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Polls And Surveys - Trump Will Lose In 2020

Elixir

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There is still a lot of time between now and the actual election for the Democrats to screw this up and/or for Trump to pull this in out.

The possibilities are endless...

Most probable cause for a Trump victory?

1) All the Democrats are talking about how all the Democratic Candidates are terrible for the Country... just take any 30 second clip from the debates as an example... the Republicans certainly will.
2) All of the Republicans are talking about how PERFECT the ONE chosen (and incumbent) candidate for President is.

Given only this, who in their right minds would vote for anyone but Trump, who has complete and total consensus, whereas any other candidate has nothing but contention amongst their own people.

Yeah - at this time in 2015 remember what a unified bunch those 17 or so Republican candidates were? None of them ever said anything bad about their eventual choice, or raised the observation that their choice was an emotional two year old and certifiable loon ... oh, wait - yes they did. But they all shut up about that once they had to fall in line... we will see if the Dems' lack of lemminghood does them in again.
 

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But I'll also add that in addition to 2016, there has never existed any correlation between divisive or contentious primaries within a party and that party losing the general election. There is no pattern.
 

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By now it is obvious the Democratic primaries are between three candidates, Biden, Sanders and Warren. All the rest are in the low single digits and have no chance. I suspect few people are paying much attention to the lesser candidates. I do not see the loud bellowings that we had with 2016 Trump. "Low Energy Bush", "Lying Ted Cruz" etc among the Democrats.
 

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By now it is obvious the Democratic primaries are between three candidates, Biden, Sanders and Warren.

THIS is why we may lose. Biden is too geriatric to go the distance. He wasn't even on his game in 2008 and almost sunk Obama. Sanders hasn't a chance in hell against Trump. He'll be a fucking big mac to Trump in any debate and the opposition onslaught against him will be easy and massive. Warren is forever "Pocahontas" and easily bullied, which will only play to Trump's strengths. She's also not--at this point anyway--presidential, which will hurt her significantly among the very group that should support her the most (women). All of the same misogyny that Hillary faced much better would be slung Warren's way and any halfway competent VP she picks will dwarf her, forcing her to pick someone milquetoastie that will only underscore her own ineptitude, or, worse, someone "rainbow" (like Buttiegieg) which will sink her even faster as a ready made target for attack.

Unless Biden somehow regains his twenty years ago self, that 25% insurmountable gap is looking frighteningly surmountable.
 

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By now it is obvious the Democratic primaries are between three candidates, Biden, Sanders and Warren.

THIS is why we may lose. Biden is too geriatric to go the distance. He wasn't even on his game in 2008 and almost sunk Obama. Sanders hasn't a chance in hell against Trump. He'll be a fucking big mac to Trump in any debate and the opposition onslaught against him will be easy and massive. Warren is forever "Pocahontas" and easily bullied, which will only play to Trump's strengths. She's also not--at this point anyway--presidential, which will hurt her significantly among the very group that should support her the most (women). All of the same misogyny that Hillary faced much better would be slung Warren's way and any halfway competent VP she picks will dwarf her, forcing her to pick someone milquetoastie that will only underscore her own ineptitude, or, worse, someone "rainbow" (like Buttiegieg) which will sink her even faster as a ready made target for attack.

Unless Biden somehow regains his twenty years ago self, that 25% insurmountable gap is looking frighteningly surmountable.

Yup.. this does not help your team at all. In addition to the help the Dems will ignorantly supply, that I mentioned, this is why Trump will win a second term.
It's good that the Dems are taking two approaches, try to beat him in an election, or if that fails, have impeachment ready... but neither will work. Did you see how embarrassing it was for them last night in front of Trump's messenger?
You guys really think the pussies with legs that call themselves democrats are going to win anything.. at all.. ever again? Time to wake the fuck up, folks.
 

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https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...ns-in-views-of-governments-role-and-of-trump/

Pew Research

Currently, 47% of men say they approve of how Trump is handling his job as president, with an equal share saying they disapprove (47%). By contrast, 32% of women say they approve of how Trump is handling his job as president; 63% say they disapprove.

Since women voters outnumber male voters, this looks like a problem for the orange fool. Of course it all is a matter of turn out. But I don't see women voters sitting 2020 out. The full scale attack of the GOP on women's health issues, abortion, birth control, defunding planned parenthood, attacking Obamacare and more will almost surely galvanize unhappy women voters.
Ultimately, it matters more state wise, WI, MI, PA. It is hopeful though. Trump likely can't win an election if he losing more than 60% of the women vote. Of course, W was flirting with 50% and beat Kerry. And clearly conservatives are really good at holding their noses in the polls.

