to work. For context, I first saw my father when I was 30 years old or so. I had only seen him a few times by the time he said that to me. I was talking on the phone with him and it was the first time I heard him use the n-word or a variant thereof. I got quiet on my end of the phone. He then responded to the silence and said he didn't think all black people were bad. n-word was a term for the bad ones he said. He also claimed that the n-word could even be applied to some Whites. So whatever it means it means something bad in that kind of context.

It doesn't necessarily mean something bad when two Black people are having a discussion and one calls the other "my nigger."

So yeah, slurs can mean something different in context or perhaps have other meanings. It does not mean they are not slurs.

 

[Bronzeage]

The word nigger is a fairly new construction in human history. When Shakespeare wrote Othello, there was enough respect for Moorish intelligence and skill that it was perfectly plausible for a black man to be the Supreme Commander of the Venetian Empire's military. At the time, the cities of North Africa were much nicer places than anyplace in Europe.

When Europeans encountered people from middle and southern Africa, things were different. Instead of grand palaces, they found nomads herding cattle and farmers living in thatched huts. The various romance language words derived from the Latin word "niger", became the word nigger. The English were more interested in North America, so their colloquial term for a black person remained "Blackamoore" or simply, "moore", until they became involved in the slave trade to the North American colonies. The word became firmly entrenched in the Empire when the Brits moved into India.

The denigration of the term "niger" comes from the idea that the middle and southern Africans were a sub-class of humans. This is something most white peoples have never experienced.

There have been Caucasian slaves as long as there have been Caucasians, but there was never a time when having white skin placed someone in an inferior sub-human class.

When someone wants to insult me based on race, the worst they can do is call me by the label of the white people despised by other white people, that is "white trash" or "cracker." That really doesn't stick because I was born into a home where everyone wore shoes outdoors.

When I was young, calling a white person a "nigger" was viewed as evidence of a simple mind, unless there was suspicion they might only be passing for white. If one really wanted to insult a white person, the most effective label was "nigger lover." There's all kinds of trouble tied up in that one.

The etymology of the word notwithstanding, surely the insult is in the user's intention.

"New York Yankees", does not contain an insult.

If I call Americans "Yankees", there may or may not be an insult intended. Also, in individual cases, I am simply wrong/inaccurate as many were not born & bred
in the Northeast US states.
If I call Americans "Yanks", clearly (to most) that is an insult, whether a mild teasing among friends, or a contemptous term for Americans, whether used to their face or behind their backs.
"Bloody Yanks", makes my intention clear.

"Bloody Yanks, overpaid, oversexed, and over here", shows some of the reasons the British Tommies used the expression in 1942-46 and later.

Nigger is insulting in every case, except perhaps its use by African Americans themselves in joking or teasing.

Negro and Black seem OK to me but if AA do not like it, I will not use it. (AA here is not a sly insult of any kind, just my off the top of my head abbreviation, a sign of my weak typing skills) I will not use it again as it involves too much typing in explanation. Inaccuracy here is that African American may be mistakenly used of Melanesians, dark skinned Indians (from India, eh? ie NOT "aboriginals" or, in Canada, "members of First Nations") etc, etc. where Black would be more accurate.

I forgot about Yankee. The usual response to being called a Yankee is, "Now, you're just being nasty."

 

[fromderinside]

The etymology of the word notwithstanding, surely the insult is in the user's intention.

"New York Yankees", does not contain an insult.

If I call Americans "Yankees", there may or may not be an insult intended. Also, in individual cases, I am simply wrong/inaccurate as many were not born & bred
in the Northeast US states.
If I call Americans "Yanks", clearly (to most) that is an insult, whether a mild teasing among friends, or a contemptous term for Americans, whether used to their face or behind their backs.
"Bloody Yanks", makes my intention clear.

"Bloody Yanks, overpaid, oversexed, and over here", shows some of the reasons the British Tommies used the expression in 1942-46 and later.

Nigger is insulting in every case, except perhaps its use by African Americans themselves in joking or teasing.

Negro and Black seem OK to me but if AA do not like it, I will not use it. (AA here is not a sly insult of any kind, just my off the top of my head abbreviation, a sign of my weak typing skills) I will not use it again as it involves too much typing in explanation. Inaccuracy here is that African American may be mistakenly used of Melanesians, dark skinned Indians (from India, eh? ie NOT "aboriginals" or, in Canada, "members of First Nations") etc, etc. where Black would be more accurate.

I forgot about Yankee. The usual response to being called a Yankee is, "Now, you're just being nasty."

Spoken just like a traitorous reb.

 

[fast]

I forgot about Yankee. The usual response to being called a Yankee is, "Now, you're just being nasty."

Spoken just like a traitorous reb.

The Civil War is not over, so it might not be a good idea to intentionally incite others to violence.

 

[Bronzeage]

Spoken just like a traitorous reb.

The Civil War is not over, so it might not be a good idea to intentionally incite others to violence.

When I started first grade in Mississippi, my classmates called me a yankee when they learned I had just moved from North Carolina.

