Portland police halt minor traffic stops, citing disparity

[Metaphor]

I wonder what other laws can get the kybosh in the name of 'racial equity'?

Emphasis mine.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/portland-police-change-traffic-stop-search-procedures-78428906

PORTLAND, Ore. -- Police in Oregon's largest city are being advised to no longer pursue low-level traffic infractions — including expired plates and broken headlights — unless related to an immediate safety threat, Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler announced Tuesday.

In addition, if police do stop a driver they must receive recorded consent before searching the vehicle and clearly inform the person they have the right to refuse.
Wheeler said both changes are an attempt to refocus on immediate threats and are also occurring in response to data showing a a disproportionate impact on Black drivers for traffic stops and vehicle searches. While 6% of Portlanders are Black, he said they account for 18% of traffic stops in the city.

Is there evidence that the city is discriminating against black people in traffic stops? If there is, the city should direct its officers to stop discriminating.

“The goal of these two changes is to make our safety safer and more equitable,” Wheeler said.

I've often wanted to make my safety safer.

...
Wheeler noted these changes are also being done in part because of the police bureau's limited staffing and resources.

“Our staffing on the streets is inadequate,” Wheeler said.
Currently the police bureau, which is struggling to find its grounding in the liberal city, is at its lowest staffing in decades — the department is around 150 officers short of “authorized strength".
In the past nine months, the department has experienced a rapid turnover with more than 120 officers having left, many citing low morale and burnout from racial justice protests that would end in confrontation and plumes of teargas.

The situation reached a breaking point last week when 50 police officers, who serve on a specialized crowd-control unit and respond to Portland’s ongoing protests, resigned en masse from the squad, but not the department.
The unit was on the frontlines of nightly racial justice protests, following the murder of George Floyd and were tasked with dispersing groups after a riot was declared. Officers often times were met with fireworks, rocks and glass bottles being thrown at them.

...Gun violence has spilled over into this year, with at least 42 homicides so far. If nothing changes, Portland will surpass its all-time record for homicides of 70 set in 1987, when the city was in the midst of a gang siege.

Police estimate half of Portland’s more than 500 shootings this year, which have injured more than 140 people, are gang-related. In May, Wheeler warned that perpetrators are being told by gangs to shoot someone within 30 days or be shot and that people are traveling from other states to engage in violence in the Rose City.

Oh, it isn't Portland's fault then--there isn't any connection between Portland defunding police and violent outsiders being drawn to the city.

...
Despite police pleas for more personnel, city leaders slashed $27 million from the police budget last year — $11 million due to the pandemic-caused budget crisis and $15 million amid calls to defund the police — vowing to devote money to community groups working to curb gun violence.

This is the future liberals want.

 

[Trausti]

How do “community groups” curb gun violence? Is it more effective than arresting, prosecuting, and imprisoning offenders? Doubtful.

 

[laughing dog]

Is there evidence that the city is discriminating against black people in traffic stops?

Unless you have evidence that blacks are more likely to engage in behavior that generates a traffic stop than people of other races, one would think "6% of Portlanders are Black, he said they account for 18% of traffic stops in the city. " would count as evidence.

If there is, the city should direct its officers to stop discriminating.

LOL - just like that "stop discriminating" and the discrimination stops. Did it even cross your mind that the police officers may not be aware of their bias?

 

[Trausti]

Is there evidence that the city is discriminating against black people in traffic stops?

Unless you have evidence that blacks are more likely to engage in behavior that generates a traffic stop than people of other races, one would think "6% of Portlanders are Black, he said they account for 18% of traffic stops in the city. " would count as evidence.

If there is, the city should direct its officers to stop discriminating.

LOL - just like that "stop discriminating" and the discrimination stops. Did it even cross your mind that the police officers may not be aware of their bias?

Maybe Black people really are more likely to be bad drivers?

Black fatalities, as a proportion of all fatalities, increased in most months from March to December. The greatest increase occurred in June (20% [black share in 2020] versus 15% [in 2019]). Total estimated Non-Hispanic Black fatalities increased by 23 percent from 2019 to 2020.

Early Estimates of Motor Vehicle Traffic Fatalities and Fatality Rate by Sub-Categories in 2020

 

[untermensche]

You can set up cameras and radar and still ticket people for speeding and running red lights and stop signs.

Just no trigger happy cop giving the ticket.

 

[laughing dog]

Unless you have evidence that blacks are more likely to engage in behavior that generates a traffic stop than people of other races, one would think "6% of Portlanders are Black, he said they account for 18% of traffic stops in the city. " would count as evidence.
LOL - just like that "stop discriminating" and the discrimination stops. Did it even cross your mind that the police officers may not be aware of their bias?

Maybe Black people really are more likely to be bad drivers?