Bonespurs just barely squeaked by in Michigan. A lot of union autoworkers voted for him. They now feel very betrayed by him. He won't take michigan this time.

This is why auto workers feel betrayed.

70376530_2677851555570984_5675765119494127616_n.png
 

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By now it is obvious the Democratic primaries are between three candidates, Biden, Sanders and Warren.

THIS is why we may lose. Biden is too geriatric to go the distance. He wasn't even on his game in 2008 and almost sunk Obama. Sanders hasn't a chance in hell against Trump. He'll be a fucking big mac to Trump in any debate and the opposition onslaught against him will be easy and massive. Warren is forever "Pocahontas" and easily bullied, which will only play to Trump's strengths. She's also not--at this point anyway--presidential, which will hurt her significantly among the very group that should support her the most (women). All of the same misogyny that Hillary faced much better would be slung Warren's way and any halfway competent VP she picks will dwarf her, forcing her to pick someone milquetoastie that will only underscore her own ineptitude, or, worse, someone "rainbow" (like Buttiegieg) which will sink her even faster as a ready made target for attack.

Unless Biden somehow regains his twenty years ago self, that 25% insurmountable gap is looking frighteningly surmountable.


National polls show any of the top three Democrats beating Trump.

Real Clear Politics
Sanders +7%
Warren +5.2%
Biden +11.5%

Pocahantas? Orange rapist! Orange liar! Let him try that! The push back will be horrific.
 

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By now it is obvious the Democratic primaries are between three candidates, Biden, Sanders and Warren.

THIS is why we may lose. Biden is too geriatric to go the distance. He wasn't even on his game in 2008 and almost sunk Obama. Sanders hasn't a chance in hell against Trump. He'll be a fucking big mac to Trump in any debate and the opposition onslaught against him will be easy and massive. Warren is forever "Pocahontas" and easily bullied, which will only play to Trump's strengths. She's also not--at this point anyway--presidential, which will hurt her significantly among the very group that should support her the most (women). All of the same misogyny that Hillary faced much better would be slung Warren's way and any halfway competent VP she picks will dwarf her, forcing her to pick someone milquetoastie that will only underscore her own ineptitude, or, worse, someone "rainbow" (like Buttiegieg) which will sink her even faster as a ready made target for attack.

Unless Biden somehow regains his twenty years ago self, that 25% insurmountable gap is looking frighteningly surmountable.


National polls show any of the top three Democrats beating Trump.

Real Clear Politics
Sanders +7%
Warren +5.2%
Biden +11.5%

Pocahantas? Orange rapist! Orange liar! Let him try that! The push back will be horrific.

Warren has lots of experience handling children. I think she can handle Bonespurs.
 

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National polls show any of the top three Democrats beating Trump.

Real Clear Politics
Sanders +7%
Warren +5.2%
Biden +11.5%

Pocahantas? Orange rapist! Orange liar! Let him try that! The push back will be horrific.

Warren has lots of experience handling children. I think she can handle Bonespurs.

The fact that she thought actually getting a DNA test was a good response to the accusation that she wasn't Native American indicates she doesn't know how to handle him. When Trump or his supporters disagree with you, they aren't disagreeing about the facts of the matter. They are expressing an emotion about something that gives them a sense of power to do so. If it isn't Pocahontas, it's anything else; it doesn't matter the topic. I've said this before, but politics is about emotional energy and feeling like you're on the right side of something big, not about having facts and logic to back up your assertions. Anybody who insists otherwise is just one of those people who derives emotional energy from having facts and logic--and they are perhaps even more emotionally driven than those who acknowledge it.

Secondly, the idea that debates decide the winner of elections, and that of all people Donald Trump is some formidable debate opponent, is more fantastical wish-thinking from the West Wing contingent who thinks "if we could only refute all of his points, everyone would have no choice but to vote against him." It's a delusion that has never really been supported by election results compared to debate performances.

The person to beat Trump is the one who can build the largest base of support among the populations that everyone in 2016 would not shut up about being the future of our party: young people, minorities, first-time voters, women, the working poor, blue-collar union members, farmers, and LGBTQIA people. Like it or not, that's the Democratic voter of this century going forward. They care about fighting climate change, having health care, having steady employment, economic mobility, not being in debt from their education, having reproductive freedom, and not being gunned down in a war or in a shopping mall. They are upset about the gender pay gap, the wealth inequality gap, the corporate takeover of all media, and the fact that they are living more precariously than their parents did at their age. The candidate who taps into this bloc and galvanizes them out of their apathy cannot be another run-of-the-mill centrist who takes donations from the same forces that are fucking us all over while promising to hold them accountable. It can't be someone running on the politics of civility, moderation, reaching across the aisle, compromising with the far right, or watering down legislation to appeal to insurance or pharma companies. These voters are jaded; they can see right through that, and will stay home if they smell it, because they know their vote won't change anything even if they voted.
 