 

[Bomb#20]

He gave you evidence in the form of the examples. "Negro" was used in numerous positive pro-black contexts, like "United Negro College Fund", and was the word of choice among academic discussions, including those where no theories of inferiority were implied and the goal was non-ideological discourse. Where, when, why, and by whom it was used followed a pattern indicating non-judgmental neutrality, in contrast to "nigger" which had become used almost exclusively in a contexts indicating negative emotions and unfavorable judgment. Also, notice how modern racists trying to make their feelings clear choose "nigger" over "negro" almost every time. Negro never developed the emotionally negative connotation of nigger, and that is central to the concept of a slur .

None of that means that "[t]he notion that 'Negro' is a slur isn't based on hearing people using it as a slur" or similar claims. Your argument is like saying that wanted restrictions on gun use are not based on anyone doing anything wrong with guns and then to go on about all the good things that can be done with guns. Good things that can be done with guns is simply not an argument that bad things cannot be done with guns.

Well it would be like saying that, if we were unfamiliar with gun murders and the concept of doing anything wrong with guns were speculative. Anyone claiming "Negro" is a slur because people use it that way is making a positive claim and has burden of proof.

ETA: I will add that there are a bunch of other claims in there that I had intended really to focus upon. Bomb#20 seems to have been just trying to dish out some negative comments directed at the "politically correct"

What I was trying to do is give DZ, who has already indicated that he opposes political correctness, a reason not to say "nigger" that is independent of political correctness and predates PC's emergence as a social force. Got a problem with that? What, are you like a Christian pretending the Bible invented "Don't steal."?

with no evidence and the comments seem to make little sense. So, here's an example:
On the one hand, he writes, "it's simply a now unfashionable word for an ethnic group that has periodically changed its collective mind about what it prefers to be called." But then later in the rant he writes, "it's a recent invention of politically correct people looking for yet another club to beat the non-anointed with." So who invented the slur-ness of the word "Negro" again?

A word becoming unfashionable is not the same thing as people claiming the word is a slur. African-Americans invented the word's unfashionableness; PC police invented its make-believe slur-ness. Duh!

Was it an "ethnic group" that allegedly collectively changes its mind because you know, they all act in unison,

It's a metaphor. Are you seriously unfamiliar with the phenomenon of a meme suddenly becoming a fad and racing through a culture? You saw Crazy Eddie complaining that the replacement term for Negro, Black, had itself been replaced by African-American, didn't you? Fashions change so suddenly and for so little externally visible reason that it resembles a collective mind from the point of view of those who don't act in unison.

OR was it the PC police? Did they co-invent the negative connotation of "negro?" Or did the PC police claim it and then brainwash Black people into collectively all thinking it's an insult? Generally speaking, how do these two groups interact to beat the "unannointed?"

Who the heck said Black people were beating the unanointed? As far as I can tell, PC police of whatever color can manage that just fine all on your own. Did you need help from Black people that time you trumped up a racism charge against me just like the one Dutch_labrat and iolo trumped up against Metaphor? No, the interaction is the other way around -- you think I came up with the idea of calling PC people "the anointed"? I got that from a Black guy.

Next, we've got accusations of the PC police using unfalsifiable claims to further their agenda. There's an attack on PC police's motivations, which guess what? Seems just as unfalsifiable as the alleged attack that the PC police allegedly do to people using the word "Negro." It should be noted that people do indeed use the word "Negro" to get a rise out of others sometimes. We've had some posters come into this forum over the years, clearly trolling and insulting using that word.

Well, sure, it's a fine way to get a rise out of the PC police, now that your collective mind has made such an issue of it. Saying "Negro" is a way to rub your noses in your failure to get the obedience you so obviously crave. But which posters have come into this forum using "Negro" to imply there's something wrong with being black, as opposed to implying there's something wrong with being self-anointed?

 

[angelo]

The pc brigades are unwittingly drowning democracy and the best virtue of it : free speech.

Unwittingly ? You are very naive.

It would not surprise me its done on purpose. After all, their ideology states that if someone disagrees with them, or criticises their pet loves, they should be shut up.

 

[fast]

The Civil War is not over, so it might not be a good idea to intentionally incite others to violence.

When I started first grade in Mississippi, my classmates called me a yankee when they learned I had just moved from North Carolina.

They had good-hearted intentions: to show disdain for the enemy. They just made the innocent mistake of thinking you were the enemy because of the word, "North" in the state name you moved from.

 

[Bronzeage]

When I started first grade in Mississippi, my classmates called me a yankee when they learned I had just moved from North Carolina.

They had good-hearted intentions: to show disdain for the enemy. They just made the innocent mistake of thinking you were the enemy because of the word, "North" in the state name you moved from.

I out did them, since I was born in Panama, which is farther south than they had ever been.

 

[fast]

They had good-hearted intentions: to show disdain for the enemy. They just made the innocent mistake of thinking you were the enemy because of the word, "North" in the state name you moved from.

I out did them, since I was born in Panama, which is farther south than they had ever been.

Foreigner!

 

[angelo]

Where is Panama on the map?

 

[bilby]

Where is Panama on the map?

Here.

 

[angelo]

Where is Panama on the map?

Here.

It's joke son, a joke! [Foghorn Leghorn]

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

This thread. Fascinating. Nobody wants to directly mention the real actual extremists of Political Correctness, they're all waiting for someone else to mention them first.

So, why not. Here goes.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOvSRB-V_8I[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk4oitsOcEQ[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUyZGtLny5o[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTrvx-iguh8[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y1GbBhu9hA[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLliPCLs74U[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMrYfKo9qoY[/youtube]