Black fatalities, as a proportion of all fatalities, increased in most months from March to December. The greatest increase occurred in June (20% [black share in 2020] versus 15% [in 2019]). Total estimated Non-Hispanic Black fatalities increased by 23 percent from 2019 to 2020.

Early Estimates of Motor Vehicle Traffic Fatalities and Fatality Rate by Sub-Categories in 2020

The data in your link shows that in 2019, the black share of monthly fatalities from vehicle crashes ranged from 15% to 19% while the share of whites ranged from 76% to 80%and that in 2020, the black share range rose to 19% to 21% while the white share range was 74% to 78%. If your data shows anything, it shows that blacks are less likely to be poor drivers than whites.

Plus, having expired plates or broken headlight has nothing to do with driving ability.

 

[Metaphor]

Unless you have evidence that blacks are more likely to engage in behavior that generates a traffic stop than people of other races

The evidence that they commit more traffic violations is that they are stopped more often for traffic violations. Why is it reasonable to believe, based on that fact alone, that the stopping is due to police officer bias, but it is not reasonable to believe, based on that fact alone, that they engage in more traffic violations?

LOL - just like that "stop discriminating" and the discrimination stops. Did it even cross your mind that the police officers may not be aware of their bias?

It crossed my mind that if you think your officers are discriminating, you should look for corroborating evidence of the discrimination and if you find it, fucking well address that discrimination, not change the laws that were there for a reason.

 

[Metaphor]

The data in your link shows that in 2019, the black share of monthly fatalities from vehicle crashes ranged from 15% to 19% while the share of whites ranged from 76% to 80%and that in 2020, the black share range rose to 19% to 21% while the white share range was 74% to 78%. If your data shows anything, it shows that blacks are less likely to be poor drivers than whites.

How does the data show that?

 

[laughing dog]

Unless you have evidence that blacks are more likely to engage in behavior that generates a traffic stop than people of other races

The evidence that they commit more traffic violations is that they are stopped more often for traffic violations. Why is it reasonable to believe, based on that fact alone, that the stopping is due to police officer bias, but it is not reasonable to believe, based on that fact alone, that they engage in more traffic violations?

If you don't have any evidence that black people are more likely to violate traffic laws than people of other races, a simple no would have answered my question. And why is it reasonable to assume that black people must be more prone to violate traffic laws?

It crossed my mind that if you think your officers are discriminating, you should look for corroborating evidence of the discrimination and if you find it, fucking well address that discrimination, not change the laws that were there for a reason.

Again, a simple no would have answered my question. No one is changing any laws in your OP - they are choosing to not enforce them at this time.

Apparently it did not cross your mind that this policy might very well be a stop gap measure until something more effective can be successfully implemented or that it is determined there is no discrimination. Especially since your linked article also mentions that this policy is also due to a reduction in the number of police officers.

 

[laughing dog]

The data in your link shows that in 2019, the black share of monthly fatalities from vehicle crashes ranged from 15% to 19% while the share of whites ranged from 76% to 80%and that in 2020, the black share range rose to 19% to 21% while the white share range was 74% to 78%. If your data shows anything, it shows that blacks are less likely to be poor drivers than whites.

How does the data show that?

Try reading and thinking more carefully. Trausti trotted out this data to show that blacks are worse drivers. But the only data in the link by race is fatalities from crashes. And that data shows that blacks are, at most, 20% of those fatalities. If that data shows anything about driving ability (and I don't think it does, but apparently Trausti does), it shows that whites are worse drivers than blacks.

 

[Metaphor]

If you don't have any evidence that black people are more likely to violate traffic laws than people of other races,

On the contrary, I already explained the evidence: black people are three times more likely to be stopped for traffic violations than white people.

a simple no would have answered my question. And why is it reasonable to assume that black people must be more prone to violate traffic laws?

There could be many of a million different influences. Black people have less income and wealth than white people in America, and people with lower economic means are bound to be more likely to not fix things on their car that need fixing. Blacks are more likely to commit legal offenses than white people, and a traffic violation is a legal offense. The black population has a younger age profile than the white population, and perhaps younger people commit more traffic violations (I suspect they do, especially speeding).

Why is it reasonable for you to assume that the black-white traffic violation difference is due to cop bias?

Apparently it did not cross your mind that this policy might very well be a stop gap measure until something more effective can be successfully implemented or that it is determined there is no discrimination. Especially since your linked article also mentions that this policy is also due to a reduction in the number of police officers.

Yes - police officers are quitting because Portland has let the lunatics run the asylum. Police officers are quitting because the city of Portland treats them like shit. Police officers are quitting because of the relentless assaults on their character--like the assumption that they are biased against black people when handing out traffic violations.

You can't see your own prejudice, laughing dog, even when it's staring you in the face.