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By now it is obvious the Democratic primaries are between three candidates, Biden, Sanders and Warren.

THIS is why we may lose. Biden is too geriatric to go the distance. He wasn't even on his game in 2008 and almost sunk Obama. Sanders hasn't a chance in hell against Trump. He'll be a fucking big mac to Trump in any debate and the opposition onslaught against him will be easy and massive. Warren is forever "Pocahontas" and easily bullied, which will only play to Trump's strengths. She's also not--at this point anyway--presidential, which will hurt her significantly among the very group that should support her the most (women). All of the same misogyny that Hillary faced much better would be slung Warren's way and any halfway competent VP she picks will dwarf her, forcing her to pick someone milquetoastie that will only underscore her own ineptitude, or, worse, someone "rainbow" (like Buttiegieg) which will sink her even faster as a ready made target for attack.

Unless Biden somehow regains his twenty years ago self, that 25% insurmountable gap is looking frighteningly surmountable.


National polls show any of the top three Democrats beating Trump.

Real Clear Politics
Sanders +7%
Warren +5.2%
Biden +11.5%

Pocahantas? Orange rapist! Orange liar! Let him try that! The push back will be horrific.

oh for fucks sake, have you forgotten the opium you were fed in 2016 called "polls" that helped lose you key states out of the false impression of it just not mattering?

Dems never learn.. seem incapable of appealing to more than their small group of sophmoronic college classmates, and will be pretty much extinct by 2024.
 

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National polls show any of the top three Democrats beating Trump.

Real Clear Politics
Sanders +7%
Warren +5.2%
Biden +11.5%

Pocahantas? Orange rapist! Orange liar! Let him try that! The push back will be horrific.

Warren has lots of experience handling children. I think she can handle Bonespurs.

Think so, huh? maybe? hopefully? pray on it? If you "think" so, then you are wrong. You want less people to vote for Trump, and the word "think" comes to mind... There's your problem right there.
 

Elixir

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National polls show any of the top three Democrats beating Trump.

Real Clear Politics
Sanders +7%
Warren +5.2%
Biden +11.5%

Pocahantas? Orange rapist! Orange liar! Let him try that! The push back will be horrific.

Warren has lots of experience handling children. I think she can handle Bonespurs.

Think so, huh? maybe? hopefully? pray on it? If you "think" so, then you are wrong. You want less people to vote for Trump, and the word "think" comes to mind... There's your problem right there.

Dems don't need less people to vote for Cheato. It would be futile to spend energy on the stupidest 38% of the electorate anyhow - they only need to turn out their own ranks and they'll win, barring a new and greatly improved cheating scheme by Donny and Vlad.
 

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Think so, huh? maybe? hopefully? pray on it? If you "think" so, then you are wrong. You want less people to vote for Trump, and the word "think" comes to mind... There's your problem right there.

Dems don't need less people to vote for Cheato. It would be futile to spend energy on the stupidest 38% of the electorate anyhow - they only need to turn out their own ranks and they'll win, barring a new and greatly improved cheating scheme by Donny and Vlad.

THIS. People who don't like Trump are in the majority, all we need to do is give them someone they DO like, not just someone they can tolerate.
 

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Think so, huh? maybe? hopefully? pray on it? If you "think" so, then you are wrong. You want less people to vote for Trump, and the word "think" comes to mind... There's your problem right there.

Dems don't need less people to vote for Cheato. It would be futile to spend energy on the stupidest 38% of the electorate anyhow - they only need to turn out their own ranks and they'll win, barring a new and greatly improved cheating scheme by Donny and Vlad.

THIS. People who don't like Trump are in the majority, all we need to do is give them someone they DO like, not just someone they can tolerate.

disagree... The objective should be to turn out and vote not-trump. Introducing the idea that the candidate should be "tolerable" or "good enough" is exactly the problem. Of the 60% that you need, half of them are programmed to compete on wokeness and will write in the hippy bitch, vote independent, or refuse to show up on their fragile indefensible sense. If it's not Liz, she's not showing up... if it ain't Bernie, then I'll show them by not showing up
That is what is going to happen, and it is all the Dems doing... The Reps will just exploit the opportunities handed to them.

the correct approach would have been 1 candidate whose platform was "I am a normal human being". and "My plans are great. The greatest. Better than anyone who never figured out how to be president".

But you failed on that and it will be Trump 2020.
 

PyramidHead

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THIS. People who don't like Trump are in the majority, all we need to do is give them someone they DO like, not just someone they can tolerate.

disagree... The objective should be to turn out and vote not-trump. Introducing the idea that the candidate should be "tolerable" or "good enough" is exactly the problem.

That's what I just said.
 

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National polls show any of the top three Democrats beating Trump.

Real Clear Politics
Sanders +7%
Warren +5.2%
Biden +11.5%

Pocahantas? Orange rapist! Orange liar! Let him try that! The push back will be horrific.

oh for fucks sake, have you forgotten the opium you were fed in 2016 called "polls" that helped lose you key states out of the false impression of it just not mattering?

Dems never learn.. seem incapable of appealing to more than their small group of sophmoronic college classmates, and will be pretty much extinct by 2024.


This is not 2016. Trump won by flipping three states with only 77k votes. That will not happen again.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...ns-in-views-of-governments-role-and-of-trump/

Only 31% of women support Trump. Trump now has a track record. And it is not good. Lack of enthusiasm may have doomed Clinton, but lack of enthusiasm for Trump is going to be deadly Trump has 16 months to turn things around, and I don't see him becoming palatable to the newly energized women voters. A lot of pollsters and analysts in 2018 were still arguing if it was possible for the Democrats to actually win the 23 seats needed to control the House of Representitives.

The back lash gave us a blue wave. And the younger generation of voters actually turned out at the polls. I don't expect them to sit 2020 out and they are not Trump friendly.

The only 2 big questions are, who will the Democarts finally elect in the primaries, and can the Democrats take the Senate? Doable, but hard.
 

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And how long would they be making profits if they reopened those 4 plants and made a bunch of cars they couldn't sell?

View attachment 23824

Which doesn't address my point--if GM were to reopen the plants they would be losing money, not making money.

No, the point is that Bonespurs promised the autoworkers he would be on their side. He then gave GM huge tax breaks while they closed plants and laid off thousands. Are you really that poor at following along?
 

Elixir

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Which doesn't address my point--if GM were to reopen the plants they would be losing money, not making money.

No, the point is that Bonespurs promised the autoworkers he would be on their side. He then gave GM huge tax breaks while they closed plants and laid off thousands. Are you really that poor at following along?

The REAL punchline is that Cheato can tell his lemmings it's Obama's fault and they'll believe him.
 

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National polls show any of the top three Democrats beating Trump.

Real Clear Politics
Sanders +7%
Warren +5.2%
Biden +11.5%

Pocahantas? Orange rapist! Orange liar! Let him try that! The push back will be horrific.

oh for fucks sake, have you forgotten the opium you were fed in 2016 called "polls" that helped lose you key states out of the false impression of it just not mattering?

Dems never learn.. seem incapable of appealing to more than their small group of sophmoronic college classmates, and will be pretty much extinct by 2024.


This is not 2016. Trump won by flipping three states with only 77k votes. That will not happen again.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...ns-in-views-of-governments-role-and-of-trump/

Only 31% of women support Trump. Trump now has a track record. And it is not good. Lack of enthusiasm may have doomed Clinton, but lack of enthusiasm for Trump is going to be deadly Trump has 16 months to turn things around, and I don't see him becoming palatable to the newly energized women voters. A lot of pollsters and analysts in 2018 were still arguing if it was possible for the Democrats to actually win the 23 seats needed to control the House of Representitives.

The back lash gave us a blue wave. And the younger generation of voters actually turned out at the polls. I don't expect them to sit 2020 out and they are not Trump friendly.

The only 2 big questions are, who will the Democarts finally elect in the primaries, and can the Democrats take the Senate? Doable, but hard.

All of the older Dems who I know have said they will vote for whoever the nominee ends up being, even if they don't care for that person. Do you think the younger voters will do the same if someone they don't like becomes the nominee? I don't know that many young voters, so I'm asking honestly. I've voted in every election since I was old enough to vote. I've frequently voted for people who I didn't really like, because the Republican was always worse. But, sometimes I get the impression from today's most progressive young voters, that they will stay home or vote third party if they don't get their way. One would think they have learned a hard lesson last time, but some compare center left moderates to Trump, which I think is insane. What do others think?

We have three full weeks of early voting in Georgia, yet I've known some young voters that didn't even realize that, and they ended up not voting, due to their own ignorance. One told me that she had to work that day. When I told her she had three full weeks to vote, she was shocked. How the fuck do we get these apathetic voters out? I also know younger people who don't vote because they think their vote doesn't matter or the system is rigged. That never stops the older Republicans from voting. Those are some of my concerns. Trump voters will all be out there voting. I have no doubt of that. I know some of them. They are still in line with Trump, probably. because they get all of their news from Fox, or some alt right source. And many of them are evangelicals who hate abortion and love their guns.