 

[Metaphor]

The data in your link shows that in 2019, the black share of monthly fatalities from vehicle crashes ranged from 15% to 19% while the share of whites ranged from 76% to 80%and that in 2020, the black share range rose to 19% to 21% while the white share range was 74% to 78%. If your data shows anything, it shows that blacks are less likely to be poor drivers than whites.

How does the data show that?

Try reading and thinking more carefully. Trausti trotted out this data to show that blacks are worse drivers. But the only data in the link by race is fatalities from crashes. And that data shows that blacks are, at most, 20% of those fatalities. If that data shows anything about driving ability (and I don't think it does, but apparently Trausti does), it shows that whites are worse drivers than blacks.

Nope. You haven't connected the dots. How does the data show that whites are worse drivers? Step me through it, because I cannot figure it.

Blacks die from road fatalities disproportionately to their share of the general population. It seems like that implies they get into more traffic accidents and/or are less likely to be restrained properly when they get in the accidents. How you figure this implies white drivers are worse, I cannot figure.

 

[fromderinside]

Try reading and thinking more carefully. Trausti trotted out this data to show that blacks are worse drivers. But the only data in the link by race is fatalities from crashes. And that data shows that blacks are, at most, 20% of those fatalities. If that data shows anything about driving ability (and I don't think it does, but apparently Trausti does), it shows that whites are worse drivers than blacks.

Nope. You haven't connected the dots. How does the data show that whites are worse drivers? Step me through it, because I cannot figure it.

Blacks die from road fatalities disproportionately to their share of the general population. It seems like that implies they get into more traffic accidents and/or are less likely to be restrained properly when they get in the accidents. How you figure this implies white drivers are worse, I cannot figure.

Well the databases haven't been adjusted for education, poverty, or average age and conditions of cars or road ways.

So I claim any 'conclusion' is bloviating from prejudice.

 

[Toni]

On the contrary, I already explained the evidence: black people are three times more likely to be stopped for traffic violations than white people.



There could be many of a million different influences. Black people have less income and wealth than white people in America, and people with lower economic means are bound to be more likely to not fix things on their car that need fixing. Blacks are more likely to commit legal offenses than white people, and a traffic violation is a legal offense. The black population has a younger age profile than the white population, and perhaps younger people commit more traffic violations (I suspect they do, especially speeding).

Why is it reasonable for you to assume that the black-white traffic violation difference is due to cop bias?

Apparently it did not cross your mind that this policy might very well be a stop gap measure until something more effective can be successfully implemented or that it is determined there is no discrimination. Especially since your linked article also mentions that this policy is also due to a reduction in the number of police officers.

Yes - police officers are quitting because Portland has let the lunatics run the asylum. Police officers are quitting because the city of Portland treats them like shit. Police officers are quitting because of the relentless assaults on their character--like the assumption that they are biased against black people when handing out traffic violations.

You can't see your own prejudice, laughing dog, even when it's staring you in the face.

Black people in the US are more likely to be arrested compared with white people for the same or similar offenses.

Black people in the US are much more likely to be pulled over for minor traffic infractions than white people are and are more likely to be searched than are white people.

https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publ...vers-more-likely-to-be-stopped-by-police.html

https://www.sc.edu/uofsc/posts/2020/06/racial_disparities_traffic_stops.php#.YNqzIuhKi1s

https://openpolicing.stanford.edu/findings/


It's really interesting to see you call another poster prejudiced. Especially in light of your very emotional characterizations of the trials and tribulations of police in Portland. Where you've never been. But I'm sure that Fox has told you all about it.

 

[Metaphor]

Black people in the US are much more likely to be pulled over for minor traffic infractions than white people are and are more likely to be searched than are white people.

https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2020/may/black-drivers-more-likely-to-be-stopped-by-police.html

Does not evidence bias. Your link says:

black drivers were about 20 percent more likely to be stopped than white drivers relative to their share of the residential population.

Note that does not say that "relative to their share of committing traffic offenses", which still wouldn't be proof of cop bias but it isn't even that.

The study also found that once stopped, black drivers were searched about 1.5 to 2 times as often as white drivers, while they were less likely to be carrying drugs, guns, or other illegal contraband compared to their white peers.

This part does require explanation, but the immediate prejudice that it's "cop bias against blacks" is not a sufficient answer. The first thing I would do is ask: why do cops search cars? What reasons would they give if asked why they searched a car? Do cops have the wrong calibration of what is a good reason to search a car?

https://www.sc.edu/uofsc/posts/2020/06/racial_disparities_traffic_stops.php#.YNqzIuhKi1s

More of the same. It says blacks are more likely to be stopped, but it doesn't articulate the reasons why people are stopped. Saying "blacks are stopped more often" is useless - I've already believed the Portland data that they are stopped more often.

https://openpolicing.stanford.edu/findings/

More of the same. Nothing in those links indicate that the reason blacks are stopped more often is because of cop bias (the search data is different).