There are days when I'm sure Trump will lose, but there are also days when I worry. Voter suppression is still a problem in many states, including mine. I don't even trust the integrity of our elections anymore. Do you?
 

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Which doesn't address my point--if GM were to reopen the plants they would be losing money, not making money.

No, the point is that Bonespurs promised the autoworkers he would be on their side. He then gave GM huge tax breaks while they closed plants and laid off thousands. Are you really that poor at following along?

Which has nothing to do with the fact that GM can't afford to reopen those plants.
 

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Which doesn't address my point--if GM were to reopen the plants they would be losing money, not making money.

No, the point is that Bonespurs promised the autoworkers he would be on their side. He then gave GM huge tax breaks while they closed plants and laid off thousands. Are you really that poor at following along?

Which has nothing to do with the fact that GM can't afford to reopen those plants.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the point. Do you or do you not see the thread title?
 

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The big point is this, Trump has a habit of making big promises, "Saving manufacturing jobs in America!" with no real plans other than empty rhetoric. So nothing happens as promised. The Trump followers, who hooted and cheered when Trump bombastically ranted about these things are beginning to see the true facts of the matter. They were had with cheap speeches, bloviating demagoguery. Factories shut down jobs go to Mexico, robots displace workers, and the CEOs get huge bonuses, and the companies make huge tax free profits.

How long can that go on with the GOP running the presidency and Senate?
 

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The big point is this, Trump has a habit of making big promises, "Saving manufacturing jobs in America!" with no real plans other than empty rhetoric. So nothing happens as promised. The Trump followers, who hooted and cheered when Trump bombastically ranted about these things are beginning to see the true facts of the matter. They were had with cheap speeches, bloviating demagoguery. Factories shut down jobs go to Mexico, robots displace workers, and the CEOs get huge bonuses, and the companies make huge tax free profits.

How long can that go on with the GOP running the presidency and Senate?

The bombastic raving has yet to begin, CC. The Trumpsucking public will soon be blessed with unequivocal statements to the effect that Mexico is sending jobs to the US, taking their rapists back and paying for The Wall (which is nearly complete), all Cheato followers will be getting CEO bonuses and double their salary for overseeing robots, and the stock market will triple along with the 401Ks of all his sycophants.

Works every time with those idiots. If he told them they could fly, we would need an army to scrape them off the sidewalks.
 

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The big point is this, Trump has a habit of making big promises, "Saving manufacturing jobs in America!" with no real plans other than empty rhetoric. So nothing happens as promised. The Trump followers, who hooted and cheered when Trump bombastically ranted about these things are beginning to see the true facts of the matter. They were had with cheap speeches, bloviating demagoguery. Factories shut down jobs go to Mexico, robots displace workers, and the CEOs get huge bonuses, and the companies make huge tax free profits.


How long can that go on with the GOP running the presidency and Senate?

The bombastic raving has yet to begin, CC. The Trumpsucking public will soon be blessed with unequivocal statements to the effect that Mexico is sending jobs to the US, taking their rapists back and paying for The Wall (which is nearly complete), all Cheato followers will be getting CEO bonuses and double their salary for overseeing robots, and the stock market will triple along with the 401Ks of all his sycophants.

Works every time with those idiots. If he told them they could fly, we would need an army to scrape them off the sidewalks.

The bombastic ranting has been Trump's method since day one. The economy recovered under Obama, but Trump has been claiming credit for that. He was going to save the coal industry from the bad old Democrats. he was going to bring back manufacturing jobs to America. Mexico was going to pay for the wall. He was a very stable genius hiring the best people.
 

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The big point is this, Trump has a habit of making big promises, "Saving manufacturing jobs in America!" with no real plans other than empty rhetoric. So nothing happens as promised. The Trump followers, who hooted and cheered when Trump bombastically ranted about these things are beginning to see the true facts of the matter. They were had with cheap speeches, bloviating demagoguery. Factories shut down jobs go to Mexico, robots displace workers, and the CEOs get huge bonuses, and the companies make huge tax free profits.


How long can that go on with the GOP running the presidency and Senate?

The bombastic raving has yet to begin, CC. The Trumpsucking public will soon be blessed with unequivocal statements to the effect that Mexico is sending jobs to the US, taking their rapists back and paying for The Wall (which is nearly complete), all Cheato followers will be getting CEO bonuses and double their salary for overseeing robots, and the stock market will triple along with the 401Ks of all his sycophants.

Works every time with those idiots. If he told them they could fly, we would need an army to scrape them off the sidewalks.

The bombastic ranting has been Trump's method since day one. The economy recovered under Obama, but Trump has been claiming credit for that. He was going to save the coal industry from the bad old Democrats. he was going to bring back manufacturing jobs to America. Mexico was going to pay for the wall. He was a very stable genius hiring the best people.

Read his prolific lips:
"I caused the great economy.
Manufacturing jobs are back.
Coal jobs are back.
Wages are the highest they've ever been.
Mexico already paid for the wall.
If you have any complaints, tell it to the Democrats."


Note how Cheato's claims are increasing distanced from fact or reason, as he and his henchmen explore the reaches of trumpsuckers' willful ignorance and focused stupidity.
They WANT to believe all that shit, and best of all it pisses off the libtards SO BAD when they (at least pretend to) believe all that shit.
I think many of them are afraid their half-brother/daddy would beat the crap out of them if they said anything questioning about Trump.
 

Cheerful Charlie

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https://www.rawstory.com/2019/09/ha...cord-of-americans-who-cant-stand-a-president/

...
A new poll shows a record number of Americans can’t stand the president of the United States.
According to the most recent NBC News/Wall Street Journal public opinion poll, an astounding 69 percent of Americans don’t like Trump personally.
...
“Given Trump’s long-standing unpopularity, a big question has always been whether he will be able to take the eventual Democratic nominee and drag them down to his level,” Blake wrote. “He showed he could do it in 2016 with Hillary Clinton, who ended the campaign as unpopular as Trump was, but it’s not clear whether he’ll be able to do it again.”
...

Dear, dear, dear. Of course it is all the fault of the main stream news. Fake news! Fake news! It is going to be a long slog to November 2020.
 

Cheerful Charlie

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Pundit brain has little to do with the fact that most Americans do not like Trump on a personal level. That fact alone may well be a pile of oily rags waiting for a spark come election time. It is quite possible by November 6, 2020, this nation will be suffering a bad case of Trump fatigue. This is just another thing to ponder on, how much of a difference will it make? Ronald Reagan, buffoon that he was, had a lot of worshipful supporters. A lot of Americans loved his ass despite his incompetence. It is nice to see that Trump does not enjoy that political advantage with a vast majority of Americans. I myself am happy to see that the Reagan Teflon effect may not adhere to Trump as election day looms. Every little bit helps. Every little obstacle to Trump's re-election is welcome. I am so happy to see that Trump is not popular, and how deep his unpopularity may run.
 

PyramidHead

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Pundit brain has little to do with the fact that most Americans do not like Trump on a personal level. That fact alone may well be a pile of oily rags waiting for a spark come election time. It is quite possible by November 6, 2020, this nation will be suffering a bad case of Trump fatigue. This is just another thing to ponder on, how much of a difference will it make? Ronald Reagan, buffoon that he was, had a lot of worshipful supporters. A lot of Americans loved his ass despite his incompetence.
Including Elizabeth Warren and Donald Trump, incidentally. :rolleyes:

It is nice to see that Trump does not enjoy that political advantage with a vast majority of Americans. I myself am happy to see that the Reagan Teflon effect may not adhere to Trump as election day looms. Every little bit helps. Every little obstacle to Trump's re-election is welcome. I am so happy to see that Trump is not popular, and how deep his unpopularity may run.
The chief symptom of pundit brain is placing victory over a political opponent above all other considerations. I do not want Trump to win. But I also do not want Biden to win, nor Harris, Booker, Yang, or Buttigieg. This is not an abberation: it's having a view of politics and trying to shape the outcome of an election to make reality closer to it. As long as we deny ourselves the right to have opinions, even (perhaps especially) starkly differing ones, about what is best for America OTHER THAN SIMPLY NOT HAVING TRUMP, we're doomed to repeat this pathetic cycle over and over again. Part of what keeps us locked into it is this tendency to think of ourselves as opportunistic onlookers rather than the main participants in what's happening around us.

All of that is fueled by obsessing over the polls and tailoring our opinions and actions around them, rather than sticking to our principles and shifting public opinion until the polls reflect our political priorities. But here is the most critical point: the idea that politics is a horse race and winning elections is a matter of betting on the best horse can only really be held by someone who is so privileged that their livelihood is basically insulated from the outcome of the election anyway. Nobody whose well-being would materially be affected by Warren winning instead of Biden, or Sanders instead of Warren, would allow themselves the luxury of blithely tracking the latest bullshit landline poll and adjusting their support accordingly.
 