It's really interesting to see you call another poster prejudiced. Especially in light of your very emotional characterizations of the trials and tribulations of police in Portland. Where you've never been. But I'm sure that Fox has told you all about it.

Yeah, I'm not interested in your claims of epistemological advantage, nor your vapid, US-centred claim that I watch Fox news, a claim which is both false and boring.

 

[Toni]

[/URL]Does not evidence bias. Your link says:



Note that does not say that "relative to their share of committing traffic offenses", which still wouldn't be proof of cop bias but it isn't even that.

The study also found that once stopped, black drivers were searched about 1.5 to 2 times as often as white drivers, while they were less likely to be carrying drugs, guns, or other illegal contraband compared to their white peers.

This part does require explanation, but the immediate prejudice that it's "cop bias against blacks" is not a sufficient answer. The first thing I would do is ask: why do cops search cars? What reasons would they give if asked why they searched a car? Do cops have the wrong calibration of what is a good reason to search a car?

https://www.sc.edu/uofsc/posts/2020/06/racial_disparities_traffic_stops.php#.YNqzIuhKi1s

More of the same. It says blacks are more likely to be stopped, but it doesn't articulate the reasons why people are stopped. Saying "blacks are stopped more often" is useless - I've already believed the Portland data that they are stopped more often.

https://openpolicing.stanford.edu/findings/

More of the same. Nothing in those links indicate that the reason blacks are stopped more often is because of cop bias (the search data is different).

It's really interesting to see you call another poster prejudiced. Especially in light of your very emotional characterizations of the trials and tribulations of police in Portland. Where you've never been. But I'm sure that Fox has told you all about it.

Yeah, I'm not interested in your claims of epistemological advantage, nor your vapid, US-centred claim that I watch Fox news, a claim which is both false and boring.

The NYY piece relied on the Stanford Study. It says so right here:
//www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2020/may/black-drivers-more-likely-to-be-stopped-by-police.html

From the very first paragraph:

A new study, undertaken by Ravi Shroff, an assistant professor holding joint appointments at NYU Steinhardt and NYU CUSP, and his colleagues at the Stanford Open Policing Project, found that in a dataset of nearly 100 million traffic stops across the United States, black drivers were about 20 percent more likely to be stopped than white drivers relative to their share of the residential population.

From the Stanford study https://openpolicing.stanford.edu/findings/

Data from 21 state patrol agencies and 29 municipal police departments, comprising nearly 100 million traffic stops, are sufficiently detailed to facilitate rigorous statistical analysis. The result? The project has found significant racial disparities in policing. These disparities can occur for many reasons: differences in driving behavior, to name one. But, in some cases, we find evidence that bias also plays a role

Yeah, I'm not interested in your claims of epistemological advantage, nor your vapid, US-centred claim that I watch Fox news, a claim which is both false and boring.

Apparently also not interested in actually reading with any degree of care. I agree that Fox news is false and boring.

 

[Toni]

On the contrary, I already explained the evidence: black people are three times more likely to be stopped for traffic violations than white people.



There could be many of a million different influences. Black people have less income and wealth than white people in America, and people with lower economic means are bound to be more likely to not fix things on their car that need fixing. Blacks are more likely to commit legal offenses than white people, and a traffic violation is a legal offense. The black population has a younger age profile than the white population, and perhaps younger people commit more traffic violations (I suspect they do, especially speeding).

Why is it reasonable for you to assume that the black-white traffic violation difference is due to cop bias?

Numerous studies of policing have shown that there is police bias in traffic stops and other policing.

Black people are more likely to be ARRESTED, TRIED AND CONVICTED than white people which is different than being more likely to commit legal offenses.

Yes - police officers are quitting because Portland has let the lunatics run the asylum. Police officers are quitting because the city of Portland treats them like shit. Police officers are quitting because of the relentless assaults on their character--like the assumption that they are biased against black people when handing out traffic violations.

Well, lucky police officers who can quit their job and no longer be subjected to relentless assaults on their character. Makes you wonder why black people don't just quit being black, don't it?

You can't see your own prejudice, laughing dog, even when it's staring you in the face.

It must be hard to see clearly with that light bouncing off the mirror directly into your eye.

 

[Politesse]

Why were the police making all these completely superfluous traffic stops to begin with? I don't recall assenting to being detained without a pressing reason.

 

[Metaphor]

Apparently also not interested in actually reading with any degree of care.

I read each link you provided. It is apparent that you don't read anything I write with any degree of care.

Portland cited the existence of the disparity as a reason to stop policing. It is no good reason at all. The existence of the traffic stop disparity does not prove cops are biased.

 

[Metaphor]

Why were the police making all these completely superfluous traffic stops to begin with? I don't recall assenting to being detained without a pressing reason.

Most countries with roads and cars tend to police them.