Koyaanisqatsi

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The chief symptom of pundit brain is placing victory over a political opponent above all other considerations.

Strawman.

I do not want Trump to win. But I also do not want Biden to win, nor Harris, Booker, Yang, or Buttigieg. This is not an abberation

No, it is dangerously naive ignorance that is ironically directly contradicted by your "most critical point":

But here is the most critical point: the idea that politics is a horse race and winning elections is a matter of betting on the best horse can only really be held by someone who is so privileged that their livelihood is basically insulated from the outcome of the election anyway.

The idea that an election is Church and anybody gives a flying fuck about one's "conscience" when losing to someone like Trump will mean devastation to millions is the very definition of being "so privileged that their livelihood is basically insulated form the outcome of the election anyway." It's the Susan Sarandon hypocrisy all over again.

The fact that you have deified Sanders--while ignoring all of the facts that equate him to Hillary Clinton and every other Dem running (he joined us, remember?)--is simply appalling, but to stuff all of that into a strawman that ironically attempts to justify your false deity is beyond redemption and precisely the sophistry that got us Trump in the first place.

It's truly remarkable. Not only do you not learn from history, you are dead set on repeating it.
 

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This was not a post about Biden, Harris, Booker, Yang, or Buttigieg. It is about Trump. Because I ran across that little poll that showed just how deep America's dislike for Trump runs. Personal dislike for a politician can play a part in elections as Clinton found out. This is not a case of Trump being slammed by the liberal press such as Clinton was attacked for years by the right wingers. (Though he is, but rightfully so). This is a case of Trump being a vulgar, gauche, incompetent orange buffoon and people are noticing.

I find that delightful. Anything that can help him lose the election is good by me. I am somewhat surprised that the dull witted average Americans are actually noticing Trump is a Brobdingnagian sized jerk.
 

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It would almost be worth another four years of Trump to see Sanders get repeatedly ass-raped in a general election, but even then his sycophants would just continue to push the "it was rigged" deification rationalization. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. He's their messiah, therefore he's destined to be sacrificed.
 

Cheerful Charlie

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??? This is nothing about Sanders. It is about the fact that many people in a poll do not like the Orange bastard on a personal level. This poll makes me fell warm and happy. YMMV.
 

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This was not a post about Biden, Harris, Booker, Yang, or Buttigieg. It is about Trump. Because I ran across that little poll that showed just how deep America's dislike for Trump runs. Personal dislike for a politician can play a part in elections as Clinton found out. This is not a case of Trump being slammed by the liberal press such as Clinton was attacked for years by the right wingers. (Though he is, but rightfully so). This is a case of Trump being a vulgar, gauche, incompetent orange buffoon and people are noticing.

I find that delightful. Anything that can help him lose the election is good by me. I am somewhat surprised that the dull witted average Americans are actually noticing Trump is a Brobdingnagian sized jerk.

Until and unless someone can explain to me what Trump has done since being elected that was qualitatively different from his behavior for the entirety of his life until that point, all of which was public information and was well known to voters in advance of the election, I'm simply not convinced that American voters care about Trump's personal qualities. It's kind of funny to suggest that they were okay with him gloating about sexual assault, mocking disabled people, being accused of rape by multiple women, making racist statements on the campaign trail, and generally being a greedy real estate asshole that shits on a golden toilet, but NOW the truth about Trump comes out with some new allegation and everybody suddenly cares about character. Trump is not demonstrably MORE of a jerk now than he has ever been, in public and on national television, and that didn't stop him from getting elected. I hope you're right and the voters have suddenly gained a conscience that they won't abandon next year, but I'm not sold on it, and I don't like the whiff of Tortoise and the Hare around making too much of the polls in this case.
 

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People did not know how bad he would be if elected. All they knew about him was his show "The Apprentice" and "Make America Great Again!". Now people know better. He is a rage twittering nincompoop with a bad attitude.
 

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People did not know how bad he would be if elected. All they knew about him was his show "The Apprentice" and "Make America Great Again!". Now people know better. He is a rage twittering nincompoop with a bad attitude.

I don't know where you're getting this idea that his reputation has tanked so dramatically. He's about where Obama was in terms of approval at this point in his presidency, and the trend from week 1 is basically a straight line overall:

trump-obama-approval-ratings-infographic.jpg
 

Gun Nut

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People did not know how bad he would be if elected. All they knew about him was his show "The Apprentice" and "Make America Great Again!". Now people know better. He is a rage twittering nincompoop with a bad attitude.

I don't know where you're getting this idea that his reputation has tanked so dramatically. He's about where Obama was in terms of approval at this point in his presidency, and the trend from week 1 is basically a straight line overall:

View attachment 23924

tentatively granting that this chart represents any kind of defensible data.. it is showing that Obama lost 6 points over 32 months and Trump lost 27 points over 32 months.
"Tanked" is a pretty fair assessment of such a severe droppage of approval. If it isn't, then what on god's green earth would even be then?
 

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People did not know how bad he would be if elected. All they knew about him was his show "The Apprentice" and "Make America Great Again!". Now people know better. He is a rage twittering nincompoop with a bad attitude.

I don't know where you're getting this idea that his reputation has tanked so dramatically. He's about where Obama was in terms of approval at this point in his presidency, and the trend from week 1 is basically a straight line overall:

View attachment 23924

Well, if Trump can do what Obama did, he's in great shape. Obama's approve/disapprove was 7 points underwater at this time in 2011, got to 9 over by the first week of October and was still plus 8 by the first week of november 2012. And went up bigly after the election. Trump hasn't been on the plus side for one single day of his regrettable tenure.

Unfortunately for Trump... he's no Obama.
grump.jpg
 

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https://news.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-daily-obama-job-approval.aspx

Obama from 2014 had rising approval ratings. he had reasonably high ratings during to 2012 elections despite the GOP slash and burn attacks on him.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...ns-in-views-of-governments-role-and-of-trump/

As of 4-11-2019, men gave Trump a 44% approval rating, while women only gave Trump a 31% rating. Since women usually out number men at the voting booths, this spells trouble for the orange buffoon. Trumpo only has 16 months to turn this around.

And if he can stop shooting himself in the foot with moronic stunts.
 

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https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-ame...t-gender-gap-62-percent-of-women-say-they-are

In a new poll, a significant majority of American women who are registered to vote say they are not likely to support President Trump’s re-election effort in 2020, setting him up with a gender gap that may prove difficult to overcome.

In a June 1-2 Hill-HarrisX survey, 62 percent of female registered voters said they were unlikely to support Trump’s bid to obtain a second term. Fifty-three percent said they were very unlikely to back Trump while 9 percent said they were somewhat unlikely. Thirty-eight percent of women who participated said they were likely to back Trump.

---

He be toast. Burnt black toast left under the broiler too long. Wad that tine foil up and run it out to the trash can.
 

Koyaanisqatsi

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I don't know where you're getting this idea that his reputation has tanked so dramatically. He's about where Obama was in terms of approval at this point in his presidency, and the trend from week 1 is basically a straight line overall

Per usual, you're ironically not looking at why that is. Obama inherited one of the worst economic disasters in US history and right at that time in his Presidency he had several notable failures:

The most notable event in Obama's 11th quarter was probably the negotiations to raise the federal debt ceiling in late July and early August. Shortly after the agreement was reached, the stock market plummeted after Standard and Poor's downgraded the U.S. credit rating. Later, the government's jobs report showed no new net jobs were created in August, a sign the economy was still a long way from recovery. The president has been unsuccessful so far in getting Congress to pass the jobs bill he proposed in early September.
...
Americans' satisfaction with the direction of the country remains at historically low levels, and Americans clearly identify the economy and unemployment as the most important problems facing the United States. Thus, a second Obama term likely hinges on whether there are signs of economic progress in the coming months.

Trump has no comparable issues; indeed just the opposite if you listen to him. With the exception of trade annihilation fluctuations in the market and bonds imploding--which average voters know little about and therefore wouldn't be reflected in a gallup poll--both the economy and employment have been on a more-or-less steady incline for Trump's entire term (thanks to Obama, primarily). Just now we are hearing the fears of recession and bubbles and the like, yet that clearly isn't impacting the polls or those numbers would be down, not up.

So, the average voter (as reflected in poll respondents) is going on media and perceptions of how unsinkable is the Titanic and clearly not on looking forward to the trajectory and what lies ahead in the waters.
 

PyramidHead

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People did not know how bad he would be if elected. All they knew about him was his show "The Apprentice" and "Make America Great Again!". Now people know better. He is a rage twittering nincompoop with a bad attitude.

I don't know where you're getting this idea that his reputation has tanked so dramatically. He's about where Obama was in terms of approval at this point in his presidency, and the trend from week 1 is basically a straight line overall:

View attachment 23924

tentatively granting that this chart represents any kind of defensible data.. it is showing that Obama lost 6 points over 32 months and Trump lost 27 points over 32 months.
"Tanked" is a pretty fair assessment of such a severe droppage of approval. If it isn't, then what on god's green earth would even be then?

Pssst...

The blue line is Obama dude
 
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